Are these novelties abuses?

[JKirkLVNV]

It was a children’s mass, and the gospel thing was read by the PA before the introit, probably not an abuse. I just thought it was innapropriate for him to allign Christ with Dr. Seuss. Too much dumbing down, even for children.

Bleah, “para-liturgical” as a “pre-liturgical” rite? Sounds like a bad idea.

 

[rwoehmke]

I often wonder why Catholics who are looking for or satisfied with an innovative, ad libed, anything goes, make it up as you go along worship service or maybe at best communion service, don’t just check out the churches of the reformation. I’m sure that there are many Protestant churches out there who cater to those tastes. Seriously, I’m curious as to why people stay Catholic if they are not satisfied with following the approved liturgy of the Church. Anybody want to try to tackle that one?

First of all most average Catholics wouldn’t recognize an abuse if it slapped them in the face. Second, some older folks who know better don’t get excited because there has been so much change in their world and Church that they are addicted to the uncertainty. Then consider, they have always been Catholics, their parents were Catholics, why change? They are used to being Catholic and that kind of change is uncomfortable and disconcerting. I have certainly never belonged to the Liturgy Police, but then my parish has never been deviant, except in mostly minor instances. We did stand through the Eucharistic Prayers for over twenty years, but most of us thought the Bishop had approved the practice ( he didn’t, but he let it go on never the less). After twenty years with no variation in the practice, it just felt right. I am in total sympathy with some of the folks who report all the weird stuff going on out there. The members of the body are indeed adrift in more ways than one, but they like being Catholic. Its traditional ya know.

 

[m134e5]

When my mother tried to grab my hand during the Lord’s Prayer, I pulled it away. She disaproved, and I told her it was a litugical abuse.

She responded, "Do you really think God won’t frown upon your refusal to hold someone’s hand just because you want to follow some obscure rule? I think God would rather you not reject your neighbor."

I would have responded the same way. Most of these people do not know any better (It isn’t forbidden- it just isn’t called for. Because it isn’t called for, you shouldn’t do it- but it’s not as bad as doing something that is explicitly forbidden). I do not hold hands during the Our Father unless there are people (who are not strangers) with me who I know I will offend by not holding their hand (I’m not going to jerk my hand away from a friend, and risk offending them right before both of us go up to receive communion). I can still devote my attention to God if I’m holding someone’s hand just once during the Our Father- I will explain to them why I prefer not to after Mass, and then won’t again.

Following rules is very important, but be careful not to forget the purpose of Going to Mass- and God’s two greatest commandments.

 

[johnnykins]

If I read this correctly, the first order of business after receiving the Lord in the celebration of His Holy Incarnation, was to arrive home, go on the internet and spread the cheer about the celebrant’s abuses. O HOLY night!

God’s peace, and Merry Christmas!

Absolutely terrible that a priest would so abuse the rubrics and text as to cause such scandal. I’m so glad you must agree that this sort of liturgical abuse must stop so that the faithful are not driven to complain about such gross self-serving manhandling of the liturgy. IMAGINE a priest being so arrogant as to do that to the Mass!! Christmas Mass at that.

The scandal caused by these abuses certainly is terrible.

 

[netmilsmom]

Absolutely terrible that a priest would so abuse the rubrics and text as to cause such scandal. I’m so glad you must agree that this sort of liturgical abuse must stop so that the faithful are not driven to complain about such gross self-serving manhandling of the liturgy. IMAGINE a priest being so arrogant as to do that to the Mass!! Christmas Mass at that.

The scandal caused by these abuses certainly is terrible.

One day, I would love to come onto CAF and see nothing but praise for the Wonderful Liturgy celebrated in EVERY parish.

Until then, when I see some poor soul brought to venting on an internet board, I pray that the priest who would cause such scandal to that parish, to be enlightened.

Our Lady of Akita, pray for us.

 

[the_phoenix]

I wonder how guilty I should feel for participating in the “turn to your neighbor and introduce yourself” innovation?

At a relative’s parish at Midnight Mass, that’s what the priest told us to do. So I complied. And here was my introduction:

“Hello. I am a Conservative Pro-lifer.”

Mind you, this was in liberal Rochester, NY …

~~ the phoenix

 

[netmilsmom]

“Hello. I am a Conservative Pro-lifer.”

Mind you, this was in liberal Rochester, NY …

~~ the phoenix

I admire you more than words can say!!!

 

[puzzleannie]

My home parish just got itself a new pastoral associate, who’s made a great many changes to the way we celebrate Mass. ?

Is this person the pastor? Because only the pastor has authority to make any changes in the Mass schedule, or anything else about celebration of liturgy, or in administration of the parish. That term means different things in different areas, in some dioceses it even refers to a layperson who has an administrative responsibility in the parish. Even if this person is what we used to call an assistant, if he is not the pastor appointed by the bishop he cannot make substantive changes.

a lot of what you list is permissible in a Mass for young children (below the age of reason, have not made 1st communion), so it is hard to say from your description whether they are all abuses.

 

[the_phoenix]

I admire you more than words can say!!!

Why thank you, netmil(name removed by moderator),

… And double thanks … Especially since, as l recall, you’re the one who recommended to me my current parish, which is excellent and in which I need not encounter strange liturgical novelties.

~~ the phoenix

 

[netmilsmom]

Why thank you, netmil(name removed by moderator),

… And double thanks … Especially since, as l recall, you’re the one who recommended to me my current parish, which is excellent and in which I need not encounter strange liturgical novelties.

~~ the phoenix

I’m not sure that it was me that recommended it, but I’m so happy you have found a good parish! Everyone should love his/her parish!
God Bless you, my friend!

 

[Karianne]

Yes… was it like that in the upper room, with Jesus knowing that He was going to His death ?

Calvary was a solemn occasion, Mass is no less, a solemn occasion.

I don’t know about that, aren’t they supposed to be joyous. And what if the OP leaves the Church, or the parish, as a result of the changes, won’t it be likely to prosper, even without her? Then she might be left out and I’m afraid that might make her unhappy.
I’m not sure if there are improprieties at the Mass, however, I think that the questions would be better directed towards her Bishop. Not to a message board, but I think that the best thing to do is to talk directly to the pastor with her concerns.

 

[Karianne]

I wonder how guilty I should feel for participating in the “turn to your neighbor and introduce yourself” innovation?

At a relative’s parish at Midnight Mass, that’s what the priest told us to do. So I complied. And here was my introduction:

“Hello. I am a Conservative Pro-lifer.”

Mind you, this was in liberal Rochester, NY …

~~ the phoenix

Hmm…did you pay any attention at all to what the other person said, or is the only part you remember are the words you said?

 

[Karianne]

One day, I would love to come onto CAF and see nothing but praise for the Wonderful Liturgy celebrated in EVERY parish.

Until then, when I see some poor soul brought to venting on an internet board, I pray that the priest who would cause such scandal to that parish, to be enlightened.

Our Lady of Akita, pray for us.

Well, I for one find it very poor form to criticize the priest, he is not present, he cannot defend himself and I do get tired of the Cafeteria Catholic attitude of picking and choosing which priests get your respect.

 

[the_phoenix]

Hmm…did you pay any attention at all to what the other person said, or is the only part you remember are the words you said?

The answer to your question is, yes.

However, I will leave it to you to figure out whether I’m responding to the first or second half of your question in particular … and I will assume you will, in charity, give me the benefit of the doubt.

~~ the phoenix

 

[Karianne]

I read through the posts and had to shake my head. How sad that people go to Mass looking for “something wrong”.
I go to Mass because of the Eucharist and what/who that represents. So what if Father Gibbons wanders around while he gives his homily. It’s the message I am getting, not how it’s being delivered that’s important. After all, didn’t Jesus wander around when He spoke?
Kathy

Oh, I am so with you, Katie. Whether folks like it or not this is their Pastor. He is not committing any sins that I can see, certainly nothing egregious like the child-sex scandals which were worthy of being condemned.
I have no problem with anything that was written. It is the duty of the priest to make the gospel relevant to our lives, some of them do it so well, and it sounds like the poor guy is trying his level best to keep the parishioners comings.
Once again, though I deplored the term before, it looks like the Cafeteria Catholics will pick and choose what they like, actually going to the point of abandoning their own parish when they don’t like what is going on.

 

[Karianne]

The answer to your question is, yes.

However, I will leave it to you to figure out whether I’m responding to the first or second half of your question in particular … and I will assume you will, in charity, give me the benefit of the doubt.

~~ the phoenix

You know exactly what I think of your answer, I am sure.

 

[Karianne]

It was a children’s mass, and the gospel thing was read by the PA before the introit, probably not an abuse. I just thought it was innapropriate for him to allign Christ with Dr. Seuss. Too much dumbing down, even for children.

I didn’t hold hands with my family because it’s not something we would have done had the priest not asked us to. My mother wasn’t offended that I wouldn’t hold hands with her, but that I was too “proud” to take part in a liturgical abuse. He told us to reach across the aisle and hold hands with our brothers and sisters in Christ, so this wasn’t about encouraging families to be intimate with each other.

But are all of these things regularly permitted in the children’s Mass?

Oh man, this really makes me sad!
I would give anything to have the chance to hold MY mother’s hand again.
I don’t understand your position.

 

[netmilsmom]

Well, I for one find it very poor form to criticize the priest, he is not present, he cannot defend himself and I do get tired of the Cafeteria Catholic attitude of picking and choosing which priests get your respect.

.

Hmmmm, somehow I never read a name of any priest. Could you please point that out to me?

Respect is earned, and not a given.
If a priest is making a mockery of a Holy Mass, he deserves no respectI.

Should a head of State be respected?
Not a problem as long as it’s not Adolf Hitler

 

[Karianne]

.

Hmmmm, somehow I never read a name of any priest. Could you please point that out to me?

Respect is earned, and not a given.
If a priest is making a mockery of a Holy Mass, he deserves no respectI.

Should a head of State be respected?
Not a problem as long as it’s not Adolf Hitler

I find likening a Catholic priest to Adolph Hitler unspeakably rude.

 

[Karin]

.

Hmmmm, somehow I never read a name of any priest. Could you please point that out to me?

Respect is earned, and not a given.
If a priest is making a mockery of a Holy Mass, he deserves no respectI.

have to agree with ya netmil(name removed by moderator)…there are way too many Priests out there that are making a mockery of the Mass…and not enough folks voicing their disgust at these things…