Are these novelties abuses?

[netmilsmom]

Oh, I am so with you, Katie. Whether folks like it or not this is their Pastor. He is not committing any sins that I can see, certainly nothing egregious like the child-sex scandals which were worthy of being condemned.
I have no problem with anything that was written. It is the duty of the priest to make the gospel relevant to our lives, some of them do it so well, and it sounds like the poor guy is trying his level best to keep the parishioners comings.
Once again, though I deplored the term before, it looks like the Cafeteria Catholics will pick and choose what they like, actually going to the point of abandoning their own parish when they don’t like what is going on.

Probably it would be a great idea if you got the definition of “Cafeteria Catholic” before you call someone who has total distain for the Vatican rules concerning the liturgy being thrown out the window a “Cafeteria Catholic”

It’s about the rules, not the innovations.

 

[netmilsmom]

I find likening a Catholic priest to Adolph Hitler unspeakably rude.

Well, should every priest be given respect just as every head of state be given respect?

Priests are human too.

 

[netmilsmom]

Oh man, this really makes me sad!
I would give anything to have the chance to hold MY mother’s hand again.
I don’t understand your position.

I can tell you, as sure as I type on this board, I wouldn’t have had the chance to hold my dear mother’s hand at this mass.

She would have already had a heart attack and I’d be doing CPR.

 

[netmilsmom]

have to agree with ya netmil(name removed by moderator)…there are way too many Priests out there that are making a mockery of the Mass…and not enough folks voicing their disgust at these things…

 

[Karianne]

Well, should every priest be given respect just as every head of state be given respect?

Priests are human too.

Never mind.

 

[Karianne]

I can tell you, as sure as I type on this board, I wouldn’t have had the chance to hold my dear mother’s hand at this mass.

She would have already had a heart attack and I’d be doing CPR.

YOU were at the same Mass as Mcliffor?

 

[netmilsmom]

YOU were at the same Mass as Mcliffor?

Simply going by his description,

Thank the Holy Lord, I am at a non-innovative parish. My wonderful Pastor (God Bless him and give him long life) would have had probably been more like Jesus and the Moneychangers at that mass.

 

[Karianne]

Simply going by his description,

Thank the Holy Lord, I am at a non-innovative parish. My wonderful Pastor (God Bless him and give him long life) would have had probably been more like Jesus and the Moneychangers at that mass.

Oh? I figured that Jesus would have loved the Mass because the children were there.
As for Jesus and the moneychangers, that’s an interesting story, Jesus didn’t object to the money being changed, it was essential for the Jewish people because they could only offer shekels at their services, not coins with Caesar’s pictures. It was the usuary Jesus objected to, and rightfully so. Jesus had a good reason to be angry at that time, however, in general there are no Masses today that require shekels, so I’m sure that your Pastor would not be act Jesus did on that occasion , it would be inappropriate and I’m sure that he wouldn’t be inappropriate at anyone’s Mass.

 

[netmilsmom]

Oh? I figured that Jesus would have loved the Mass because the children were there.

Huh? Children had nothing to do with an innovative priest

As for Jesus and the moneychangers, that’s an interesting story, Jesus didn’t object to the money being changed, it was essential for the Jewish people because they could only offer shekels at their services, not coins with Caesar’s pictures. It was the usuary Jesus objected to, and rightfully so. Jesus had a good reason to be angry at that time, however, in general there are no Masses today that require shekels, so I’m sure that your Pastor would not be act Jesus did on that occasion , it would be inappropriate and I’m sure that he wouldn’t be inappropriate at anyone’s Mass.

Acted LIKE. Did you see the word, LIKE. Not with the same motivation but acting LIKE Jesus. A metaphor. Angry, get it?

 

[Elzee]

From the OP: The altar boys now sit outside the sanctuary

Is it wrong for altar servers to sit outside the sanctuary?

 

[baltobetsy]

I consider myself more commited to the faith than most of the people in my parish.

:ehh:

 

[tcraig]

Oh? I figured that Jesus would have loved the Mass because the children were there.

Oh, yes. That’s it - have children at the Mass and any novelty or innovation a priest wants to introduce is “A-okay”.

Good grief.

Why even have rules governing the liturgy to begin with? Why should the Vatican issue documents addressing liturgical abuses? Surely we should let Rome know that a few children are all that’s needed.

 

[Brendan]

From the OP: The altar boys now sit outside the sanctuary

Is it wrong for altar servers to sit outside the sanctuary?

No. There are no requirement for the altar servers to sit in the sanctuary. They are permitted to sit in the sanctuary but I know of no mandate that requires them to do so.

 

[Karianne]

Oh, yes. That’s it - have children at the Mass and any novelty or innovation a priest wants to introduce is “A-okay”.

Good grief.

Why even have rules governing the liturgy to begin with? Why should the Vatican issue documents addressing liturgical abuses? Surely we should let Rome know that a few children are all that’s needed.

I’m not in love with the tone of your post. What do you have against children?

 

[Karianne]

Hand holding during the our father has damaged the Mass severely. It FORCES people to do things that are not part of the Mass. Most people could care less but those of us who would rather place our focus on GOD during this God centered VERTICAL part of the Mass, get looks of Malice from others. The words of this prayer are obvious and let us know where our focus should be, and this is, UPWARDS toward GOD. Hand holding is a Horizontal gesture that totally dilutes and destroys this portion of the Mass. The gesture of Mass that aknowledges the sense of communty immediately follows the vertical Lords prayer. That gesture is called the kiss of peace. Hand holding during the Lords Prayer nearly trumps the sole reason the kiss of peace is placed in the Mass. Hold holding is a modernist invention which perhaps was intentionally introduced to the Mass to shift the focus from God to Man. (see Adam and Eve)

THis posture during Mass has some very serious implications. A few years ago I was visiting a very Modernist parish. As I clasped my hands shut for the our father the person next to me pryed my hands apart and clutched my nand. I pulled away and got a very very nasty look from this individual. Immediately following this person refused to shake my hand for the Kiss of peace.

Now could someone please tell me that the whole hand holding issue is only a minor thing!!

It is a minor thing and you were disruptive at Mass. I can’t believe that you feel justified.
Unless you’re kidding around, and in that case, you’ve made your point so well I took it seriously!

 

[Karianne]

Probably it would be a great idea if you got the definition of “Cafeteria Catholic” before you call someone who has total distain for the Vatican rules concerning the liturgy being thrown out the window a “Cafeteria Catholic”

It’s about the rules, not the innovations.

I used the term because that is what many of the posters are doing, they don’t like the new way of doing things, they are personally offended, even though everything has been approved by the Vatican.

That is a Cafeteria Catholic and they are damaging to the Church and to the Faithful. They give scandal because, in public, they criticize their priests. (this is a public forum read by many non-catholics).
They damage the Faithful because they fail to present a cheerful and loving presence and they cause tension with their fellow Catholics.
So, that is what cafeteria catholic, someone who stubbornly refuses to go along with the Vatican and wants things their own way regardless of whether or not it is good for the Faithful.
Those who are so busy looking for something wrong with the Masses that they attend are Cafeteria Catholics and so are those who agree with them.

 

[Walking_Home]

Originally Posted by decn2b
THis posture during Mass has some very serious implications. A few years ago I was visiting a very Modernist parish. As I clasped my hands shut for the our father the person next to me pryed my hands apart and clutched my nand. I pulled away and got a very very nasty look from this individual. Immediately following this person refused to shake my hand for the Kiss of peace.

Now could someone please tell me that the whole hand holding issue is only a minor thing!!

It is a minor thing and you were disruptive at Mass. I can’t believe that you feel justified.
Unless you’re kidding around, and in that case, you’ve made your point so well I took it seriously!

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Are you for real. Someone pryed dec2nb’s hands apart—and you accuse dec2nb of being disruptive.

 

[Karianne]

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Are you for real. Someone pryed dec2nb’s hands apart—and you accuse dec2nb of being disruptive.

I am for real, he should have just held hands instead of causing a disturbance and then making his neighbor in Faith angry was also wrong, in my opinion.

These are the kinds of things that cause others to be distracted during Mass and at least one of them should have done whatever was necessary to keep the peace. Both were a guest in God’s house, you don’t start a disturbance in your neighbor’s house, so why is it okay during the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass?

 

[Walking_Home]

I am for real, he should have just held hands instead of causing a disturbance and then making his neighbor in Faith angry was also wrong, in my opinion.

These are the kinds of things that cause others to be distracted during Mass and at least one of them should have done whatever was necessary to keep the peace. Both were a guest in God’s house, you don’t start a disturbance in your neighbor’s house, so why is it okay during the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass?

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To keep peace—keep your hands to yourself. The one that caused the disturbance–was the one who pryed dec2nb’s hands apart. I would not go into my neighbor’s house and make them hold hands with me—It may even considered some form of assault.

 

[netmilsmom]

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To keep peace—keep your hands to yourself. The one that caused the disturbance–was the one who pryed dec2nb’s hands apart. I would not go into my neighbor’s house and make them hold hands with me—It may even considered some form of assault.

Me too.

When wil the innovators learn that “My way or the Highway” just doesn’t cut it.