Are there discrepancies among the gospel accounts of the last supper?

[graceandglory]

1. Are there discrepancies among the four Gospel accounts of the Last Supper?

A friend brought this question up. I never thought about it.

2. Are there factual differences or just stylistic?

3. How do you explain “synoptic” gospels vs. the Gospel of John?

**4. Why is the Bread of Life discourse separated from John’s account of the Last Supper?

1. (And most importantly maybe) Can you direct me to a resource that I can read this for myself, and share it with this friend of mine?**

 

[Erich]

I always liked Scott Hahn’s The Hunt for the Fourth Cup.

 

[buffalo]

The Gospels Are Historical - THE AUTHORS OF THE GOSPELS

 

[Flame_of_Christ]

I would say that John 6 “the bread of life” discourse is truly magnificent when taken in relation to what Jesus said about receiving His body and blood in the synoptic gospels. Isn’t it so amazing how important the last supper / the giving of Jesus to us is? He is our life and wanted to make pains to be able to give Himself to give us life.

Why else is the last suppoer so important is jewish history first (the passover) and the true fullfillment of it in Christ Jesus our Lord.

“Behold the Lamb of God”

 

[diggerdomer]

1. Are there discrepancies among the four Gospel accounts of the Last Supper?

Well, yes and no. Yes if you read the 4 accounts they do not all contain the same details. No if you read the 4 accounts they certainly do not contradict each other.

Are there factual differences or just stylistic?

Both

How do you explain “synoptic” gospels vs. the Gospel of John?

The Synoptic Gospels contain clear literary dependencies and similarities. The Gospel of John is significantly different from a literary point of view.

Why is the Bread of Life discourse separated from John’s account of the Last Supper?

Because that’s the way the author of the Gospel chose to write.

Can you direct me to a resource that I can read this for myself, and share it with this friend of mine?

Any good Biblical commentary (Jerome Biblical Commentary, Collegeville Biblical Commentary, Harper Collins Biblical Commentary, Anchor Bible Commentary). I’d also recommend Brown’s “Introduction to the New Testament.”

 

[patg]

The gospels aren’t first person eyewitness accounts - read the Instruction on the Historical Truth of the Gospels by the Pontifical Biblical Commission and Pope Paul VI.

 

[buffalo]

The gospels aren’t first person eyewitness accounts - read the Instruction on the Historical Truth of the Gospels by the Pontifical Biblical Commission and Pope Paul VI.

Matthew and John were eyewitness accounts. Mark was secretary to Peter and received it firsthand from Peter. Luke was secretary to Paul. Matthew and Luke coordinated their work.

 

[dnomyaR]

I feel much more comfortable asking this here then to someone in person.

What makes a synoptic gospel synoptic? Are synoptic gospels based on information passed on? I’m just guessing, I don’t know. Thanks for any help.

 

[diggerdomer]

I feel much more comfortable asking this here then to someone in person.

What makes a synoptic gospel synoptic? Are synoptic gospels based on information passed on? I’m just guessing, I don’t know. Thanks for any help.

Comes from the Greek meaning “with the same eye” essentially. Meaning, the narratives of Matthew and Mark and Luke follow each other quite closely, overall, and share a similar literary structure. So, those 3 became known as the Synoptic Gospels. John, on the other hand, has a very different literary style and narrative structure.

All 4 Gospels are based on information passed on.

 

[Nita]

**
**4. Why is the Bread of Life discourse separated from John’s account of the Last Supper?

****Because the Bread of Life discourse was not given at the time of the Last Supper. It was given earlier – the day after Jesus fed the 5000.

 

[benedictus2]

1. Are there discrepancies among the four Gospel accounts of the Last Supper?

A friend brought this question up. I never thought about it.

2. Are there factual differences or just stylistic?

3. How do you explain “synoptic” gospels vs. the Gospel of John?

4. Why is the Bread of Life discourse separated from John’s account of the Last Supper?

5. (And most importantly maybe) Can you direct me to a resource that I can read this for myself, and share it with this friend of mine?

I think one of the differences between John and the synoptics is that John’s last supper is not actually a seder meal since the meal happens before the passover whereas the other gospels all relate that this is the seder.

Also, John does not have an institution of the Eucharist narrative (he has the washing of the feet). The Bread of Life discourse happened around passover time but I think a year before the last supper.

If you recall in John 6, the disciples did not get it either. The penny would have only dropped during the last supper when they recall that the year previous He had given them that discourse.

If you read the synoptics without John 6 in mind the institution narrative does not make sense.

There they were having the seder then Jesus goes "take eat, this my body, drink my blood’. None of them went “say what???!!!”. If you read the preceding chapters and verses there was no preparation at all for the institution. Without John 6, the last supper account does not really make sense and would not have made sense to the disciples.

The one main difference as I see it is the timing. If the last supper is the seder then that means Jesus died on the day of the passover. But John’s account situates the crucifixion on the prepraration day when the lambs are slaughtered for for the passover. So for me this is the only disjoint somehow.

 

[buffalo]

John’s Gospel fills in and completes the other three Gospels.

 

[Nita]

I think one of the differences between John and the synoptics is that John’s last supper is not actually a seder meal since the meal happens before the passover whereas the other gospels all relate that this is the seder.

…
The one main difference as I see it is the timing. If the last supper is the seder then that means Jesus died on the day of the passover. But John’s account situates the crucifixion on the prepraration day when the lambs are slaughtered for for the passover. So for me this is the only disjoint somehow.

Thought you might enjoy this 2007 Holy Thursday sermon of Pope Benedict, concerning the apparent discrepancies in the date of the Last Supper:

Quote:

…There is an apparent discrepancy in the Evangelists’ accounts, between John’s Gospel on the one hand, and what on the other Mathew, Mark and Luke tell us.

According to John, Jesus died on the Cross at the very moment when the Passover lambs were being sacrificed in the temple. The death of Jesus and the sacrifice of the lambs coincided. However, this means that He must have died the day before Easter and could not, therefore, have celebrated the Passover meal in person–this , at any rate, is how it appears.

According to the three Synoptic Gospels, the Last Supper of Jesus was instead a Passover meal into whose traditional form He integrated the innovation of the gift of His Body and Blood.

This contradiction seemed unsolvable until a few years ago. The majority of exegetes were of the opinion that John was reluctant to tell us the true historical date of Jesus’ death, but rather chose a symbolic date to highlight the deeper truth: Jesus is the new true Lamb who poured out His Blood for us all.

In the meantime, the discovery of the [Dead Sea] Scrolls at Qumran has led us to a possible and convincing solution which, although is not yet accepted by everyone, is a highly plausible hypotheses. We can now say that John’s account is historically precise.

Jesus truly shed His blood on the eve of Easter at the time of the immolation of the lambs.

In all likelihood, however, he celebrated the Passover with his disciples in accordance with the Qumran calendar, hence, at least one day earlier; He celebrated it without a lamb, like the Qumran community which did not recognize Herod’s temple and was waiting for the new temple.

Consequently, Jesus celebrated the Passover without a lamb–no, not without a lamb: instead of the lamb He gave Himself, His Body and His Blood. Thus, he anticipated his death in a manner consistent with his words: “No one takes [my life] from me, but I lay it down of my own accord” (Jn 10:18).

End quote.

(Bolding done by me.)

 

[benedictus2]

Thought you might enjoy this 2007 Holy Thursday sermon of Pope Benedict, concerning the apparent discrepancies in the date of the Last Supper:
v
v

This contradiction seemed unsolvable until a few years ago. The majority of exegetes were of the opinion that John was reluctant to tell us the true historical date of Jesus’ death, but rather chose a symbolic date to highlight the deeper truth: Jesus is the new true Lamb who poured out His Blood for us all.

In the meantime, the discovery of the [Dead Sea] Scrolls at Qumran has led us to a possible and convincing solution which, although is not yet accepted by everyone, is a highly plausible hypotheses. We can now say that John’s account is historically precise.

Jesus truly shed His blood on the eve of Easter at the time of the immolation of the lambs.

In all likelihood, however, he celebrated the Passover with his disciples in accordance with the Qumran calendar, hence, at least one day earlier; He celebrated it without a lamb, like the Qumran community which did not recognize Herod’s temple and was waiting for the new temple.

Consequently, Jesus celebrated the Passover without a lamb–no, not without a lamb: instead of the lamb He gave Himself, His Body and His Blood. Thus, he anticipated his death in a manner consistent with his words: “No one takes [my life] from me, but I lay it down of my own accord” (Jn 10:18).

End quote.

(Bolding done by me.)

VERY, VERY, VERY MUCH APPRECIATED! THANK YOU SO MUCH:thumbsup:.

Isn’t he just brilliant! Thank you Lord for our wonderful Popel

 

[patg]

Matthew and John were eyewitness accounts. Mark was secretary to Peter and received it firsthand from Peter. Luke was secretary to Paul. Matthew and Luke coordinated their work.

This is not church doctrine.

 

[NHInsider]

Thought you might enjoy this 2007 Holy Thursday sermon of Pope Benedict, concerning the apparent discrepancies in the date of the Last Supper:

Consequently, Jesus celebrated the Passover without a lamb–no, not without a lamb: instead of the lamb He gave Himself, His Body and His Blood. Thus, he anticipated his death in a manner consistent with his words: “No one takes [my life] from me, but I lay it down of my own accord” (Jn 10:18).

End quote.

This is very cool, as I gave a lecture some years ago in which I posited the same idea - that Jesus deliberately celebrated the Passover early with His disciples because He knew what was coming. The Gospel quotes Him saying He “greatly desired to share the Passover with them.” I didn’t know the bit about the Qumram tradition.

Think about what it would have been like for them, being sent to prepare for the Passover, and then sitting at that table when He passed around the bread which ought to have been topped with the sacrificial lamb and said “this is My Body.” Their heads must have been swimming!!

Anyway, what I wanted to add was that by the time John wrote his gospel the synoptic accounts - and Paul’s version in I Corinthians - were already in circulation and in liturgical use, so he did not see any need to repeat it. What he gave were additional details and theological overlay, as he did with most of his gospel.

 

[graceandglory]

Thank you to everyone who took the time to post to this thread!!!
I am not closing it now, I just wanted to say thanks, and that you have given me a lot to go by, to read and study and to think about!
Thank you!!!

That bit by PB16… (Thanks!)
Even the dating of the gospels…another

Thanks!!!

 

[juliamajor]

Not discrepancies- points of view. Any event will have several points of view. writers don’t paintings about the same subject.A painting of the Last supper by Fra Angelico, will be way different then one by Bosch, Dali or Klee. same subject but viewed much differently by each one’s imagination and style.

 

[buffalo]

This is not church doctrine.

Source?

 

[patg]

Source?

You are the one who stated it as fact.

There is no document to go to that states “the following are not doctrines…” (but it would be nice if there were - I think a lot of people would be really surprised).