Are there any former Orthodox out there who are now RC?

[Joanna1999]

I posted the this question yesterday, and with one exception got a bunch of suggestions that I become Byzantine Catholic. This totally missed the point. Also, as I forgot to post a title, the administrator designated one, “Can an Orthodox become a Roman Catholic?”, which obviously I know I can, but this title might have led to the responses I received.
What I’m asking for is are there any forums or people out there who were once Orthodox and are now RC.
I have no special interest in becoming Byzantine Catholic.
Thanks,
J

I am an Orthodox Christian who started attending a Roman Catholic church because there is not a suitable Orthodox church for me to attend. The priest knows my situation and allows me to partake of the sacraments of the Eucharist and confession.

Partaking of RC sacraments puts me in a state of self-excommunication from the Orthodox Church. My parish priest has not pressured me to convert, but if I did so I would obviously need catechism classes beforehand because I do not know all the ins and outs of the faith. In fact, all I know is what I’ve seen at the church here: Christ preached in church and lived in life, and more powerfully than anywhere else I’ve worshipped.

I don’t know a single other soul in my situation. Is there a forum for converts to Catholicism? It would be VERY helpful to talk specifically to Orthodox converts. Some Orthodox are very angry with me and tell me my salvation is at risk.

---

 

[Eucharisted]

I’m a convert from atheism, and, while my understanding of Orthodoxy is limited, I can help in some way…I hope.

There is a thread for converts on CAF (Not an Orthodox specific one, though, sorry)

The Orthodox Church appears to have a subtle anti-Catholic air to it, so I’ve found on Orthodox sites and in hearing about Orthodox converts. Converts are usually threatened their salvation would be in jeopardy if they left the Orthodox Church. Catholics are usually jabbed at on Orthodox sites, even when there is not a shread of Catholicism being discussed. I know this might offend you, but it’s what I’ve found. Not trying to generalize, though.

 

[Joanna1999]

Thank you for your response. I’ll investigate the website and also your conversion story – thanks for including that link.
No, your description of the Orthodox response is sadly accurate. I’ve been told already that I am separating myself from Christ and that my salvation is in jeopardy. They aren’t all like that, but this element is quite prominent on the Orthodox forum I looked at. Oh, the joys of Christina brotherhood!

 

[JohnVIII]

I joined the Orthodox Church in 1985. I converted to the Roman Catholic Church about seven years ago. I returned to the Orthodox Church, but technically I’m still Roman Catholic, because my last communion was within the Roman Catholic Church. It is generally true what you said about the Orthodox, that if you leave the Church they say you may lose eternal salvation. But if you go back in time, to a time when the Roman Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church were one and the same Church I think you’ll find that Rome said very much the same thing about the consequences of leaving the Church. (Actually you don’t have to go back any further than a first Vatican Council for this). There are many issues, some positive and some negative, in which you will find that the Roman Catholic Church has updated the church, so to speak, to more modern times; whereas the Orthodox Church has endeavored to remain in every respect like the original Catholic Church.

Clearly there is something about the Roman Catholic Church that makes it attractive to you. You must go where your heart and your conscience tells you that you must go - and as for your eternal salvation, staying in a Church that you don’t truly believe in will not be a healthy thing for your eternal salvation either! Just remember, when someone told you that you might lose your eternal salvation they were NOT speaking infallibly!

If you love God and pursued His grace He will not refuse his mercy.

Best wishes in Christ!

 

[Joseph_L_Varga]

Joanna, just a quick post as I’m on my way to work. Your best bet in English language websites could be still here, in the non-Catholic religions and Eastern Catholicism sections. There are a number of people posting here who are converts from Eastern (some Oriental) Orthodoxy, others who are reverts who belonged to the EO Church for 15-20 years before reverting to Catholicism. Some posters are Timothy Capps, samcarter14, mardukm. If you go to their personal profile and click “find all posts by…”, that should lead you to threads that discuss Orthodox-Catholic issues.

A gentleman (he is not a poster here as far as I know) who grew up Greek Orthodox is James Likoudis. His homepage is something like credo.stormloader.com, try googling “James Likoudis homepage”. He is a prolific writer, I plan buying his books. Also, check out the Fatima Family Apostolate website:
fatimafamily.org/
and there Fr. Robert J. Fox’s book Light from the East - Miracles of our Lady of Soufanieh. And Soufanieh homepage, I think something like soufanieh.com. A historic figure is St. Josaphat Kuncevich, who lived in the 17th century Ukraine, martyr whose body was found incorrupt some days after he was killed and thrown into a river, he was a convert from Eastern Orthodoxy. Just google his name, you should find his biography online somewhere.

 

[wynd]

Thank you for your response. I’ll investigate the website and also your conversion story – thanks for including that link.
No, your description of the Orthodox response is sadly accurate. I’ve been told already that I am separating myself from Christ and that my salvation is in jeopardy. They aren’t all like that, but this element is quite prominent on the Orthodox forum I looked at. Oh, the joys of Christina brotherhood!

What would a Catholic be told if he left the Catholic Church for Orthodoxy? I’m sure no one would say it was “just as good.”

 

[bpbasilphx]

A historic figure is St. Josaphat Kuncevich, who lived in the 17th century Ukraine, martyr whose body was found incorrupt some days after he was killed and thrown into a river, he was a convert from Eastern Orthodoxy.

He was born, baptized, and raised Ukrainian Catholic, not Orthodox.

 

[Joseph_L_Varga]

saints.sqpn.com/saintj61.htm

st-josaphat.com/Josaphat.htm

americancatholic.org/Features/SaintOfDay/default.asp?id=1197

catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=71

newadvent.org/cathen/08503b.htm

According to these resources, St. Josaphat was born in 1580 or 1584, and initially was Ruthenian Orthodox. Then, the Union of Brest took place in 1596, when part of the Ruthenian Orthodox Church came into union with Rome. After that, St. Josaphat could have gone either way, accepting or rejecting the union. What made him accept the union was his studies under the guidance of some Jesuit (Catholic) priests.

 

[Joseph_L_Varga]

Joanna, something that’s probably relevant to your situation is the Agreement of Balamand (1993):

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balamand_declaration

According to this agreement, signed by a number of EO Churches and the RC Church, we are not seeking to proselytize (convert) the faithful of each other’s churches anymore, because our hopes are in the reunion of our churches and all their faithful sometime in the future. So, I guess the Catholic priests’ attitude reflects this agreement: they provide pastoral care and the Sacraments to you, but they don’t try to convert you because that would contradict what the Catholic Church promised at Balamand. From a Catholic perspective, you are probably fine the way you are, being EO, and you can partake in the Sacraments in the Catholic Church, no need to convert. I don’t know whether your EO Church signed the agreement of Balamand, you can check out the list of participants (I think they all signed) at the wikipedia article.

 

[jemfinch]

Something to note is that if you are received into the Church, and wish to practice as a Latin Catholic, you will almost certainly need at the same time to submit a request for a change of rite, since your default/natural rite would be the Eastern Rite which corresponds to the particular Orthodox Church you’re coming from.

For instance, even if a Latin Catholic priest receives an Antiochian Orthodox person into the Catholic Church, that person would naturally belong to the Melkite Catholic Church, and would need to file for a change of rite to the Latin Church if he or she wishes to fully be a Latin Catholic. The same applies in reverse: if a Melkite Catholic priest were to receive a Protestant (like myself) into the Church, that person (e.g., me) would have to request a change of rite to actually be Melkite.

Of course, it’s pretty much a technicality about your canonical legal status within the Church (for instance, whether you’re bound by the Latin Code of Canon, or by the laws of your particular Church): as a Catholic, you are free to worship in Mass or Divine Liturgy (of any particular Catholic Church, regardless of rite. We are in union with each other! I found myself (a Latin Catholic received into the Church by a Melkite Catholic priest in the sacrament of Chrismation) attending the Melkite Divine Liturgy several times throughout the year, simply because I enjoy it

Jeremy

 

[ricko]

What would a Catholic be told if he left the Catholic Church for Orthodoxy? I’m sure no one would say it was “just as good.”

Well no, but I don’t think any Catholic would raise a ruckus about it either.

I’m curious. As a Catholic I look upon the Orthodox as our close brothers and I have no hard feelings toward them at all. I believe most other Catholics feel this way.

However, I cannot say the same toward the Orthodox. I have seen posts by several Orthodox that show they have a strong dislike of the Catholic Church.

I’m puzzled. Why should this be?

 

[jemfinch]

From a Catholic perspective, you are probably fine the way you are, being EO, and you can partake in the Sacraments in the Catholic Church, no need to convert.

I wouldn’t go that far: as long as Catholic and Orthodox remain separate, an Orthodox is still best off belonging to the Church in which the fullness of the truth is taught, and that’s the Catholic Church.

Just because each Church agreed not to proselytize the other’s members in order to facilitate reunification doesn’t mean that for the individual Orthodox it’s not better to become Catholic.

Jeremy

 

[samcarter14]

What would a Catholic be told if he left the Catholic Church for Orthodoxy? I’m sure no one would say it was “just as good.”

When I left the Catholic church to become Orthodox, my Roman Catholic family was saddened, but were advised by their priest that the Orthodox Church has valid sacraments (in the eyes of Rome). So that laid to rest their fears that our children would be denied proper sacraments.

The Catholic Church will administer Holy Communion to any Orthodox Christian who approaches Her. However, the Orthodox Church will not administer Holy Communion to a Catholic asking the same.

 

[jemfinch]

Well no, but I don’t think any Catholic would raise a ruckus about it either.

A ruckus? Maybe not, but I would definitely advise against it.

I’m curious. As a Catholic I look upon the Orthodox as our close brothers and I have no hard feelings toward them at all. I believe most other Catholics feel this way.

I feel that way as well.

However, I cannot say the same toward the Orthodox. I have seen posts by several Orthodox that show they have a strong dislike of the Catholic Church.

I’m puzzled. Why should this be?

Catholic crusaders sacked Constantinople. They desecrated and defiled the Churches there, stealing holy artifacts. That’s not the sort of thing that one forgets quickly. Plus, there’s a dissatisfaction by the Orthodox that the Catholic Church has continued to hold councils, etc. at which the Orthodox were not present.

Jeremy

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

A Plus, there’s a dissatisfaction by the Orthodox that the Catholic Church has continued to hold councils, etc. at which the Orthodox were not present.

Jeremy

it is hard to hold a council with those that will not talk to you. Now i do not know if the Bishops of the EO were invited to these councils ( I would say they were not) I think that the council ans all ofus of both traditions would have been better served if they had been there.

 

[ricko]

When I left the Catholic church to become Orthodox, my Roman Catholic family was saddened, but were advised by their priest that the Orthodox Church has valid sacraments (in the eyes of Rome). So that laid to rest their fears that our children would be denied proper sacraments.

The Catholic Church will administer Holy Communion to any Orthodox Christian who approaches Her. However, the Orthodox Church will not administer Holy Communion to a Catholic asking the same.

Are you sure that statement in bold is correct? I’ve read several times that Catholics may go to Holy Communion at an Orthodox church if a Catholic Church is not near by. The articles I read never said anything about the Orthodox refusing Communion to a Catholic.

 

[Joseph_L_Varga]

I wouldn’t go that far: as long as Catholic and Orthodox remain separate, an Orthodox is still best off belonging to the Church in which the fullness of the truth is taught, and that’s the Catholic Church.

Just because each Church agreed not to proselytize the other’s members in order to facilitate reunification doesn’t mean that for the individual Orthodox it’s not better to become Catholic.

Jeremy

Jeremy, I see your point and I agree with your statements. I’m sorry if I came across sounding as if everything is fine with the EO Church in my opinion. I love the EO Church, the EO Divine Liturgy, and their saints, but I know they don’t have the fullness of truth and they teach some things that should be classified as doctrinal errors. So, this creates such a difficult situation, when you meet an EO brother or sister. You don’t want to convert them because you want to be obedient to what the Catholic Church promised at Balamand, but at the same time you know they would be better off in the Catholic Church. That’s my dilemma and I don’t know how to handle it.

 

[jemfinch]

Are you sure that statement in bold is correct? I’ve read several times that Catholics may go to Holy Communion at an Orthodox church if a Catholic Church is not near by.

We can, according to our Church. But the statements of our Church are not necessarily upheld by Orthodox bishops, who have (generally) forbidden all non-Orthodox, including Catholics, to receive the Eucharist in an Orthodox Church.

The articles I read never said anything about the Orthodox refusing Communion to a Catholic.

The same applies in reverse, as well; while the Catholic Church allows Orthodox to receive the Eucharist at a Catholic Mass, the Orthodox (again, in general) will not allow their own to receive the Eucharist anywhere but the Orthodox Divine Liturgy.

Jeremy

 

[Joanna1999]

I’ve got no intention of tying myself in such knots. I’m also sure my parish priest would not wish to tie me in such knots either, and if I asked would simply offer me catechism and, if I later decided to go ahead and become RC, then reception into the Roman Catholic Church.
J

For instance, even if a Latin Catholic priest receives an Antiochian Orthodox person into the Catholic Church, that person would naturally belong to the Melkite Catholic Church, and would need to file for a change of rite to the Latin Church if he or she wishes to fully be a Latin Catholic. The same applies in reverse: if a Melkite Catholic priest were to receive a Protestant (like myself) into the Church, that person (e.g., me) would have to request a change of rite to actually be Melkite.

 

[JohnVIII]

I wouldn’t go that far: as long as Catholic and Orthodox remain separate, an Orthodox is still best off belonging to the Church in which the fullness of the truth is taught, and that’s the Catholic Church.

Just because each Church agreed not to proselytize the other’s members in order to facilitate reunification doesn’t mean that for the individual Orthodox it’s not better to become Catholic.

Jeremy

“the Church in which the fullness of the truth is taught”? Did you used to be a Mormon? I thought they were the ones who said they hold the fullness of the truth. Personally I think it’s the Coptic Church that holds the fullness of the truth, that means that neither Orthodox nor Catholic nor even Mormons have the fullness. I think I will stay with the Orthodox, because I’m wish to gamble my salvation on a Church that has only half of the truth; I figure that if I am the condemned instead of the condemner I can then kiss your hand and thank you for the salvation gave me!

Kissing your hand in Christ!
-JohnVIII