Are There Any Rites That Are The Jewish Rite?

[HolyRosario]

I know all Catholics are Jewish because the apostles were , but are there any rites that are under the ethnicity group of Jews?

 

[chaldobyzantine]

Well there is a Hebrew-Speaking Vicariate for Latin-Rite Catholics in Israel (www.catholic.co.il)

The apostles were ethnically Jewish, so the Church was founded by Jews. But to say that all Catholics are religiously Jewish is an incorrect statement. We believe the Messiah has come, resurrected, risen, and founded the church, etc. So that is our major distinction between our faith and the Jewish faith.

 

[Hesychios]

Well there is a Hebrew-Speaking Vicariate for Latin-Rite Catholics in Israel (www.catholic.co.il)

It’s not very old, at that.

Wasn’t there a big snizzle about this when Pope John Paul II separated this vicariate from the regular church structure?

 

[Hesychios]

… are there any rites that are under the ethnicity group of Jews?

Look up the history of the Knanaya. They are an endogamous people who claim direct descent from Jewish Christians.

My guess is they were not entirely successful at it in times gone by, but in spirit they will not marry outsiders into the community. The Papacy has made the concession to them that they may have their own particular church with a bishop who is Knanaya.

It is known that in Roman times there was a major Jewish community in Kerala (several local synagogs still in use are extremely old), this being along the major trade routes. Likely some of these Jewish colonists living in India converted to Christianity, Saint Thomas is believed to have arrived there and preached, eventually martyred further into the interior near Mylapore.

They also have the legend of a colony of Jewish Christians arrived as a group en masse from Mesopotamia or Edessa at a later date, which is certainly also possible. So either or both of these events may be true and may explain their zealous attachment to some Jewish traditions (I don’t know what traditions specifically are involved).

It should be noted that most of the Kerala Christians are not part of the endogamic community.

 

[HolyRosario]

Well there is a Hebrew-Speaking Vicariate for Latin-Rite Catholics in Israel (www.catholic.co.il)

The apostles were ethnically Jewish, so the Church was founded by Jews. But to say that all Catholics are religiously Jewish is an incorrect statement. We believe the Messiah has come, resurrected, risen, and founded the church, etc. So that is our major distinction between our faith and the Jewish faith.

I agree , what I ment by Jewish was since the Apostles Were Jewish woudent that make all Christians Jewish in a very small way?

St.Peter was still a devout Jew , All early Christians were , they just believed what the lord taught and that the messiah came.

Have you also wondered where the Old Testiment came from? Those were Jewish books , what did you think early Christians followed in those times? The bible wasent fully complete since it was still being recorded.

Also in bible the lord explains that all the " Jews " who believe in him were the ones ( His followers )

There are still Jewish Christian churches like this , I have witnessed them myself.

God Bless

 

[Formosus]

For the most part , Jewish christianity disappeared after the destruction of.the temple. Some hang ons continue like the group mentioned by Hesychios in India. The formation of “rites” occurred after this. So there is no
“Jewish” rite in the church.

 

[Diakonia]

Rosario, you have a curious habit of asking a question and then, a few posts later announcing the answer to your own question (or what you believe to be the answer).

Regardless of what you believe that you have observed, there are no Catholic Churches - of any Rite or Church sui iuris which serve a liturgical service - be it Mass, Divine Liturgy, Soorp Badarak, Holy Qurbono, Holy Qurbana, Razza, or whatever - that is judaized (the term for what you describe). No - we are not even a tiny bit Jewish.

As has been explained already, Catholics are not Jews - not even a little bit (unless they happen to be persons of Jewish ethnicity who have become Catholiocs) and there is no Jewish Rite. However, I have a vague recollection that some of those in the Hebrew Vicariate were agitating to create one - an idea that was rather quickly (and appropriately) rejected as one that would be seen as offensive to the Jewish community.

So, your chances to have seen what you claim to have seen would have necessitated your presence at a Holy Qurbana served according to the Knanaite Usage of the Syro-Malabar Church - unlikely - or the Ùér’ata Qéddase of the Ethiopian Ge’ez Catholics - equally unlikely. And, frankly, were you present at either, you’d be unlikely to note the nuances, which are subtle and would not be readily identified as such - even by their own faithful. Such retained praxis are, frankly, more common in para-liturgical praxis, rather than in the service of the liturgical services themselves.

The Knanya, whom Hesychios referenced, are Oriental Catholic and Orthodox descended from 72 families (about 400 persons) of Christian Jews. Accompanied by a bishop (Uraha Mar Yausef ), four presbyters, and deacons, they emigrated to India in three ships about 345 AD under the leadership of Knaithomman or Thomas the Cananite.

The Knanaites are a strictly endogenous community, retain particular liturgical, devotional, and cultural practices unique to themselves. Pope St Pius X, by the Apostolic Brief Universi Christiani, granted them a personal jurisdiction (now the autonomous Metropolitan Arch-Eparchy of Kottayam) within the Syro-Malabar Catholic Church. (Kottayam is the sole autonomous jurisdiction designated as a metropolia that has no suffragn jurisdictions.)

In the US, the Eparchy of Saint Thomas the Apostle of Chicago of the Syro-Malabarese has, within it, a Vicariate for the Knanaya Catholic Community in North America. There are 10 parishes in the vicariate.

Although formal Knanya jurisdictions exist only in the Syro-Malabarese Church and the Syrian Orthodox Jacobite (Indian) Church (its Oriental Orthodox counterpart), there are Knanaites within each of the Indian ecclesial communities (other than the Latin Catholic) and, officially or otherwise, provisions are made to accommodate their praxis in all of the Churches of Saint Thomas Christians.

(That includes the two Saint Thomas Churches which are neither Oriental Catholic nor Orthodox; however, the Knanya themselves consider those who belong to Churches outside Catholicism or Orthodoxy to have severed their relationship with the closed ethnic community that they are.)

The (Syro-Malabarese) Metropolitan Arch-Eparchy of Kottayam for the Knanya includes 15 parishes in an Episcopal Vicariate for Malankara Knanaites (by pastoral agreement with the Malankara Church). Those parishes canonically serve the Knanaite Usage of the Malankara Rescension of the Antiochene Rite, within a jurisdiction that is Chaldean in Rite.

Anyway, back to the main point - the Knanya retain some practices that are Jewish in their origins at antiquity.

The same is true of the Ethiopian Tewahado Orthodox and Ethiopian (Ge’ez) Catholics.

 

[Cecilianus]

“Spiritually we are all Semites.”

(Venerable Pius XII of thrice-blessed memory)

 

[ncrespi]

As one commenter wrote, there is Hebrew language during Catholic rites in Israel.
But this is because Hebrew is the mother tongue of Israel. It no more makes the rite
Jewish than in English speaking countries British, French speaking countries a
French rite, etc.

 

[TEX]

I know all Catholics are Jewish

All Catholics are not Jewish. What on earth are you talking about?!?

 

[I_Thirst]

All Catholics are not Jewish. What on earth are you talking about?!?

Perhaps in reference to this … ?

“Spiritually we are all Semites.”

(Venerable Pius XII of thrice-blessed memory)

 

[HolyRosario]

All Catholics are not Jewish. What on earth are you talking about?!?

I think you are confused of what I’m actually talking about. I don’t mean " Actuall Jews " what I mean is spiritual Jews , and matter of fact all Christians are spirtual Jews not just Catholicism it’s self.

I have spoken with many christians about this topic , and lots of them agree with the fact we were once Jews. The Jews that followed Christ were known as " The Way or Christians "

 

[Barbkw]

“Jesus and the Jewish Roots of the Eucharist: Unlocking the Secrets of the Last Supper”
Brant Pitre

amazon.com/gp/product/0385531842/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=057803834X&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=15V8KG3RN0EQC9EPH20P

“Worthy is the Lamb: The Biblical Roots of the Mass [Paperback]
Tom Nash”

amazon.com/gp/product/0898709946/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_2?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=057803834X&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=15V8KG3RN0EQC9EPH20P

ewtn.com/series/shows/theBiblicalStoryOfTheMass/theBiblicalStoryOfTheMass.html

The Catholic Church’s seven Sacraments are all prefigured in the Torah.

 

[HolyRosario]

“Jesus and the Jewish Roots of the Eucharist: Unlocking the Secrets of the Last Supper”
Brant Pitre

amazon.com/gp/product/0385531842/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=057803834X&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=15V8KG3RN0EQC9EPH20P

“Worthy is the Lamb: The Biblical Roots of the Mass [Paperback]
Tom Nash”

amazon.com/gp/product/0898709946/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_2?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=057803834X&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=15V8KG3RN0EQC9EPH20P

Thank You!

 

[Barbkw]

Baptism prefigured in the Old Testament

vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P3I.HTM

Compendium of the Catholic Church:

II. Baptism in the Economy of Salvation

Prefigurations of Baptism in the Old Covenant

1217 In the liturgy of the Easter Vigil, during the blessing of the baptismal water, the Church solemnly commemorates the great events in salvation history that already prefigured the mystery of Baptism:

Father, you give us grace through sacramental signs which tell us of the wonders of your unseen power.

In Baptism we use your gift of water, which you have made a rich symbol of the grace you give us in this sacrament.11

1218 Since the beginning of the world, water, so humble and wonderful a creature, has been the source of life and fruitfulness. Sacred Scripture sees it as “oveshadowed” by the Spirit of God:12

At the very dawn of creation

your Spirit breathed on the waters,

making them the wellspring of all holiness.13

1219 The Church has seen in Noah’s ark a prefiguring of salvation by Baptism, for by it “a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water”:14

The waters of the great flood

you made a sign of the waters of Baptism,

that make an end of sin and a new beginning of goodness.15

1220 If water springing up from the earth symbolizes life, the water of the sea is a symbol of death and so can represent the mystery of the cross. By this symbolism Baptism signifies communion with Christ’s death.

1221 But above all, the crossing of the Red Sea, literally the liberation of Israel from the slavery of Egypt, announces the liberation wrought by Baptism:

You freed the children of Abraham from the slavery of Pharaoh,

bringing them dry-shod through the waters of the Red Sea,

to be an image of the people set free in Baptism.16

1222 Finally, Baptism is prefigured in the crossing of the Jordan River by which the People of God received the gift of the land promised to Abraham’s descendants, an image of eternal life. the promise of this blessed inheritance is fulfilled in the New Covenant.

Christ’s Baptism

1223 All the Old Covenant prefigurations find their fulfillment in Christ Jesus. He begins his public life after having himself baptized by St. John the Baptist in the Jordan.17 After his resurrection Christ gives this mission to his apostles: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you."18

1224 Our Lord voluntarily submitted himself to the baptism of St. John, intended for sinners, in order to "fulfill all righteousness."19 Jesus’ gesture is a manifestation of his self-emptying.20 The Spirit who had hovered over the waters of the first creation descended then on the Christ as a prelude of the new creation, and the Father revealed Jesus as his "beloved Son."21

1225 In his Passover Christ opened to all men the fountain of Baptism. He had already spoken of his Passion, which he was about to suffer in Jerusalem, as a “Baptism” with which he had to be baptized.22 The blood and water that flowed from the pierced side of the crucified Jesus are types of Baptism and the Eucharist, the sacraments of new life.23 From then on, it is possible "to be born of water and the Spirit"24 in order to enter the Kingdom of God.

See where you are baptized, see where Baptism comes from, if not from the cross of Christ, from his death. There is the whole mystery: he died for you. In him you are redeemed, in him you are saved.25

Baptism in the Church

1226 From the very day of Pentecost the Church has celebrated and administered holy Baptism. Indeed St. Peter declares to the crowd astounded by his preaching: "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."26 The apostles and their collaborators offer Baptism to anyone who believed in Jesus: Jews, the God-fearing, pagans.27 Always, Baptism is seen as connected with faith: “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household,” St. Paul declared to his jailer in Philippi. and the narrative continues, the jailer "was baptized at once, with all his family."28

1227 According to the Apostle Paul, the believer enters through Baptism into communion with Christ’s death, is buried with him, and rises with him:

Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.29

The baptized have "put on Christ."30 Through the Holy Spirit, Baptism is a bath that purifies, justifies, and sanctifies.31

1228 Hence Baptism is a bath of water in which the “imperishable seed” of the Word of God produces its life-giving effect.32 St. Augustine says of Baptism: "The word is brought to the material element, and it becomes a sacrament."33

 

[Barbkw]

vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P3Q.HTM

Compendium of the Catholic Church

. Confirmation in the Economy of Salvation

1286 In the Old Testament the prophets announced that the Spirit of the Lord would rest on the hoped-for Messiah for his saving mission.90 The descent of the Holy Spirit on Jesus at his baptism by John was the sign that this was he who was to come, the Messiah, the Son of God.91 He was conceived of the Holy Spirit; his whole life and his whole mission are carried out in total communion with the Holy Spirit whom the Father gives him "without measure."92

1287 This fullness of the Spirit was not to remain uniquely the Messiah’s, but was to be communicated to the whole messianic people.93 On several occasions Christ promised this outpouring of the Spirit,94 a promise which he fulfilled first on Easter Sunday and then more strikingly at Pentecost.95 Filled with the Holy Spirit the apostles began to proclaim “the mighty works of God,” and Peter declared this outpouring of the Spirit to be the sign of the messianic age.96 Those who believed in the apostolic preaching and were baptized received the gift of the Holy Spirit in their turn.97

1288 "From that time on the apostles, in fulfillment of Christ’s will, imparted to the newly baptized by the laying on of hands the gift of the Spirit that completes the grace of Baptism. For this reason in the Letter to the Hebrews the doctrine concerning Baptism and the laying on of hands is listed among the first elements of Christian instruction. the imposition of hands is rightly recognized by the Catholic tradition as the origin of the sacrament of Confirmation, which in a certain way perpetuates the grace of Pentecost in the Church."98

1289 Very early, the better to signify the gift of the Holy Spirit, an anointing with perfumed oil (chrism) was added to the laying on of hands. This anointing highlights the name “Christian,” which means “anointed” and derives from that of Christ himself whom God "anointed with the Holy Spirit."99 This rite of anointing has continued ever since, in both East and West. For this reason the Eastern Churches call this sacrament Chrismation, anointing with chrism, or myron which means “chrism.” In the West, Confirmation suggests both the ratification of Baptism, thus completing Christian initiation, and the strengthening of baptismal grace - both fruits of the Holy Spirit.

Two traditions: East and West

1290 In the first centuries Confirmation generally comprised one single celebration with Baptism, forming with it a “double sacrament,” according to the expression of St. Cyprian. Among other reasons, the multiplication of infant baptisms all through the year, the increase of rural parishes, and the growth of dioceses often prevented the bishop from being present at all baptismal celebrations. In the West the desire to reserve the completion of Baptism to the bishop caused the temporal separation of the two sacraments. the East has kept them united, so that Confirmation is conferred by the priest who baptizes. But he can do so only with the “myron” consecrated by a bishop.100

1291 A custom of the Roman Church facilitated the development of the Western practice: a double anointing with sacred chrism after Baptism. the first anointing of the neophyte on coming out of the baptismal bath was performed by the priest; it was completed by a second anointing on the forehead of the newly baptized by the bishop.101 The first anointing with sacred chrism, by the priest, has remained attached to the baptismal rite; it signifies the participation of the one baptized in the prophetic, priestly, and kingly offices of Christ. If Baptism is conferred on an adult, there is only one post-baptismal anointing, that of Confirmation.

1292 The practice of the Eastern Churches gives greater emphasis to the unity of Christian initiation. That of the Latin Church more clearly expresses the communion of the new Christian with the bishop as guarantor and servant of the unity, catholicity and apostolicity of his Church, and hence the connection with the apostolic origins of Christ’s Church.

 

[Barbkw]

A Biblical Walk Through the Mass (Book): Understanding What We Say and Do In The Liturgy [Paperback] by Edward Sri

amazon.com/Biblical-Walk-Through-Mass-Book/dp/1935940007/ref=pd_rhf_cr_shvl1

 

[Cristiano]

The only rite in the Catholic Church that could be called Semitic is the Maronite Rite, simply because the Phoenicians were part of the Semitic enclave and the Maronites are their descendents. However, this ancestry is not along religious lines but along ethnic lines.

The statement by Pius XI was simply done to address the anti-semitism of the time. While we have Jewish roots in our religion and forms of worship we are not Jews at all. I think that it is a little bit biased to say that we are spiritually Semites as it would be saying that Jews are incomplete Christians. Both statements could be correct under the proper assumptions but used in general terms they can be quite misleading and probably insulting to quite a few people.

 

[HolyRosario]

The only rite in the Catholic Church that could be called Semitic is the Maronite Rite, simply because the Phoenicians were part of the Semitic enclave and the Maronites are their descendents. However, this ancestry is not along religious lines but along ethnic lines.

The statement by Pius XI was simply done to address the anti-semitism of the time. While we have Jewish roots in our religion and forms of worship we are not Jews at all. I think that it is a little bit biased to say that we are spiritually Semites as it would be saying that Jews are incomplete Christians. Both statements could be correct under the proper assumptions but used in general terms they can be quite misleading and probably insulting to quite a few people.

Thank You! Finally somebody understood my question. God bless

 

[ncrespi]

I know that if you are born Catholic, you get accustomed to the R.C. rituals and sacred objects, and don’t think about the origins. But being that I am an adult convert, I was privileged to get a tour of my church and explanations of everything. Many parishoners don’t know that such things as the ark in the sanctuary, the choir singing, baptism, etc, were taken from the Jews. Baptism was changed from the Hebrew ritual for married women to infant baptism Catholics
perform ( with, of course, the exception of adult conversion baptism ).

All that being said, it can never be forgotten that Jesus was born a Jew from a Jewish mother.
And when one of this forum’s members commented that " we are all Jews " it was meant not as affiliation, but remembrance of the origins of who we worship.