Are these infant baptisms valid

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So I was listening to NPR this morning, and there was a story about how Ireland is no longer as Catholic as it used to be. They interviewed a woman who was raised Catholic, but along with her life companion (she’s not married to him), she has no interest in being Catholic whatsoever. BUT…in Ireland, if you want to have an edge in the education for your children, it helps if they are Catholic. So the interviewee admitted to lying to the priest when he asked her why she wants to have her child baptized, given that he knew she was an unwed mother who no longer attended Mass. She subsequently also had her other child baptized on these fictitious grounds.

Now, before you reply that all a sacrament needs is a proper minister, intention, matter, and form, let’s not forget that there also needs to be an expectation that the child will be raised in the faith. (That is WHY the priest asked the Irish mom why she was getting her child baptized.)
 
The baptisms are valid .

Yes , there needs to be an expectation that the child will be raised in the faith before the child id baptised .

The priest or other minister relies on the honesty of the parent regarding that .

I have been to baptisms where I know that the parents are not going to raise the children in the faith , and they tell the priest that they are , but the priest accepts that the parents are speaking truthfully . But the baptisms are valid .
 
Who do you think she was lying to when she lied to the priest if not to God himself?
 
In Ireland the vast majority of schools are under the Catholic church patronage and do teach some religion as well as prepare children for sacraments, communion etc, but they do not desciminate against non Catholics attending.
There is a movement in Ireland that want to get Catholics out of Schools and they come up with lies and poor me stories to eat away at the school catholic connection, They lie and tell stories of how children are refused and tell us how unfair it is, well some bright spark came up with Educate together for children of no religious affiliation. Just last week I heard of one of these schools which by the way are not a patch on the Catholics schools as we have the best education in the world but the children had sex ed and many parents took their kids out of school and made a huge deal about it, now it was not the sex ed they objected too but the fact that is was taught by a Catholic.
so watch this space the war in Ireland goes on until all trace of God is gone, they are silently working the hospitals and loudly working the Nuns., Pray for Ireland as it is under a demonic attack.
 
TheAdvocate197 said:
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There are three aspects to a sacrament: validity, liceity, and fruitfulness. Although receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit with baptism, it will require assent to the learned faith at the age of reason. The hope is that catechesis for First Penance and Eucharist will likely occur in the second grace. The fruitfulness is the gifts of faith, hope, and charity, and remaining free from mortal sin.
 
TheAdvocate197 said:
Now, before you reply that all a sacrament needs is a proper minister, intention, matter, and form, let’s not forget that there also needs to be an expectation that the child will be raised in the faith. (That is WHY the priest asked the Irish mom why she was getting her child baptized.)
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The baptisms are valid. While she may have duped the priest and has no intention of bringing up the children in the Catholic faith that does not make the baptisms invalid.
 
TheAdvocate197 said:
So I was listening to NPR this morning, and there was a story about how Ireland is no longer as Catholic as it used to be. They interviewed a woman who was raised Catholic, but along with her life companion (she’s not married to him), she has no interest in being Catholic whatsoever. BUT…in Ireland, if you want to have an edge in the education for your children, it helps if they are Catholic. So the interviewee admitted to lying to the priest when he asked her why she wants to have her child baptized, given that he knew she was an unwed mother who no longer attended Mass. She subsequently also had her other child baptized on these fictitious grounds.

Now, before you reply that all a sacrament needs is a proper minister, intention, matter, and form, let’s not forget that there also needs to be an expectation that the child will be raised in the faith. (That is WHY the priest asked the Irish mom why she was getting her child baptized.)
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The baptism would be illicit but not invalid.

This is why most protestant baptisms are valid, even though they’re obviously not of the Catholic faith.
 
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Say a couple of atheist adults get baptized merely for appearances in a given country because they see they would gain some sort of advantage (financial, political, whatever). They are going through the motions with the sacrament, but don’t have a shred of faith. Is that valid? I think everyone here would say no.
 
It would still be a valid. The priest has no way of knowing this.
 
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Baptism is a sacrament of faith! So only externals matter here! No way would it be valid. So they don’t even believe in Jesus and yet their sins get washed away?!
 
They are intending to receive what baptism gives, even if they think it gives nothing, just as a Baptist would have intent enough to receive even though they would have a very different idea of what baptism is about than a Catholic. If the atheists later came to realise that there is actually a God and wanted to join the Church they would probably not be baptised again. Incomplete understanding of error in belief does not make it invalid
 
. What makes sacrament valid is form (in this case water) and substance or words used (I baptize you in the name of the Father ,Son and Holy Spirit…) If a person lies about believe it doesn’t change if it’s valid or not.
 
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The Baptist has faith. The atheists have none. Of course in the latter case it’s invalid.

What do you know? Today I learned that you don’t even have to believe in God to be validly baptized! Only the ritual makes it valid! Aw, c’mon!
 
TheAdvocate197 said:
What do you know? Today I learned that you don’t even have to believe in God to be validly baptized! Only the ritual makes it valid! Aw, c’mon!
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An atheist can perform a valid Christian baptism.

CCC 1256 The ordinary ministers of Baptism are the bishop and priest and, in the Latin Church, also the deacon. In case of necessity, anyone, even a non-baptized person, with the required intention, can baptize , by using the Trinitarian baptismal formula. The intention required is to will to do what the Church does when she baptizes. The Church finds the reason for this possibility in the universal saving will of God and the necessity of Baptism for salvation.
 
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If you want to know if God dispensed His graces to the child, merely ask Him.
 
In case of necessity, anyone, even a non-baptized person, with the required intention, can BAPTIZE, by using the Trinitarian baptismal formula. (CCC 1256)

I’m not talking here about the person PERFORMING the baptism, I’m taking about the person undergoing the baptism. If he or she has no faith at all, that baptism cannot be valid. All the responders so far are looking at this from an external, technical standpoint.

So take a person who is an adult who has ZERO faith, and in fact, internally repudiates the Church. He gets baptized, which is a sacrament of repentance, but he doesn’t not repent at all. For him, by this ritual he is just getting wet as far as he is concerned.

So are you saying that this person’s sins are washed away? That such a person is now a member of the Church? Is now an adopted son of God?

Really? So I guess you can be washed away of your sins by God without desiring his forgiveness or believing in him at all!
 
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