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Subrosa
Guest
Here’s a website with very early christian documents. Some written about the time of Jesus.odyssey.lib.duke.edu/papyrus/texts/religious-aspects.html
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Subrosa
Guest
Here’s a website where you can buy a Septuagint - the oldest existing Old Testament. $40!
septuagint.com/introduction.htm
Be All That You Can Be
septuagint.com/introduction.htm
Be All That You Can Be
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dranzal
Guest
This is such an important question. Because of many Christians (particularly Catholic) lack of knowledge of their own faith, they are easy targets for muslims. This is one of their initial doubt-inducing trap questions. If you can answer it with any degree of knowledge, they can’t hook you. However, if you have no answer, they will press on with more probing, equally distorted questions.
The following is from Chapter 9 of “Answering Islam: The Crescent in the Light of the Cross” by Norman L. Geisler & Abdul Saleeb. Let me preface this with the anticipated muslim response…“that book is a joke; nothing in it is accurate; etc”. I know this from experience. However, like they say on Fox News, “we report…you decide”.
On Perfect Preservation (of the text)…
Muslim scholars point out that, in contrast to other holy books, “the Holy Quran is the only divinely revealed scripture in the history of mankind which has been preserved to the present time in its exact original form.” … This unprecedented and unparalleled marvel of perfect preservation is taken by muslims as a sign of God’s supernatural intervention.
While it is true that the present Quran is generally a perfect copy of the seventh century Uthmanic recension, it is not true that this is exactly the way it came from Muhammad. (The actual discussion of this in the book is quite long).
The so-called Satanic Verses illustrate another change in the original text. According to one version of these verses Muhammad had an early revelation in Mecca, which allowed intercession to certain idols. Some time after this Muhammad received another revelation canceling the last three lines (verses) and substituting what we now find in 53:21-23, which omits the part about interceding to these pagan gods. According to Watt, both versions had been recited publicly. Muhammad’s explanation was that Satan had deceived him and inserted the false verses without his knowing it.
Back to my own comments…
I pray that more Catholics who are questioned by Muslims but have no answer would come to this site and get the answers. Sadly, my personal experience is my brother. He has been Muslim for a few years now and this was one of the first chinks in his armor.
It is very difficult to “debate” (argue) with muslims since they base the entire argument on the divine source of their book vs. the corruption of ours. If you don’t agree with them, it is because the Bible is so corrupted and so forth.
To the initial questioner and any other Catholics in similar circumstances, please continue to investigate deeply. Islam has lots of pseudo-powerful propaganda style trap questions for you.
And everyone please pray for the conversion of Islam.
God bless you.
The following is from Chapter 9 of “Answering Islam: The Crescent in the Light of the Cross” by Norman L. Geisler & Abdul Saleeb. Let me preface this with the anticipated muslim response…“that book is a joke; nothing in it is accurate; etc”. I know this from experience. However, like they say on Fox News, “we report…you decide”.
On Perfect Preservation (of the text)…
Muslim scholars point out that, in contrast to other holy books, “the Holy Quran is the only divinely revealed scripture in the history of mankind which has been preserved to the present time in its exact original form.” … This unprecedented and unparalleled marvel of perfect preservation is taken by muslims as a sign of God’s supernatural intervention.
While it is true that the present Quran is generally a perfect copy of the seventh century Uthmanic recension, it is not true that this is exactly the way it came from Muhammad. (The actual discussion of this in the book is quite long).
The so-called Satanic Verses illustrate another change in the original text. According to one version of these verses Muhammad had an early revelation in Mecca, which allowed intercession to certain idols. Some time after this Muhammad received another revelation canceling the last three lines (verses) and substituting what we now find in 53:21-23, which omits the part about interceding to these pagan gods. According to Watt, both versions had been recited publicly. Muhammad’s explanation was that Satan had deceived him and inserted the false verses without his knowing it.
Back to my own comments…
I pray that more Catholics who are questioned by Muslims but have no answer would come to this site and get the answers. Sadly, my personal experience is my brother. He has been Muslim for a few years now and this was one of the first chinks in his armor.
It is very difficult to “debate” (argue) with muslims since they base the entire argument on the divine source of their book vs. the corruption of ours. If you don’t agree with them, it is because the Bible is so corrupted and so forth.
To the initial questioner and any other Catholics in similar circumstances, please continue to investigate deeply. Islam has lots of pseudo-powerful propaganda style trap questions for you.
And everyone please pray for the conversion of Islam.
God bless you.
G
Gottle_of_Geer
Guest
In that case, what are they doing quoting from a book they consider corrupt ? If the Gospels are corrupt, maybe the passages which they think should cause problems for Christians, are corrupt 
And if the Bible is corrupt - maybe the verses they say mention or prophesy Mohammed are among these corruptions They need to decide what arguments they mean to use against the Bible and Christian belief
IMHO, Protestants seem to make much more effort to help Christians to evangelise Muslims, and to meet their arguments - I could count the Catholic books of this sort that I have come across on the fingers of one hand
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dranzal
Guest
Gottle of Geer said:## In that case, what are they doing quoting from a book they consider corrupt ? If the Gospels are corrupt, maybe the passages which they think should cause problems for Christians, are corrupt
And if the Bible is corrupt - maybe the verses they say mention or prophesy Mohammed are among these corruptions
They need to decide what arguments they mean to use against the Bible and Christian belief
IMHO, Protestants seem to make much more effort to help Christians to evangelise Muslims, and to meet their arguments - I could count the Catholic books of this sort that I have come across on the fingers of one hand
You are right, of course. They don’t really concern themselves with whether or not their argument is valid. They are only interested in its success. A Christian well versed enough in his bible and faith to see through the trap won’t fall victim to their argument. One who is not well versed won’t even see the trap.
This is why it is so difficult to debate them. They can always fall back on two things. First, our bible is corrupt. Second any copy of the Quran not in Arabic is corrupt. Therefore, any book we would try to use for debate is corrupt.
One example is that they trace their roots to Ishmael. As Abraham’s first born, they argue, he got the birthright. Where the Bible states that the birthright went to Isaac, Abraham’s only son within the confines of marriage, the Bible is corrupt.
Another is any statement about the divinity of Jesus. The ones where He prays to the Father are not corrupt. The ones where He calls Himself “I Am” and so forth are corrupt.
Does it make sense? No. Do they care? No. They weren’t going to get you anyway.
I come across so many Catholics that think all they need to know is at Mass every Sunday. I try to tell them that it is our duty to know all we can to defend ourselves and teach our children and fellow Christians to defend themselves from these erroneous traps.
And you are also right about Catholics not writing much on Islam. I looked for sources after my brother’s conversion and have found mostly Protestant. I am hoping that he will convert back and write a very detailed Catholic book about Islam.
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