Are there any statistics on the number of clergy who disagree with Church teaching?

[EXdrinker]

“Voting Democrat” does not equate to “Disagree with Church teaching”. The Dem Party in USA supports the Church teachings on immigration, the environment, capital punishment, and probably economic policies.

No party in USA supports all the teachings of the Church so whichever party you pick, you will be supporting some Church teachings and not supporting others.

Hi Tis,
I agree that voting democratic doesn’t necessarily mean that one disagrees with Church teaching but you make it sound like only the democrats are in the bounds of church teaching on immigration, the environment, and economic issues. These are prudential judgement issues that are in bounds as much, if not more, on the republican side.

To me, the biggest problem surrounding voting for democrats in the US is the life and marriage issue. The democrats are completely against Church teaching on these. Essentially it ends up being, how much do these issues weigh against the myriad of prudential judgement issues on whether or not one should vote for democrats.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

My point is that there is no one party currently in USA that embraces the fullness of the teaching of the Catholic Church, nor is there one major party that completely rejects all teachings of the Catholic Church. (There is likely some fringe atheist or communist party that wants to get rid of the church, and for whom almost no one votes.) Therefore we cannot say that one who voted Democrat, Republican or Green is demonstrating that they disagree with “Church teaching” by their vote.

I’m uninterested in anyone’s argument that either party is more moral than the other. Both of them have good and bad points and I have very little party loyalty at this point in my life. I realize there are Catholics out there with strong loyalties to Dems or Repubs, they can go argue these issues among themselves and leave me out.

 

[commenter]

It’s true neither party is perfect. But the Republicans are still somewhat open on issues such as marriage, Life, rights of parents in education, and others. They could go either way.

The Democrats are closed on those issues. There are only a few mostly older, prolife Democrats in office now. They are grandfathered in, but prevented from going on higher office. Any prolifers starting out will almost certainly be blocked from nomination.

A generation ago people would say they remain Democrats so they can have an influence on that party.

That strategy is no longer prudent

 

[thistle]

I’d be interested to know what percentage of clergy (priests, bishops, deacons, nuns, etc.) openly disagree with Church teaching on matters such as abortion, contraceptives, gay marriage, papal in fallibility, remarriage after divorce, etc.

Are there any studies that have been done on this?

However many there are they are wrong and by rejecting/denying Church teachings they put themselves in a state of mortal sin and if any of the teaching they reject are infallible they further commit heresy.

Jesus established the Church and gave it authority to teach in matters of faith and morals. That means all Church teachings are backed by the full authority of God.
God’s teachings through his Church trump any opinions of heretic clergy.

 

[EnglishTeacher]

Wait, where is that in the article? The graph had 30% of Catholic priests voting Democrat, a little over 30% voting Republican, and the remaining 35% “Other.”

Also, just curious: Did the Catholic portion of the article focus solely on priests, or did it include deacons and/or others in leadership roles?

 

[WingsOfEagles]

If he said abortion is a serious sin, how is he not pro-life?

I assume not politically pro-life?

The old, “I wouldn’t have one, but who am I to say another can’t?”

 

[JulianN]

That’s not how I would have read this —if someone thinks abortion is a serious sin, then I wouldn’t imagine they think it’s OK for anyone.

 

[WingsOfEagles]

I can’t speak for this priest, but I’ve heard liberal friends make the argument for this.

 

[JulianN]

I guess the people I’ve heard say that aren’t the people who think it’s a serious sin.

 

[commenter]

JulianN:

If he said abortion is a serious sin, how is he not pro-life?

I assume not politically pro-life?

The old, “I wouldn’t have one, but who am I to say another can’t?”

Comparable to the argument “I would never own slaves myself. I’m personally opposed to slavery. But who am I to…”

 

[JulianN]

he admitted abortion is a serious sin, and he never preached that it was okay. In fact, his homilies were very orthodox.

This is the original quote—that doesn’t sound like the priest was implying anything like what you’re suggesting.

 

[phil19034]

Here is a more reliable source. Pretty much 50% of Catholics priests vote Democrat

Your Rabbi? Probably a Democrat. Your Baptist Pastor? Probably a Republican. Your Priest? Who Knows. - The New York Times

I think this article is actually pretty bad. Most priests I know are registered as Independents and vote pro-Life.

I know my pastor is a registered independent and he has said that he has voted for both Republicans & Democrats. But that pro-life is his main issue.

 

[phil19034]

I found this

Most Catholic priests 'do not support Rome over contraception'

According to the article:

Most Roman Catholic priests in England and Wales do not support the Church’s ban on artificial contraception.

- The poll of 1,482 priests - almost half their total number - found that 43 per cent actively opposed the Vatican’s stance on contraception, while a further 19 per cent were unsure whether to support the Church’s official policy.

_- 25 per cent of those surveyed said that they believed that a woman could be ordained a bishop. _

- The poll also found that one in four priests was no longer convinced of the need for chastity

- One in 10 questioned felt that pedophilia should not rule out priests from active ministry.

- 40 per cent believed that the Church’s attitude to divorce and remarriage should be liberalised.

But, the end of the article also says this:

A spokesman for the Catholic Bishops’ Conference of England and Wales questioned the methodology of the survey, saying that the questions were “very general and, on occasions, confused and confusing to the respondents”.

He added: "It is a work of an Anglican clergyman and academic and his former doctorate student, a Catholic priest. As such, it was unofficial and was not welcomed by most of the priesthood.

“For all these good reasons, the statistical findings of this book must be treated with great caution and cannot be seen as a true reflection of the current beliefs of priests in England and Wales.”

Fr Shaun Middleton, a spokesman for the National Conference of Priests, said: "I have some serious questions about the methodology and sample base that was used for this work. A number of areas highlighted give priests cause for reflection.

“However, I do not think the views contained in The Naked Parish Priest can be taken as normative. In my opinion, they do not reflect the views held by the majority of priests working in England and Wales.”

If this article is/was correct - the the Catholic Church in the UK is/was in worse shape than I thought

 

[phil19034]

Wait, where is that in the article? The graph had 30% of Catholic priests voting Democrat, a little over 30% voting Republican, and the remaining 35% “Other.”

Also, just curious: Did the Catholic portion of the article focus solely on priests, or did it include deacons and/or others in leadership roles?

That graph wasn’t how they vote. It was how they are registered.

A large number of older, good priests who grew up as Democrats have officially left the party and have become independents.

 

[thistle]

Pretty much 50% of Catholics priests vote Democrat

What difference does that make. Voting Democrat, be you priest or layperson, does not make you pro-abortion. The Church is very clear about voting for a political candidate who is pro-abortion and it is not forbidden.

This statement is from the CDF (Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith):

“A Catholic would be guilty of formal cooperation in evil, and so unworthy to present himself for Holy Communion, if he were to deliberately vote for a candidate precisely because of the candidate’s permissive stand on abortion and/or euthanasia. When a Catholic does not share a candidate’s stand in favour of abortion and/or euthanasia, but votes for that candidate for other reasons , it is considered remote material cooperation, which can be permitted in the presence of proportionate reasons.”

 

[bobperk]

These days, it seems quite “en vogue” to disagree with Church teaching. . .even at some of the highest levels of the hierarchy.

 

[EnglishTeacher]

That graph wasn’t how they vote. It was how they are registered.

A large number of older, good priests who grew up as Democrats have officially left the party and have become independents.

That makes more sense. I know a rather large number of priests and there are only one or two that I could picture as registering or voting Democrat. There seem to be a large number that view themselves as independent, too.

 

[WingsOfEagles]

phil19034:

That graph wasn’t how they vote. It was how they are registered.

A large number of older, good priests who grew up as Democrats have officially left the party and have become independents.

That makes more sense. I know a rather large number of priests and there are only one or two that I could picture as registering or voting Democrat. There seem to be a large number that view themselves as independent, too.

Yes, I could envision a large number of priests feeling neither party fully fits them. Republicans are morally sound on things like marriage and abortion, but Democrats support the more socialist mindset that our current Pope seems to support. Free healthcare, anti death penalty, anti war, welfare, etc.