Are there any Teachings from Saints about annulments?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ammi
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In principle, the problem of secret intentions invalidating a sacrament applies not only to the marriage but other sacraments as well: baptisms, ordinations, the Eucharist among others. In practice, nullity cases of other sacraments are rare, and when it happens, the nullity is not based on secret intentions but an external factor like wrong matter or a wrong external act.

Is it the case that other sacraments don’t require as much psychic intentionality as marriage to be valid?
 
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Ammi said:
Only the most severe forms of psychopathology impair substantially the freedom of the individual .”
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I’m familiar with this statement and use it regularly.
Ammi said:
"If there is a ‘mental reserve’ at the moment the vows are pronounced, that must be thoroughly proven."
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This isn’t in the 1993 address. I don’t know where it might come from. It’s still a true statement, though.

Dan
 
HomeschoolDad said:
That is really not something you could prove.
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On the contrary, it is something that can be proven through the other prior, contemporaneous, and subsequent statements, behaviors, beliefs, indications, etc., which definitely demonstrate that the person intended not what he stated “at the altar.”

Dan
 
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That could be part of it, and possibly used but isnt the main point and focus that something was missing at the time or prior to the wedding?
 
I think this is an important stat to show the evil of No Fault Divorce:
"According to statistics the number of annulments granted annually in the United States soared from 338 in 1968, to 28,918 in 1974, to a peak of 63,933 in 1991."
 
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JoeShlabotnik said:
Your are splitting hairs.
When two people are married and live together as man and wife. And have children together. And do all the things that married people do, they are married.
This premise that there never was a marriage to begin with? :roll_eyes: Sorry, I am just not buying it.
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Yet, it is possible for two unmarried people to live together, have and raise children, and do all manner of things married couples do without being married, right?

And, it is possible for two Catholics to get “married” civilly and go on to have and raised children and live together as husband and wife for 20 or 30 years and still not be married, right?

Entering into a years long living arrangement with another person is not the same thing as entering into a valid marriage.
 
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A marriage in the church is valid.
Your two examples of people not being married, but having a family, etc., are not…
When a man and a woman are married in the church, (especially those who have celebrated 20 to 30 years of marriage) they are married for life.
 
JoeShlabotnik said:
When a man and a woman are married in the church, (especially those who have celebrated 20 to 30 years of marriage) they are married for life.
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Even if one does not consent to be married, but feels that they must for whatever reason?
 
JoeShlabotnik said:
Your are splitting hairs.
When two people are married and live together as man and wife. And have children together. And do all the things that married people do, they are married.
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That’s a tautology. Yes, when someone is married, they’re married. But if they’re not married, then they’re not married. There is no vow. There is nothing to break.
JoeShlabotnik said:
By the way, historically speaking, the Church has said many things.
At one time, priest could be married. Then that was changed.
Now, we have ministers from other religions who are married, but convert to Catholicism and they are priests, but they are married.
Who knows what may happen in the future? We may one day all priests may be allowed to be married.
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Did the Church ever teach that marriage invalidates Holy Orders? No. You cannot compare the validity of a marriage to a Church discipline.
JoeShlabotnik said:
Remember when it was a mortal sin to eat meat on all Fridays?
The Church is free to change back and forth about this or that.
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Did the Church say it no longer has the power to make such pronouncements? No. Did you know that what you’re talking about is only in the US and it is still in fact a mortal sin to eat meat on Fridays in other countries since that is their Friday penance?
JoeShlabotnik said:
I love the Catholic Church and if the Church wants to grant an annulment to those who have been married for years and years and years and years, I suppose they have the right to do that.
But I also believe that marriage is a sacred thing. It is a sacrament. We are joined together by God.
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Are you saying then that the Catholic Church doesn’t hold marriage sacred? That canonists don’t? Do you really believe that canonists don’t know that marriage is a Sacrament and that those are vows they make up there?
 
I would say that the vast majority of people who get married in the Church, do so because they want to be married.
Are there exceptions? Perhaps.
But many American Catholics use annulment as a way to get around divorce and being able to receive the sacrament at Mass.
 
Say what you will, Fauken, but what God has joined together, let no man put asunder. AMEN
 
JoeShlabotnik said:
But many American Catholics use annulment as a way to get around divorce and being able to receive the sacrament at Mass.
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I’m not prepared to make that kind of judgement about people I don’t know and people whose interior dispositions I could not possibly know.
 
Please. Many, many Catholics get a divorce. And a good many of those gain annulments. All of these people had good reasons, other than wanting to be able to take communion? Right.
 
Now you are just being silly…
I am moving on to another thread.
It has all been said.
 
JoeShlabotnik said:
Please. Many, many Catholics get a divorce. And a good many of those gain annulments. All of these people had good reasons, other than wanting to be able to take communion? Right.
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You are making assumptions. You what they say happens when you assume…

The point is that you don’t know and there is not way you can know.
 
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