Are these Priests advising Larry King correctly on topic of salvation ?
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gurneyhalleck1
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My advice for Larry would be to drop the suspenders, retire since he’s already 103, quit marrying women in their 20’s, get some better dentures, work on his posture, and if he does decide to stay on CNN, ask some tough questions once in a while for Lord’s sake. The guy is the ultimate interview cream puff.
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brb3
Guest
gurneyhalleck1;6631309 said:But, to the point … did the priests he inquired of speak correctly, or did they cream ‘muff’ it ?
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Third_Day
Guest
I think that the priest that praised Muhammad probably went a little to far. I think his point was that we can learn from Muslims from the fact that they pray 5 times a day. Even false religions have some truth.
Regarding the question by Larry King is salvation possible for those who do not accepted Christ is addressed by Paul in Romans 3:29 when he asked, “Is he the God of the Jews only? Is he not also the God of the pagans?” This issue is addressed again in Acts 10 and the story of Cornelius. He was a pagan. He had never heard of Jesus Christ yet scripture tells us that he was an “upright and God-fearing man”. Scripture tells us that his prayer “has been heard and your alms have been remembered before God.” Peter, inspired by the Holy Spirit, then tell us “Truly I perceive that God shows no partiality, but in every nation anyone who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to God”
Does this sound like those who have never known Christ will burn in hell for all eternity?
How will those be judged who have never heard of Christ? Paul tells us in Romans 2:14 “When Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them. This will take place on the day when God will judge men’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.”
Those who have never heard of Christ will be judged according to the natural law written on their hearts. The last line tells us when they will be judged “This will take place on the day when God will judge men’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.”
Jesus tells us something very important. John 15:22 “If I had not come to them, they would not have sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin”
Jesus tells us that those to whom He has not come to will not have sin. Does this mean they go straight to heaven? No, we must take all of scripture. They will be judged by the natural law. Jesus also tells us that when He does come, there is no excuse for sin and we will be judged accordingly if we reject Him.
Paul also says this in Romans 10:14 “How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard?”
This simply means that we are all called to evangelize. How can someone believe in Christ if they have never heard of Christ? This does not apply to someone who, through no fault of their own, has not heard of Christ.
Jesus tells us in Mark 16:15-16 "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.”
The message is clear. Go into the world and whoever does not believe will be condemned. But what if no one ever comes to preach? How can they believe if they have not heard? How can they be condemned if no one ever preaches the gospel to them?
Salvation is possible , not guaranteed,for those who don’t believe through no fault of their own. Why did the Catholic Church send missionaries into pagan lands for 2000 years? Because a man’s best chance for salvation is to know Christ and be baptized. To be judged by the natural law is not a guarantee of entrance into heaven.
Had the priests had more time to expand on Catholic teaching I believe that would have been the point they would have made. To take the fundalmentist position that those who have never heard of Christ, even if it is not their fault, will burn in hell for all eternity is not biblical. That would mean that millions of America indians, peasants in China and all the ignorant throughout history are burning in hell for all eternity.
That doesn’t mean they are in heaven either. Being judged by the natural law written on their hearts is not a automatic ticket to heaven
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brb3
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Well, you sure make a better apologetic than they ! But, how do we explain the judgment of Sodom & Gomorrah ? And, Peter’s preaching in Acts 4:12 “And there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved” ? And Christ teaching we must come to the Father, thru the Son, — and the essential need for rebirth by water and spirit to see heaven ?
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Eris_Discordia
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I actually missed your hilarious remarks when I was away. Just had to say that. And I agree with this 
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gurneyhalleck1
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Hi Eris…Nice to see your posts again. Hope you’re doing well. Hope all’s well with the family! Thanks for the kind words as always…
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TriuneUnity
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Both answers were categorically Pelagian.
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blazerdave
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Sancte Augustine, ora pro nobis!
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Dancelittleewok
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Ah-men!
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TriuneUnity
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It’s pretty bad when you’re a priest and have your argument devoured by a Reformed Baptist (Al Mohler).
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blazerdave
Guest
That’s my first ever “Amen” from a Catholic, ladies and gentlemen!
Nice to see you again, Dance!YES haha. It was quite hilarious.
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Dancelittleewok
Guest
To be clear, I think the titles from the people whom posted these videos are disingenuous. The first video is titled: “Catholics don’t believe in being saved” while the second video is titled “Catholics don’t believe in Jesus only.” Both are untrue: Catholics believe all mankind has been redeemed by Jesus’ sacrifice and yes, Catholics don’t believe in Jesus only, we believe in the Trinity and that works based on condign merit play a part in salvation. Catholicism has condemned Pelagianism and pronounced Jesus’ saving grace and sacrifice in the creeds; to believe otherwise, it would mean that Catholics are promoting the very thing that we condemn. It’s not logical.That’s my first ever “Amen” from a Catholic, ladies and gentlemen!
From what I understood from Father Manning, Muslims fasting, praying 5 times a day, etc. are pious practices. He affirms that Jesus is the source of salvation. Herein I think lies in the definition of “believes in Jesus.” To an Evangelical, this may mean something completely different to a Catholic. Not to mention, Catholics believe in Purgatory.
P.S. St. Augustine is one my favorite saints. I read his “Confessions” and his conversion story really set me on fire to learn more about the faith!
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TriuneUnity
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Piety is nice, Dance. I certainly don’t criticize Muslims for praying five times a day. I criticize them for praying to a god who doesn’t exist. Jesus has died for every one, regardless of their religion. But Jesus Himself made it clear that explicit faith in that atonement is necessary to be saved. As Mohler said in the clip (blah, I disdain having to agree with Baptists, but when they’re right they’re right), there are no anonymous Christians.
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CHESTERTONRULES
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Here’s the beginning of the prologue of the Catechism:
PROLOGUE
"FATHER, . . . this is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent."1 "God our Savior desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."2 "There is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved"3 - than the name of JESUS.
vatican.va/archive/catechism/prologue.htm
However, the fact that we can only be saved through Jesus does not mean that Jesus can’t save those who don’t know him.
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brb3
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And what would the sciptures and Church Tradition say to this ?
Many Catholics teach here at CAF there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church. Where did they get their misinformation ?
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jfoges
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What those priests said is accurate Church teachings. As for the first priest, the Jesuit, he is speaking correctly about the baptism of desire. The second priest is accurate also. For those who doubt the second priest, check out this quote from Nostra Aetate, which is a document of the Second Vatican Council:
" The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all- powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth,(5) who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin Mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgment when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting.
Since in the course of centuries not a few quarrels and hostilities have arisen between Christians and Moslems, this sacred synod urges all to forget the past and to work sincerely for mutual understanding and to preserve as well as to promote together for the benefit of all mankind social justice and moral welfare, as well as peace and freedom."
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Third_Day
Guest
They were judged by the natural law which they violated as Jude tells us in verse 7 “just as Sodom and Gomorrah…acted immorally and indulged in unnatural lust, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of fire”
There is no other name undr heaven. Whoever is saved is saved by Christ. We cannot save ourselves. But what about those who have never heard of Christ? There are billions of Chinese who have no idea who Christ is. Will they burn in hell for all eternity because no one came to preach to them? They will be judged by the natural law just like those in Sodom.
The thief on the cross was saved without water baptism. This is an exception. He believed and repented and he would have had the desire for baptism if he knew it was necessary.
God desires that all men be saved." IF " they are it will be through the Son. A person’s best chance for salvation is to be a Christian and even a better chance in the Church established by Christ who gave us the sacraments as a means of saving grace.
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Third_Day
Guest
Are you prepared to say that the billions of Chinese who have never heard of Christ are burning in hell for all eternity because you never brought them the gospel?
I am reminded of the conversion story of Roslind Moss who was a Jew and at the age of 35 had never heard of Christ. She was told by some “Jews for Jesus” that Jesus rose from the dead. Growing up, she was never told anything about Jesus.
Since you agree with the Baptist, that means that if Rosalind Moss had died the day before she heard about Christ and began seeking the truth she would have been sent to hell for all eternity because, through no fault of her own, she was never told that the Messiah had come.
Do you really agree with the Baptist?
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