Are there any "true Christians" in Christians?

[paarsurrey]

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=4619609&postcount=125
What is the difference between Mormons and Islam?

Originally Posted by dianaiad:

The definition of the word “Christian” varies according to who is using it. In fact, there is a logical fallacy called a ‘true scott,’ the classic example of which goes thusly: “No Scott drinks whiskey. Angus McBee, born in Aberdeen, drinks whiskey. Therefore he is not a true Scott.”

I think that this fallacy should be renamed the ‘true Christian’ fallacy. Everybody who uses it defines it differently, as you just have; to you, a ‘true Christian’ has to believe that Christ died on the cross. Well, Mormons definitely believe that–but that’s not what makes us Christian.

What makes us “Christian” is that we base our beliefs around the teachings of Jesus Christ as we believe them to be, and we believe we are Christians. That’s it. “Christian” does not mean “Saved.” It does not mean “correct.” It definitely does not mean a specific set of doctrinal beliefs and practices that exclude all others who think that Christ meant this rather than that.

To claim that only trinitarians (for instance) can be 'true Christians" is to commit this fallacy. To claim that “True Christians” can not pray for intercession from Mary or other Saints is to commit that fallacy. See where I’m going with this?

If Mormons were to buy into the definition of “Christian” that those who deny us use–which boils down to “he who believes precisely what I do about Him–and is correct and saved,” then we would have to say still that yes, we are Christians.

and nobody else is.

and that would be insane, because of course they are. They may not be RIGHT, but that they are Christian? Of course.

Hi

Well, my question was in fact directed to Mormons, though you are welcome to reply. The topic of the thread arranges Mormons to Muslims; so my primary concern is as to what the Mormons think they are. If they say that they are not Muslims and they are Christians; for the purposes of this thread I would accept that, though the Christians may accept it or not.

The Christians have their own preferences. Please don’t mind; in my opinion there are no “true Christians” in Christians, as they only follow Paul , and Jesus only in name not in essence and reality.

Do Mormons say they are Christians or not? From this standpoint my research would advance with the Mormons.

I love Jesus and Mary as I love Buddha and Krishna

Thanks

 

[rob179ny]

Maybe you should ask the church which God established upon earth about this. So judgemental arent we. But remember you judgements are pretty much influenced by your belief, which means that your credibility on christianity is null, because you do not understand it totally.

By the way you never answered my question from a different thread. What percentage of Islam do the Ahmadi makeup?

 

[dianaiad]

Maybe you should ask the church which God established upon earth about this.

Which one would that be?

So judgemental arent we. But remember you judgements are pretty much influenced by your belief, which means that your credibility on christianity is null, because you do not understand it totally.

Does anybody? there are a BUNCH of Christian beliefs out there. I’ll bet you anything that if you ask twenty Christians what they mean when they say “trinity” you will get twenty different answers.

 

[bpbasilphx]

Please don’t mind; in my opinion there are no “true Christians” in Christians,

Just why would the opinion of a Mahometan about who is and who is not a true Christian be of any use or even have any meaning?

 

[dianaiad]

Please don’t mind; in my opinion there are no “true Christians” in Christians,

Just why would the opinion of a Mahometan about who is and who is not a true Christian be of any use or even have any meaning?

Oh, I dunno. the man has just as much right to decide this as you do.

That is…none at all.

Or, perhaps, every right in the world. Who DOES get to decide this? Given the number of people who have decided that they do–and who then merrily proceed to kick a whole bunch of people out of the ‘club,’ so to speak, it gets a wee bit confusing as to who gets to make the call.

I’ve just about decided that it doesn’t matter who thinks I’m a Christian; it only matters Who believes I am Christ’s–and frankly nobody but Christ gets a vote in that one.

 

[cathopologist]

Please don’t mind; in my opinion there are no “true Christians” in Christians, as they only follow Paul , and Jesus only in name not in essence and reality.

Are you even a “true enough Muslim” to ask this question? Do all Muslims follow Mohammad? Are they all warlords, statesmen, slave-owners, marry really young girls and rewrite history? In my opinion, Muslims are Muslims because of Uthman’s interference in the formation of the Qu’ran - not because of Mohammad. What say you?

 

[rob179ny]

Which one would that be?

Does anybody? there are a BUNCH of Christian beliefs out there. I’ll bet you anything that if you ask twenty Christians what they mean when they say “trinity” you will get twenty different answers.

I cant do the research for you. Pray that the holy spirit show you this, and let God guide you to his one true church on earth.Being in this Forum should be a hint.

Those who follow the tenets of the one true Church in obedience to Christ, I think would be a pretty graced christian…

 

[dianaiad]

I cant do the research for you. Pray that the holy spirit show you this, and let God guide you to his one true church on earth.Being in this Forum should be a hint.

Those who follow the tenets of the one true Church in obedience to Christ, I think would be a pretty graced christian…

Ok.

How nice for you to approve of my staying LDS.

(grin)

 

[rob179ny]

Ok.

How nice for you to approve of my staying LDS.

(grin)

That’s cool, well then be careful around here because the Lord’s work and truth is all over the place in here. One question, Do you know how to swim? Lol

Just kidding, whatever is God’s will, will be.

 

[kellie]

The Christians have their own preferences. Please don’t mind; in my opinion there are no “true Christians” in Christians, as they only follow Paul , and Jesus only in name not in essence and reality.

paarsurrey, can you please explain, in your own words, what you mean by “in essence and reality” ?

Could you please tell me, in your opinion, how I, as a Catholic, do not follow Jesus in “essence or reality”, and explain how, in your opinion, I follow Paul?

 

[dianaiad]

That’s cool, well then be careful around here because the Lord’s work and truth is all over the place in here. One question, Do you know how to swim? Lol

Just kidding, whatever is God’s will, will be.

Yep.

“keep swimming, keep swimming…”

 

[paarsurrey]

Do you know how to swim?

Hi

What has that to do with the Christianity? If a Catholic could swim; so can a JW or a Mormon swim. I don’t think swimming is reserved for the Catholics only.

Thanks

 

[dianaiad]

Hi

What has that to do with the Christianity? If a Catholic could swim; so can a JW or a Mormon swim. I don’t think swimming is reserved for the Catholics only.

Thanks

It’s a reference to surviving in a shark tank, I think…it’s not about getting wet. It’s about persistence, survival, and the ability to stay sane.

 

[athair_siochain]

That’s cool, well then be careful around here because the Lord’s work and truth is all over the place in here. One question, Do you know how to swim? Lol

Just kidding, whatever is God’s will, will be.

Those who know the real truth about God can walk on water,

 

[bpbasilphx]

What a strange question from an Ahmadi, who are not recognized as real Mahometans by the large majority of Mahometans.

 

[Lapell]

Which one would that be?

Does anybody? there are a BUNCH of Christian beliefs out there. I’ll bet you anything that if you ask twenty Christians what they mean when they say “trinity” you will get twenty different answers.

Do you believe there IS a right true Church, dianaiad?
Like the one who set the Canon of which texts are to be regarded as authoritative, which means that the rest had to be discarded in that respect…

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

What a strange question from an Ahmadi, who are not recognized as real Mahometans by the large majority of Mahometans.

##** It may be strange, but it is also incomprehensible. It’s like asking if there are any true elephants in elephants - as presently phrased, it has no meaning**

 

[Patrick_Murebil]

Or, perhaps, every right in the world. Who DOES get to decide this? Given the number of people who have decided that they do–and who then merrily proceed to kick a whole bunch of people out of the ‘club,’ so to speak, it gets a wee bit confusing as to who gets to make the call.

I’ve just about decided that it doesn’t matter who thinks I’m a Christian; it only matters Who believes I am Christ’s–and frankly nobody but Christ gets a vote in that one.

John 14:11"Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves. 12I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father."

John 17:20"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: 23 I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me."

John 17:26 “I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them.”

*John 13:34"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another." *

God bless all!!!

 

[dzheremi]

Non-native phrasing aside, the question is still silly. Yes, of course, there are true Christians, all over the Apostolic Churches. Those who recognize the necessity and validity of the holy sacraments (no matter what their exact terminology), and the reality of the Trinity…these are the true Christians. Mormons do not fit this criteria, even if they believe with all of their hearts that they do.

What importance any of this is to an Amhadi (heretical) Muslim is beyond me. but thanks just the same for your interest, Paarsurrey. I hope you will accept the answers of the Catholics and the Orthodox as being authoritative on this issue, and not insist on giving primacy to your own opinion in the face of the explanations of the actual adherents to this religion.

 

[dianaiad]

Do you believe there IS a right true Church, dianaiad?
Like the one who set the Canon of which texts are to be regarded as authoritative, which means that the rest had to be discarded in that respect…

Of course I do. I think mine is the “true church.”

If I did not, I’d go looking for a church that I thought DID have the truth, switch over, and then I would believe that church was the ‘right true church.’

To do anything else would be hypocritical.

I think that the same thing can be said of most every member of every church, Christian or non.

However, we aren’t talking about the ‘right true church.’ We are talking about Christianity. Hard as it might be for some to deal with the issue, the two terms are not the same.