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rmtracey
Guest
i think we should start discussing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
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BrunoMaria
Guest
Yes, here are different ranks as there are Angels and Arch-Angels. Not only the Angels, but the humans in heaven too are of different ranks, as Jesus told us among others, in Mt 5,19.
Angels for different tasks such as Guardian Angels Jesus mentioned in Mt 18,10, and there are other, mighty Angels to fulfill God’s Holy Will.
We ourselves will be like Angels, as Jesus said in Mt 22,30 - again in different ranks, according to the strength of our belief and our deeds. Decisive are our deeds on earth, as we are told in among many others; Revelation 20,12-13+22,12.
So; actually ALL questions we put as to life here and in eternity, we are answered in the Bible and taught by our Church, according to Jesus Christ’s dogma, given to St. Peter to teach and pass on in Jesus’ Church and written down in the Gospel and John’s revelation - and before in the Old Covenant by God Himself, who gave His word to the Prophets.
But even though it’s all obvious and clear, it’s good to discuss all these questions over and over again in belief, for it’s these discussions that brings us to nearer understanding and so closer to God.
Yours
Bruno
Angels for different tasks such as Guardian Angels Jesus mentioned in Mt 18,10, and there are other, mighty Angels to fulfill God’s Holy Will.
We ourselves will be like Angels, as Jesus said in Mt 22,30 - again in different ranks, according to the strength of our belief and our deeds. Decisive are our deeds on earth, as we are told in among many others; Revelation 20,12-13+22,12.
So; actually ALL questions we put as to life here and in eternity, we are answered in the Bible and taught by our Church, according to Jesus Christ’s dogma, given to St. Peter to teach and pass on in Jesus’ Church and written down in the Gospel and John’s revelation - and before in the Old Covenant by God Himself, who gave His word to the Prophets.
But even though it’s all obvious and clear, it’s good to discuss all these questions over and over again in belief, for it’s these discussions that brings us to nearer understanding and so closer to God.
Yours
Bruno
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Cadellin
Guest
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BrunoMaria
Guest
Sorry, but not only because I’m German and don’t speak well enough English, but also otherwise - I simply don’t know what you “Cadellin” and “Nom the Wise” are talking about.
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Cadellin
Guest
The list says simply that God is greater than anything else in existence. Next to God are the angels. Below them are the human beings. (The Bible says that God created man a little lower than the angels.) Below them are the animals (including birds and fish), then the plants (flowers, trees) and least of all are the inanimate, non-living things, that is, the rocks and vaious minerals and elements that make up the universe.
I placed Our Lady between God and the angels because the Church has given Mary the title of Queen of the Angels.
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BrunoMaria
Guest
“a little lower than Angels” I’m not convinced about, since Angels are to serve not only God, but also humans. Certainly they are on a “higher level” than we right now, since they see God face to face; but we will to one day.
Below humans are rather than animals and plants - those who deny and blaspheme God, and will end up not with God. To them it would have been better not to be born.
That’s of course ridiculous, as we know as Jesus Christ Himself said, that there are of course Angels, as we also know that from very many verses in the Bible. Angels appear in every chapter of as well the Old and the New Covenant.
Yours
Bruno
Below humans are rather than animals and plants - those who deny and blaspheme God, and will end up not with God. To them it would have been better not to be born.
This is a word versified by the German poet Christian Morgenstern (*1871 †1914) - sadly enough an atheist who composed that poem starting such, by the headline: “Scolastic’s Problem”. Morgenstern answered his question by: “None” (would “sit on a needle”) because “Angels are the product of our imagination” as he thoughtlessly and even blasphemously thought.
That’s of course ridiculous, as we know as Jesus Christ Himself said, that there are of course Angels, as we also know that from very many verses in the Bible. Angels appear in every chapter of as well the Old and the New Covenant.
Yours
Bruno
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BrunoMaria
Guest
In a private mail I was told: How can you say Angels and humans are equal, as you know that we are sinners.……
Well, I didn’t include sinners, and I also admit, that we all are sinners, and that sin excludes from being like an angel
What I however meant is: After we died (which we all will have to, ever after the first sin first people committed) we will see that very day God. Jesus Christ. We will be judged and when our deeds allow it, we will be in heaven.
All humans who live in heaven with God, are Saints. Not only those Saints who are canonized (spoken Holy by the Pope, after a very long procedue of probe). This humans (we then) are like the Angels - not higher, not lower in “rank”.
Still there are ranks among Angels and “former” humans of course, as Jesus told us and stated above.
That’s also the reason, why we can talk to our Guardian Angel, who look like we do - as stated in the Bible (for instance in Acts 12,15, where they thought the man on the door was not St. Peter, but his Angel).
Altogether: We all; God, His Angels and all the Saints are very much more near and related to each other, than we imagine! All we have to do - is to believe, as Jesus so often told us: YOUR FAITH HAS SAVED YOU!
Yours
Bruno
Well, I didn’t include sinners, and I also admit, that we all are sinners, and that sin excludes from being like an angel
What I however meant is: After we died (which we all will have to, ever after the first sin first people committed) we will see that very day God. Jesus Christ. We will be judged and when our deeds allow it, we will be in heaven.
All humans who live in heaven with God, are Saints. Not only those Saints who are canonized (spoken Holy by the Pope, after a very long procedue of probe). This humans (we then) are like the Angels - not higher, not lower in “rank”.
Still there are ranks among Angels and “former” humans of course, as Jesus told us and stated above.
That’s also the reason, why we can talk to our Guardian Angel, who look like we do - as stated in the Bible (for instance in Acts 12,15, where they thought the man on the door was not St. Peter, but his Angel).
Altogether: We all; God, His Angels and all the Saints are very much more near and related to each other, than we imagine! All we have to do - is to believe, as Jesus so often told us: YOUR FAITH HAS SAVED YOU!
Yours
Bruno
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tqualey
Guest
Hi,Nom the Wise,
I realize that there are different choirs (ranks?) of angels listed in Scripture - but, I have never really seen or had much interest in these various groupings. I am quite happy that I have a Guardian Angel - Lord knows, mine has had to work extra shifts!
So, just how does one really utilize this information?
God bless
I realize that there are different choirs (ranks?) of angels listed in Scripture - but, I have never really seen or had much interest in these various groupings. I am quite happy that I have a Guardian Angel - Lord knows, mine has had to work extra shifts!
So, just how does one really utilize this information?
God bless
I’m not sure if it’s doctrine per se. I have a book called St. Michael and the Angels, published by TAN books (TAN has had a reputation as being overly conservative), and on the cover it says “compiled from approved sources” and yet it doesn’t bear an *Imprimatur *or a Nihil Obstat. The information about the “choirs” of angels is the same in my book as it is in the wikipedia article, which is why I posted it so I wouldn’t have to type so much.
So there is definitely a tradition that has arisen about the angelic choirs, promulgated by various saints over the years. But clearly no one is bound to believe it necessarily as “public” revelation. This might be a good question for Ask an Apologist.
And really, thanks for the challenge. I’d always assumed that my book had an Imprimitur and a Nihil Obstat. I’m a little crestfallen, but it’s good to know.
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BrunoMaria
Guest
Now, let me say, that all books that apart from explaining things in the Bible, or even dare to add things like presumed Ranks of Angels, (further than already revealed by Church’s doctrine) are useless words that rightly do not get the imprimatur of the Holy See. Neither would the Holy See bother to declaire a Nihil Obstat (=no objections) over it, as it’s simply of too little interest and lacks any serious doctrine - is so to speak stale and nobody can, as Tom writes; utilize this information, as it is no information, but just a simple private opinion, not aided by the Bible.
Now many told me (also here in CAF) that I’m one way biased on the Bible only, shielding myself with biblical verses, insisting on these verses only, which is blinkered.
Well, it would be blinkered, if there’d be nothing behind with us Catholics, but just such Verses. But we Catholics and many other serious and believing Christians know, that every single verse from the Bible is backed by libraries of indeed serious theological books written by Doctors of the Church and of no objections by the Holy See. See the Pope’s books about biblical verses; for instance in the Book “Jesus of Nazareth”.
So; when talking to a pagan, atheist or doubter, we all wouldn’t simply quote a bible-verse, but start off with the explanation of the verse we know by heart instead, adding - or even leaving away the verse at the end. I anyhow never know the number of the verse, but have to look it up
Back to the question of Angelic-ranks, it’s really valid and sufficient enough to know that biblical verses mention diverse ranks of Angels like legions of Angels, Arch-Angels, Guardian-Angels etc, for as Tom rightly mentions; how on earth could we ever utilize any further information on that subject, when even the “simple” knowledge of Angel’s existence in fact is too much for us. Let’s be satisfied with the sure knowledge and Jesus’ doctrine, that we all got an Guardian Angel (who obviously even looks like blood-related to us), and instead of being “a little crestfallen” that private opinions and books we read, don’t get the Holy See’s imprimatur, simply wait in joyful anticipation until we see the full truth - which we all will, if we believe it or not - the least atheist will, just as any weak or strong believer.
Yours
Bruno
Now many told me (also here in CAF) that I’m one way biased on the Bible only, shielding myself with biblical verses, insisting on these verses only, which is blinkered.
Well, it would be blinkered, if there’d be nothing behind with us Catholics, but just such Verses. But we Catholics and many other serious and believing Christians know, that every single verse from the Bible is backed by libraries of indeed serious theological books written by Doctors of the Church and of no objections by the Holy See. See the Pope’s books about biblical verses; for instance in the Book “Jesus of Nazareth”.
So; when talking to a pagan, atheist or doubter, we all wouldn’t simply quote a bible-verse, but start off with the explanation of the verse we know by heart instead, adding - or even leaving away the verse at the end. I anyhow never know the number of the verse, but have to look it up
Back to the question of Angelic-ranks, it’s really valid and sufficient enough to know that biblical verses mention diverse ranks of Angels like legions of Angels, Arch-Angels, Guardian-Angels etc, for as Tom rightly mentions; how on earth could we ever utilize any further information on that subject, when even the “simple” knowledge of Angel’s existence in fact is too much for us. Let’s be satisfied with the sure knowledge and Jesus’ doctrine, that we all got an Guardian Angel (who obviously even looks like blood-related to us), and instead of being “a little crestfallen” that private opinions and books we read, don’t get the Holy See’s imprimatur, simply wait in joyful anticipation until we see the full truth - which we all will, if we believe it or not - the least atheist will, just as any weak or strong believer.
Yours
Bruno
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tqualey
Guest
Hi, BrunoMaria,
Good post!
God bless
Good post!
God bless
Now, let me say, that all books that apart from explaining things in the Bible, or even dare to add things like presumed Ranks of Angels, (further than already revealed by Church’s doctrine) are useless words that rightly do not get the imprimatur of the Holy See. Neither would the Holy See bother to declaire a Nihil Obstat (=no objections) over it, as it’s simply of too little interest and lacks any serious doctrine - is so to speak stale and nobody can, as Tom writes; utilize this information, as it is no information, but just a simple private opinion, not aided by the Bible.
Now many told me (also here in CAF) that I’m one way biased on the Bible only, shielding myself with biblical verses, insisting on these verses only, which is blinkered.
Well, it would be blinkered, if there’d be nothing behind with us Catholics, but just such Verses. But we Catholics and many other serious and believing Christians know, that every single verse from the Bible is backed by libraries of indeed serious theological books written by Doctors of the Church and of no objections by the Holy See. See the Pope’s books about biblical verses; for instance in the Book “Jesus of Nazareth”.
So; when talking to a pagan, atheist or doubter, we all wouldn’t simply quote a bible-verse, but start off with the explanation of the verse we know by heart instead, adding - or even leaving away the verse at the end. I anyhow never know the number of the verse, but have to look it up
Back to the question of Angelic-ranks, it’s really valid and sufficient enough to know that biblical verses mention diverse ranks of Angels like legions of Angels, Arch-Angels, Guardian-Angels etc, for as Tom rightly mentions; how on earth could we ever utilize any further information on that subject, when even the “simple” knowledge of Angel’s existence in fact is too much for us. Let’s be satisfied with the sure knowledge and Jesus’ doctrine, that we all got an Guardian Angel (who obviously even looks like blood-related to us), and instead of being “a little crestfallen” that private opinions and books we read, don’t get the Holy See’s imprimatur, simply wait in joyful anticipation until we see the full truth - which we all will, if we believe it or not - the least atheist will, just as any weak or strong believer.
Yours
Bruno
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Nom_the_Wise
Guest
The OP asks “Are there different ranks of angels?” I answered with the information I have read which has a degree of acceptance in the Church. What you do with this information is up to you. As far as I know, it is not “public” revelation, so if you choose not to believe it you will not endanger your salvation in the slightest. I would rank this information in the same catagory with the spread of St. Christopher medals, which are inherently useless as there is no evidence that a St. Christopher ever existed, but people wear them regardless.Hi,Nom the Wise,
I realize that there are different choirs (ranks?) of angels listed in Scripture - but, I have never really seen or had much interest in these various groupings. I am quite happy that I have a Guardian Angel - Lord knows, mine has had to work extra shifts!
So, just how does one really utilize this information?
God bless
It’s a nice story. None of us were there before the creation of matter to know much about the angels, but there is a tradition which I have passed along, which isn’t an impediment to belief nor is it a requirement.
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BrunoMaria
Guest
As to the OP’s three questions: “Nom the Wise” answered the first question of this Angel-Topic by avoiding the three questions; instead listed the Angel’s official names, like: “nine ‘choirs’ of angles…. Seraphim, Cherubim, Thrones, Powers, Principalities, Archangels, Guardian Angels”
Asked was however:
1.) I …want to …… someday … be an angel.
2.) will I be more happy in heaven?
3.) Are …some angels happier … or more glorious than other angels?
Though it’s great we all gave a lot of adding answers which where not even asked,
let me try to answer the original 3 questions - that are actually answered in the Gospel.
To
1.)
He who lives in Jesus’ doctrine will be like an angel Mt 22,30: You will be like the Angels in heaven
2.)
definitely so, for 1Cor 2,9: “What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man conceived, what God has prepared for those who love him”
3.)
Neither we (if we are at all allowed to be in heaven) nor the Angels, are more happy than others. For “more happy than…” includes the possibility of unrest and discontent. Both is impossible when in God’s presence even then, when we are the least in heaven. There there are “least ones” we know of Mt 11,11: among those born of women there has risen no one greater than John the Baptist; yet he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
Actually we get all our questions answered by the Book of all books - the Bible, and our Church’s main task is to teach and enshrine God’s word, which is the one and only real truth we got and that’s absolutely decisive for our life in eternity.
Yours
Bruno
Asked was however:
1.) I …want to …… someday … be an angel.
2.) will I be more happy in heaven?
3.) Are …some angels happier … or more glorious than other angels?
Though it’s great we all gave a lot of adding answers which where not even asked,
let me try to answer the original 3 questions - that are actually answered in the Gospel.
To
1.)
He who lives in Jesus’ doctrine will be like an angel Mt 22,30: You will be like the Angels in heaven
2.)
definitely so, for 1Cor 2,9: “What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man conceived, what God has prepared for those who love him”
3.)
Neither we (if we are at all allowed to be in heaven) nor the Angels, are more happy than others. For “more happy than…” includes the possibility of unrest and discontent. Both is impossible when in God’s presence even then, when we are the least in heaven. There there are “least ones” we know of Mt 11,11: among those born of women there has risen no one greater than John the Baptist; yet he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
Actually we get all our questions answered by the Book of all books - the Bible, and our Church’s main task is to teach and enshrine God’s word, which is the one and only real truth we got and that’s absolutely decisive for our life in eternity.
Yours
Bruno
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