Are there any...

  • Thread starter Thread starter Pope_Noah_I
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
P

Pope_Noah_I

Guest
…miraculous icons in the Eastern Catholic Church? The Orthodox seem to have them everywhere, but, not so with those in communion with Rome.
 
There are quite a few in the Ukrainian Catholic Church - Zarvanytsia, Univ, Hoshiv, Zhytomyr, just to name a couple. We have specific commemorations in our calendar for some of these as well. We also commemorate some from before the Union that are now in Orthodox hands such as the Pecherska Lavra and Pochaiv miraculous icons. I don’t really know about the other Eastern Catholic Churches.
 
There was supposed to be something that happened in Ambridge Pa not even 45 minutes from my house. I am not sure though what became of it. But I believe it to be a RCC.
 
bpbasilphx said:
I would be careful about things from this site. They also defend Fr. Gruner.
Click to expand...
I’m not sure who Fr. Gruner is, so I can’t comment about that. This was just the first website that popped up when I Googled “Our Lady of Damascus”. 🙂

There are plenty of other websites available on the miracles, so feel free to pick a better one.

Peace and God bless!
 
Ghosty said:
Our Lady of Damascus is a Melkite miraculous icon:

catholictradition.org/Mary/damascus.htm

Peace and God bless!
Click to expand...
I would have loved to read about the message that this miraculous icon has brought(which is UNITY), rather than knowing what Church it came out of. .

BUT since you mentioned it, let us shed some light on this,

The following was not from an Orthodox site, BUT from an Catholic site by a RCC priest,

(Fr. Robert J. Fox - Brief Bio.

He is known as the Fatima Priest - Fr. Robert J. Fox and founder of the Fatima Family Apostolate. He was born in Watertown, South Dakota in 1927. His father, Aloysius Fox, was a farmer. Fox was raised in a religious family and developed a vocation at an early age. After graduating from Watertown High School Fox studied at St John’s University, an all-male Benedictine liberal arts college in rural Minnesota between 1947 and 1950. Fox graduated from the St Paul Seminary in 1955. (More on WikiPedia) (More from Fishers of Men )…

So let us take a look to what he had written:

"…We consider the family that heaven has chosen for the Soufanieh
events with great interest. Obviously heaven’s design was that in this way
the importance of Christian unity could be more effectively communi-
cated. Myrna is Catholic of the Greek Melkite rite. Nicolas, her hus-
band, is Orthodox. Because of the respect and importance of the father
as head of the family, the Orthodox Church looks upon the Nazzours as
an Orthodox family. In the message for Church unity, it is important
that the Feast of Easter, which celebrates the risen Jesus Christ, should
be celebrated by all Christians at the same time. It is important that
Orthodox and Catholics both come to an agreement to celebrate Easter
at the same time—and then it is believed the rest will follow (i.e.,
Catholics and Orthodox Christians). It is the most important Christian
Feast and in early Christianity was the only Feast celebrated with each
Sunday of the week seen as a little Easter.

…The Patriarch replied: “Yes. Jesus prayed as follows: ‘I pray also for
those who will believe in me through their word, that all may be one as
you, Father, are in me, and I in you; I pray that they may be one in us,
that the world may believe that you sent me. . . .”
I was rather persistent with the gracious Melkite Patriarch, who was
just as gracious with me. ***It is important to remember that the Catholic
hierarchy exercises great care when the heavenly messages are originating
from an Orthodox home. The very home in which the apparitions have
taken place, ***where Myrna receives the messages, undergoes the sufferings
of the stigmata when Orthodox and Catholics celebrate Easter at the
same time, and takes place in a home owned by the Nazzours (not just
Nicolas) who are Orthodox, and the head of Myrna’s family is Nicolas
who is Orthodox.
Again, especially for us in the Western world, we must understand
this caution in light of the Eastern mentality and their position that they
consider the Nazzours to be an Orthodox family, based on the father’s
religion. The Catholic Church would not want to give the impression
that they were superseding that position. This is especially important
when very good ecumenical relations exist in Damascus between the
Greek Orthodox and the Catholics.
Before going to the papal nuncio’s residence I asked Fr. Zahlaoui
this question: “Do you know whether any reaction has been given by
Pope John Paul II to Soufanieh?”
Response: “Rome does not say anything about Soufanieh because
Nicolas is Greek Orthodox. Myrna is Catholic. Rome listens but does
not talk as Nicolas is Orthodox.”

soufanieh.excerptsofinri.com/book/soufanieh-chapter8/chapter8.html

…AND remember that the Icon came out of an orthodox Church in Eastern Europe.
I hope that I put an end to this.
GOD bless you all †††
 
Just another example of how the line between Melkite and Orthodox is rather faint, blurry, and jaggly in the Middle East–and doubtless altogether missing in places!
 
Ignatios said:
I would have loved to read about the message that this miraculous icon has brought(which is UNITY), rather than knowing what Church it came out of. .

BUT since you mentioned it, let us shed some light on this,

The following was not from an Orthodox site, BUT from an Catholic site by a RCC priest,

(Fr. Robert J. Fox - Brief Bio.

He is known as the Fatima Priest - Fr. Robert J. Fox and founder of the Fatima Family Apostolate. He was born in Watertown, South Dakota in 1927. His father, Aloysius Fox, was a farmer. Fox was raised in a religious family and developed a vocation at an early age. After graduating from Watertown High School Fox studied at St John’s University, an all-male Benedictine liberal arts college in rural Minnesota between 1947 and 1950. Fox graduated from the St Paul Seminary in 1955. (More on WikiPedia) (More from Fishers of Men )…

So let us take a look to what he had written:

"…We consider the family that heaven has chosen for the Soufanieh
events with great interest. Obviously heaven’s design was that in this way
the importance of Christian unity could be more effectively communi-
cated. Myrna is Catholic of the Greek Melkite rite. Nicolas, her hus-
band, is Orthodox. Because of the respect and importance of the father
as head of the family, the Orthodox Church looks upon the Nazzours as
an Orthodox family. In the message for Church unity, it is important
that the Feast of Easter, which celebrates the risen Jesus Christ, should
be celebrated by all Christians at the same time. It is important that
Orthodox and Catholics both come to an agreement to celebrate Easter
at the same time—and then it is believed the rest will follow (i.e.,
Catholics and Orthodox Christians). It is the most important Christian
Feast and in early Christianity was the only Feast celebrated with each
Sunday of the week seen as a little Easter.

…The Patriarch replied: “Yes. Jesus prayed as follows: ‘I pray also for
those who will believe in me through their word, that all may be one as
you, Father, are in me, and I in you; I pray that they may be one in us,
that the world may believe that you sent me. . . .”
I was rather persistent with the gracious Melkite Patriarch, who was
just as gracious with me. ***It is important to remember that the Catholic
hierarchy exercises great care when the heavenly messages are originating
from an Orthodox home. The very home in which the apparitions have
taken place, ***where Myrna receives the messages, undergoes the sufferings
of the stigmata when Orthodox and Catholics celebrate Easter at the
same time, and takes place in a home owned by the Nazzours (not just
Nicolas) who are Orthodox, and the head of Myrna’s family is Nicolas
who is Orthodox.
Again, especially for us in the Western world, we must understand
this caution in light of the Eastern mentality and their position that they
consider the Nazzours to be an Orthodox family, based on the father’s
religion. The Catholic Church would not want to give the impression
that they were superseding that position. This is especially important
when very good ecumenical relations exist in Damascus between the
Greek Orthodox and the Catholics.
Before going to the papal nuncio’s residence I asked Fr. Zahlaoui
this question: “Do you know whether any reaction has been given by
Pope John Paul II to Soufanieh?”
Response: “Rome does not say anything about Soufanieh because
Nicolas is Greek Orthodox. Myrna is Catholic. Rome listens but does
not talk as Nicolas is Orthodox.”

soufanieh.excerptsofinri.com/book/soufanieh-chapter8/chapter8.html

…AND remember that the Icon came out of an orthodox Church in Eastern Europe.
I hope that I put an end to this.
GOD bless you all †††
Click to expand...
Yeah, that’s great, except for this part…

soufanieh.com/ENGLISH/eestigma.htm

then there’s this sort of thing…

soufanieh.com/ENGLISH/eemess.htm
 
Ignatios said:
I would have loved to read about the message that this miraculous icon has brought(which is UNITY), rather than knowing what Church it came out of. .

BUT since you mentioned it, let us shed some light on this,

The following was not from an Orthodox site, BUT from an Catholic site by a RCC priest,

(Fr. Robert J. Fox - Brief Bio.

He is known as the Fatima Priest - Fr. Robert J. Fox and founder of the Fatima Family Apostolate. He was born in Watertown, South Dakota in 1927. His father, Aloysius Fox, was a farmer. Fox was raised in a religious family and developed a vocation at an early age. After graduating from Watertown High School Fox studied at St John’s University, an all-male Benedictine liberal arts college in rural Minnesota between 1947 and 1950. Fox graduated from the St Paul Seminary in 1955. (More on WikiPedia) (More from Fishers of Men )…

So let us take a look to what he had written:

"…We consider the family that heaven has chosen for the Soufanieh
events with great interest. Obviously heaven’s design was that in this way
the importance of Christian unity could be more effectively communi-
cated. Myrna is Catholic of the Greek Melkite rite. Nicolas, her hus-
band, is Orthodox. Because of the respect and importance of the father
as head of the family, the Orthodox Church looks upon the Nazzours as
an Orthodox family. In the message for Church unity, it is important
that the Feast of Easter, which celebrates the risen Jesus Christ, should
be celebrated by all Christians at the same time. It is important that
Orthodox and Catholics both come to an agreement to celebrate Easter
at the same time—and then it is believed the rest will follow (i.e.,
Catholics and Orthodox Christians). It is the most important Christian
Feast and in early Christianity was the only Feast celebrated with each
Sunday of the week seen as a little Easter.

…The Patriarch replied: “Yes. Jesus prayed as follows: ‘I pray also for
those who will believe in me through their word, that all may be one as
you, Father, are in me, and I in you; I pray that they may be one in us,
that the world may believe that you sent me. . . .”
I was rather persistent with the gracious Melkite Patriarch, who was
just as gracious with me. It is important to remember that the Catholic
hierarchy exercises great care when the heavenly messages are originating
from an Orthodox home. The very home in which the apparitions have
***taken place, ***where Myrna receives the messages, undergoes the sufferings
of the stigmata when Orthodox and Catholics celebrate Easter at the
same time, and takes place in a home owned by the Nazzours (not just
Nicolas) who are Orthodox, and the head of Myrna’s family is Nicolas
who is Orthodox.
Again, especially for us in the Western world, we must understand
this caution in light of the Eastern mentality and their position that they
consider the Nazzours to be an Orthodox family, based on the father’s
religion. The Catholic Church would not want to give the impression
that they were superseding that position. This is especially important
when very good ecumenical relations exist in Damascus between the
Greek Orthodox and the Catholics.
Before going to the papal nuncio’s residence I asked Fr. Zahlaoui
this question: “Do you know whether any reaction has been given by
Pope John Paul II to Soufanieh?”
Response: “Rome does not say anything about Soufanieh because
Nicolas is Greek Orthodox. Myrna is Catholic. Rome listens but does
not talk as Nicolas is Orthodox.”

soufanieh.excerptsofinri.com/book/soufanieh-chapter8/chapter8.html

…AND remember that the Icon came out of an orthodox Church in Eastern Europe.
I hope that I put an end to this.
GOD bless you all †††
Click to expand...
Myrna is a Melkite Catholic, and has always been very clear about this. What’s more, the Patriarchate of Antioch disavowed this particular miracle. :o

That being said, I view this as a “dual-miracle” as well, overlapping the Antiochian and Melkite jurisdictions, but it must be made clear that Myrna is Melkite, and her spiritual fathers are Catholic.

Peace and God bless!
 
Ghosty said:
Myrna is a Melkite Catholic, and has always been very clear about this.
Click to expand...
Myrna “WAS” a Melkite Catholic,
you (ghosty) should know better if you really practicing the Melkite Rite, that in the Middle East… AND, as it was listed in my previous post, that the women follows her husband’s Church always.
Here let me repost it for you since you neglected this part:

"… Again, especially for us in the Western world, we must understand
this caution in light of the Eastern mentality and their position that they
consider the Nazzours to be an Orthodox family, based on the father’s
religion…"
And again the above is not from an orthodox site nor it is by an Orthodox but by Catholics with a with a credible reference.
Now, Ghosty, where is your reference to your claims, in which I find always missing in most of, if not all of your statements. Maybe you should read what the text is saying and NOT what you want it to be.🤷
Code: 
... the Patriarchate of Antioch disavowed this particular miracle. :o...
Click to expand...
:o …
Again and again, you are wrong, maybe you should go back and read the document carefully, because IF you do, then, you will find out that the Orthodox Patriarchate were the first to analyse the Miracle of the Icon, and they were the first to CONFIRM it, AND they brought the Icon back to the Nazzour’s home in a dignitariall procession, Also the Easter (Pascha) that they were talking about when the Miracle happened it was the Orthodox Easter (Pascha) BUT not the stigmata .:rolleyes:
soufanieh.excerptsofinri.com/…/chapter8.html
… That being said, I view this as a “dual-miracle” as well, overlapping the Antiochian and Melkite jurisdictions, but it must be made clear that Myrna is Melkite, and her spiritual fathers are Catholic. Peace and God bless!
Click to expand...
Myrna WAS a Catholic, should I repost the link again for you ? or better off ask the Melkite Church that you go to, that if and when a women is married to an Orthodox would she follow her husband faith or not, that if you do not believe the statements of your fellow Catholics in the my previous post.

In the village where our summer house is, my sister-in-law (RC, Not from the east) she had to be converted to the Orthodox Faith before the marriage took place.

GOD bless you all †††
 
Ignatios said:
Myrna “WAS” a Melkite Catholic,
you (ghosty) should know better if you really practicing the Melkite Rite, that in the Middle East… AND, as it was listed in my previous post, that the women follows her husband’s Church always.
Here let me repost it for you since you neglected this part:

"… Again, especially for us in the Western world, we must understand
this caution in light of the Eastern mentality and their position that they
consider the Nazzours to be an Orthodox family, based on the father’s
religion…"
And again the above is not from an orthodox site nor it is by an Orthodox but by Catholics with a with a credible reference.
Now, Ghosty, where is your reference to your claims, in which I find always missing in most of, if not all of your statements. Maybe you should read what the text is saying and NOT what you want it to be.🤷

:o …
Again and again, you are wrong, maybe you should go back and read the document carefully, because IF you do, then, you will find out that the Orthodox Patriarchate were the first to analyse the Miracle of the Icon, and they were the first to CONFIRM it, AND they brought the Icon back to the Nazzour’s home in a dignitariall procession, Also the Easter (Pascha) that they were talking about when the Miracle happened it was the Orthodox Easter (Pascha) BUT not the stigmata .:rolleyes:
soufanieh.excerptsofinri.com/…/chapter8.html

Myrna WAS a Catholic, should I repost the link again for you ? or better off ask the Melkite Church that you go to, that if and when a women is married to an Orthodox would she follow her husband faith or not, that if you do not believe the statements of your fellow Catholics in the my previous post.

In the village where our summer house is, my sister-in-law (RC, Not from the east) she had to be converted to the Orthodox Faith before the marriage took place.

GOD bless you all †††
Click to expand...
…and her stigmata and the supposed apparitions don’t make you the slightest bit uneasy as an Orthodox Christian? it does for me…
 
trophybearer said:
…and her stigmata and the supposed apparitions don’t make you the slightest bit uneasy as an Orthodox Christian? it does for me…
Click to expand...
Could you please explain further, how does it make you uneasy, and why, or from what point it makes you uneasy, so I will know how to answer.

GOD Bless †††
 
Dear brother Ignatios,
Ignatios said:
Myrna “WAS” a Melkite Catholic

Now, Ghosty, where is your reference to your claims, in which I find always missing in most of, if not all of your statements. Maybe you should read what the text is saying and NOT what you want it to be.

Myrna WAS a Catholic, should I repost the link again for you ?
Click to expand...
Since, brother Ghosty has not been around for a while, I hope you nor he minds if I respond. Here is an excerpt from the text you posted:
Before going to the papal nuncio’s residence I asked Fr. Zahlaoui
this question: “Do you know whether any reaction has been given by
Pope John Paul II to Soufanieh?”
Response: “Rome does not say anything about Soufanieh because
Nicolas is Greek Orthodox. Myrna is Catholic. Rome listens but does not talk as Nicolas is Orthodox.”
Click to expand...
It would be relevant that Myrna is Catholic because the message from the Virgin is that Catholics and Orthodox should be united.👍

Blessings,
Marduk
 
mardukm said:
Dear brother Ignatios,

Since, brother Ghosty has not been around for a while, I hope you nor he minds if I respond. Here is an excerpt from the text you posted:

It would be relevant that Myrna is Catholic because the message from the Virgin is that Catholics and Orthodox should be united.👍

Blessings,
Marduk
Click to expand...
Indeed and obvious that Fr. Zahlaoui in those words (with all due respect to him, That if he indeed said those words, and to be honest, I doubt that he would have said those words because he knows better than that) he went against his and our own customs and traditions as we shall see from the same document, if you read the prior part to that in the same document… >>>("… Again, especially for us in the Western world, we must understand
this caution in light of the Eastern mentality and their position that they
consider the Nazzours to be an Orthodox family, based on the father’s
religion…") …you will find a clear evidence that some are trying to use this Miracle for their own advantage to claim a juridiction over the Miracle by cutting myrna off from her family which is Orthodox and in some way bring her back to her prior marriage status which was Melkite catholic, Anyhow the highlighted part of yours, would be correct if you are you are ready to consider that Myrna is NOT a member of Nicholas’s family which is Orthodox. that is just how things are in the Middle east.
And again, you claim to be Coptic, which it makes me wonder that if you truly are a Coptic from a Coptic Family, than how come you are ignorant of our Eastern tradition concerning the Marriage issue? this goes without saying in the Middle east that what ever the Husband is, so does the rest of the family is.
So the above in your respond from that document where it says that ( Myrna is Catholic ), and prior to that in the same document it says:
  1. “…the respect and importance of the father
    as head of the family    , the Orthodox Church looks upon the Nazzours as
    an Orthodox family…”
  2. “…*** It is important to remember that the Catholic
    hierarchy exercises great care when the heavenly messages are originating
    from an Orthodox home    *. The very home in which the apparitions have
    taken place…**.”
  3. And again “… we must understand
    this caution in light of the Eastern mentality and their position that they
    consider the Nazzours to be an Orthodox family, based on the father’s
    religion. The Catholic Church would not want to give the impression
    that they were superseding that position    . This is especially important
    when very good ecumenical relations exist in Damascus between the
    Greek Orthodox and the Catholics.    ”
BUT you and Ghosty certainly are trying to supersede that position,

So, in order to reconcile the “…Myrna is Catholic…” with all the above is to
  1. cut Myrna off from her Orthodox Family
  2. consider that the marriage did not take a place in an Orthodox Church
  3. or throw the document all together out the window except for the words Myrna is Catholic.
  4. Or accept that the fact that the words"…Myrna is catholic…" were used to somehow bring the Catholic name into this which is fine and great to do so, but to try to high jack it and make it a Melkite catholic as Ghosty attempted to do is both wrong and shame.
here is little piece of private info. My Mother WAS Melkite Catholic since the time she got married she became Orthodox, Now she is Orthodox, IT is what it is in the Middle East, the fact that you EX-Orthodox and Ghosty ties with the Melkite:confused: rejecting to both understand and accept this does not the change the facts in our Middle Eastern traditions and customs.

BESIDES, Ghosty at first implied that the ICON is Melkite Catholic, and it is not.

GOD Bless †††
 
Is the word “legalism” relevant here?😃

Stigmata is generally known as a “Catholic” miracle, often derided by EO. God permitted Myrna to experience this Grace.

God was obviously giving a message that goes beyond mere “Orthodox” or “Catholic” designations.

Myrna may be Orthodox according to the letter, but according to the Spirit, she seems to be BOTH Orthodox AND Catholic (an Orthodox in communion with Rome at heart :)).

Blessings
 
Ignatios: In addition to Mardukm’s point, there’s also the fact that Myrna’s spiritual advisors are Catholic:

soufanieh.com/ENGLISH/eeguides.htm

Her family is indeed Orthodox, but that doesn’t mean Myrna switched jurisdictions. All you’ve shown is that, by custom, the family as a whole is considered an Orthodox family; you’ve shown nothing to demonstrate that Myrna is no longer Catholic.

That being said, these are miracles that our Churches share, so argument over her status is absurd. The whole point of the Soufanieh message is reunion between our Churches.

Peace and God bless!
 
Diak said:
There are quite a few in the Ukrainian Catholic Church - Zarvanytsia, Univ, Hoshiv, Zhytomyr, just to name a couple. We have specific commemorations in our calendar for some of these as well. We also commemorate some from before the Union that are now in Orthodox hands such as the Pecherska Lavra and Pochaiv miraculous icons. I don’t really know about the other Eastern Catholic Churches.
Click to expand...
Don’t forget the most famous, Our Lady of Mariapoch…
mariapoch.org/ancestors/

http://www.atheavensgate.com/Come Bless The Lord/07- THE WEEPING ICON OF MARIAPOCH.jpg

%between%
 
Diak said:
There are quite a few in the Ukrainian Catholic Church - Zarvanytsia, Univ, Hoshiv, Zhytomyr, just to name a couple. We have specific commemorations in our calendar for some of these as well. We also commemorate some from before the Union that are now in Orthodox hands such as the Pecherska Lavra and Pochaiv miraculous icons. I don’t really know about the other Eastern Catholic Churches.
Click to expand...
Don’t forget the most famous… Our Lady of Mariapoc

mariapoch.org/

 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top