M
Melchior_1
Guest
This isn’t acceptable regardless of whose doing music at Mass. Guitars, voices, cantors, decorations, alter servers. All this stuff should be worked on and dealt with before Mass.
- Status
M
maryjk
Guest
The confusion was from the “bread and wine” rather than “the body and blood.”
H
hudson
Guest
Sorry about that. I misspoke trying to type on an ipad. I was very flustered yesterday from the whole experience. I tried to call the Priest this morning, but today is his day off. I will let you guys know what he says. Any suggestions on how I should approach this with him?
S
Samuel63
Guest
This priest is deep into abuse and knows it. If you proceed with a heavy handed approach, you will be dismissed.
If you say and do nothing then exactly nothing will happen as well. So what to do?
Number one, stop all but a token donation to this parish and convince two or three others to do the same. Transfer this same money to a group that is true to the magisterium and evangelizing in our communities. These are the ones running silent retreats, and traditional celebrations such as a May Crowning.
Second, check out these references. Print a relevant section and hand it to the priest when you meet. Be gentle, but firm. Bless this priest as you depart.
· CONSTITUTION ON THE SACRED LITURGY - SACROSANCTUM CONCILIUM, article 22
vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19631204_sacrosanctum-concilium_en.html
Therefore no other person, even if he be a priest, may add, remove, or change anything in the liturgy on his own authority.
· Sacram Liturgiam; Tres Abhinc Annos; CIC 841, 846; article 11 (X1)
vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/motu_proprio/documents/hf_p-vi_motu-proprio_19640125_sacram-liturgiam_en.html
XI. Finally we wish to emphasize that—beyond what we in this apostolic letter on liturgical matters have either changed or have ordered carried out at the established time—regulation of the liturgy comes solely within the authority of the Church: that is, of this Apostolic See and, in accordance with the law, of the bishop. Consequently, absolutely no one else, not even a priest, can on his own initiative add or subtract or change anything in liturgical matters (CONSTITUTION, Article 22, paragraphs 1 and 3).
· Inaestimabile Donum, CSDW, April 3, 1980, Foreward (last paragraph)
adoremus.org/InaestimabileDonum.html
The faithful have a right to a true Liturgy, which means the Liturgy desired and laid down by the Church, which has in fact indicated where adaptations may be made as called for by pastoral requirements in different places or by different groups of people. Undue experimentation, changes and creativity bewilder the faithful. The use of unauthorized texts means a loss of the necessary connection between the lex orandi and the lex credendi. The Second Vatican Council’s admonition in this regard must be remembered: “No person, even if he be a priest, may add, remove or change anything in the Liturgy on his own authority.”(8) And Paul VI of venerable memory stated that: “Anyone who takes advantage of the reform to indulge in arbitrary experiments is wasting energy and offending the ecclesial sense.”(9)
· Liturgicae Instaurationes, Instruction on the orderly carrying out of the Constitution on the Liturgy, September 5, 1970; article 1
adoremus.org/LiturgicaeInstaurationes.html
The effectiveness of liturgy does not lie in experimenting with rites and altering them over and over, nor in a continuous reductionism, but solely in entering more deeply into the word of God and the mystery being celebrated. It is the presence of these two that authenticates the Church’s rites, not what some priest decides, indulging his own preferences.
Keep in mind, then, that the private recasting of ritual introduced by an individual priest insults the dignity of the believer and lays the way open to individual and idiosyncratic forms in celebrations that are in fact the property of the whole Church.
The ministry of the priest is the ministry of the universal Church: its exercise is impossible without obedience, hierarchic communion, ant the will to serve Got and neighbor. The hierarchic character and sacramental power of the liturgy as well as the respectful service owed to the believing community demand that the priest fulfill his role in worship as the “faithful servant ant steward of the mysteries of God”. [9] Without imposing any rite not decreed and sanctioned by the liturgical books.
If you say and do nothing then exactly nothing will happen as well. So what to do?
Number one, stop all but a token donation to this parish and convince two or three others to do the same. Transfer this same money to a group that is true to the magisterium and evangelizing in our communities. These are the ones running silent retreats, and traditional celebrations such as a May Crowning.
Second, check out these references. Print a relevant section and hand it to the priest when you meet. Be gentle, but firm. Bless this priest as you depart.
· CONSTITUTION ON THE SACRED LITURGY - SACROSANCTUM CONCILIUM, article 22
vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19631204_sacrosanctum-concilium_en.html
Therefore no other person, even if he be a priest, may add, remove, or change anything in the liturgy on his own authority.
· Sacram Liturgiam; Tres Abhinc Annos; CIC 841, 846; article 11 (X1)
vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/motu_proprio/documents/hf_p-vi_motu-proprio_19640125_sacram-liturgiam_en.html
XI. Finally we wish to emphasize that—beyond what we in this apostolic letter on liturgical matters have either changed or have ordered carried out at the established time—regulation of the liturgy comes solely within the authority of the Church: that is, of this Apostolic See and, in accordance with the law, of the bishop. Consequently, absolutely no one else, not even a priest, can on his own initiative add or subtract or change anything in liturgical matters (CONSTITUTION, Article 22, paragraphs 1 and 3).
· Inaestimabile Donum, CSDW, April 3, 1980, Foreward (last paragraph)
adoremus.org/InaestimabileDonum.html
The faithful have a right to a true Liturgy, which means the Liturgy desired and laid down by the Church, which has in fact indicated where adaptations may be made as called for by pastoral requirements in different places or by different groups of people. Undue experimentation, changes and creativity bewilder the faithful. The use of unauthorized texts means a loss of the necessary connection between the lex orandi and the lex credendi. The Second Vatican Council’s admonition in this regard must be remembered: “No person, even if he be a priest, may add, remove or change anything in the Liturgy on his own authority.”(8) And Paul VI of venerable memory stated that: “Anyone who takes advantage of the reform to indulge in arbitrary experiments is wasting energy and offending the ecclesial sense.”(9)
· Liturgicae Instaurationes, Instruction on the orderly carrying out of the Constitution on the Liturgy, September 5, 1970; article 1
adoremus.org/LiturgicaeInstaurationes.html
The effectiveness of liturgy does not lie in experimenting with rites and altering them over and over, nor in a continuous reductionism, but solely in entering more deeply into the word of God and the mystery being celebrated. It is the presence of these two that authenticates the Church’s rites, not what some priest decides, indulging his own preferences.
Keep in mind, then, that the private recasting of ritual introduced by an individual priest insults the dignity of the believer and lays the way open to individual and idiosyncratic forms in celebrations that are in fact the property of the whole Church.
The ministry of the priest is the ministry of the universal Church: its exercise is impossible without obedience, hierarchic communion, ant the will to serve Got and neighbor. The hierarchic character and sacramental power of the liturgy as well as the respectful service owed to the believing community demand that the priest fulfill his role in worship as the “faithful servant ant steward of the mysteries of God”. [9] Without imposing any rite not decreed and sanctioned by the liturgical books.
S
Samuel63
Guest
Another point, when this meeting is over, send an e-mail with a concise summary and the relevant links to church documents to the bishop.
When no response is received, send a letter to The Congregation for Divine Worship and The Sacraments. You can find the address on the internet.
Make sure their personnel file is overflowing in the vatican office. This is how change will take place.
When no response is received, send a letter to The Congregation for Divine Worship and The Sacraments. You can find the address on the internet.
Make sure their personnel file is overflowing in the vatican office. This is how change will take place.
H
hudson
Guest
I was just visiting this Church while visiting my family. I am in a different city now. I was planning on calling him tomorrow morning and discussing this. Do you think it is a good idea?
P
Phemie
Guest
Not really. You don’t belong to the parish and the priest doesn’t know you from Adam. It’s one thing to approach a priest after Mass and politely ask about something you found puzzling, but to call him from another parish a few days after the fact?
I have a question about the youth who gave out Communion. Did they do so reverently? An EMHC should always perform his/her ministry reverently but to do so doesn’t require one to be an adult.
While I agree that on the surface it seems as though the priest just wanted to involve as many kids as possible after this camp, maybe he did have a valid reason to sit while they gave Communion.
H
hudson
Guest
I feel as though I am required to call and charitably let him know about my concerns. I have come to the conclusion if people don’t speak up, then things like this will persist. I will let you know what he says after I call.
H
hudson
Guest
I just got off the phone with the Priest and told him my concerns about all that happened. I specifically told him about the lack of reverence. I asked about the sign of peace and the Lord’s Prayer. He said that this is a once a year Mass for the kids in this camp. He said that kids like to celebrate the Mass in a more “feelings” type of manner. I asked him why they don’t get instructors/sponsors that can teach the kids how to act reverently since they are the future of the Church. I asked him how will the Church look in 30 years if this is the only way kids are taught to worship. He didn’t really respond to this question. The last thing I asked about was the kids handing out the Eucharist. He stated that the kids were already chosen to be emhc’s and he decided to let them do it alone. He stated he did not believe this was an abuse, but wasn’t sure. So maybe he will now go look into it. He said he usually celebrates a reverent Mass and hopes I will come back. He thanked me for the concerns so next year he can make changes so the Eucharist is not given a lack of reverence(his words). I told him I wasn’t trying to offend him or his Church, but I had concerns I had to get out. He understood and thanked me. I feel very good about calling him.
C
Cranch
Guest
Well-handled hudson. That took guts.
T
TheMc
Guest
Indeed. Kudos to you!
- Status