Are these statements of belief ok with Catholicism?

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observer333

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Question: Are there anything about these statements of belief that disagree with the Catholic faith?
  1. I believe that the one and only God is tri-personal, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit being distinct, divine persons.
  2. I believe that Jesus Christ is truly God and truly human, the unique, sure, and sufficient revelation of the very being, character, and purposes of God, beside whom there is no other god, and beside whom there is no other name by which we must be saved.
  3. I believe that the only ground for our acceptance by God is what Jesus Christ did on the cross and what he is now doing through his risen life, whereby he exposed and reversed the course of human sin and violence, died for our sins, redeemed us from the power of evil, reconciled us to God, and empowers us with his life “from above.” We therefore bring nothing to our salvation. We receive his redemption solely by grace through faith.
  4. I believe that new life, given supernaturally through spiritual regeneration, is a necessity as well as a gift and that the lifelong conversion that results is the only pathway to a radically changed character and way of life. Thus the only sufficient power for a life of Christian faithfulness and moral integrity in this world is that of Christ’s resurrection and the power of the Holy Spirit.
  5. I believe that Jesus’ own teaching and his attitude toward the total truthfulness and supreme authority of the Bible, God’s inspired Word, make the Scriptures our final rule for faith and practice.
  6. I believe that being disciples of Jesus means serving him as Lord in every sphere of our lives, secular as well as spiritual, public as well as private, in deeds as well as words, and in every moment of our days on earth, always reaching out as he did to those who are lost, as well as to the poor, the sick, the hungry, the oppressed, the socially despised, and being faithful stewards of creation and our fellow-creatures.
  7. I believe that the blessed hope of the personal return of Jesus provides both strength and substance to what the Church is doing, just as what we are doing becomes a sign of the hope of where we are going; both together leading to a consummation of history and the fulfillment of an undying kingdom that comes only by the power of God.
  8. I believe that all followers of Christ are called to know and love Christ through worship, love Christ’s family through fellowship, grow like Christ through discipleship, serve Christ by ministering to the needs of others in his name, and share Christ with those who do not yet know him, inviting people to the ends of the earth and to the end of time to join us as his disciples and followers of his way.
 
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I believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.

I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,

and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.

For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,
he suffered death and was buried,
and rose again on the third day
in accordance with the Scriptures.
He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead
and his kingdom will have no end.

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son,
who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.

I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.
I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins
and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead
and the life of the world to come. Amen.

Ok…I don’t see any significant differences(?) Can you please point them out?
 
I don’t think anything he said was trolling unless I’m missing something. I thought he had valid questions
 
Thank you Le_Crouton!

1 Peter 3

15 but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts. Always be ready to give an explanation to anyone who asks you for a reason for your hope,

16 but do it with gentleness and reverence, keeping your conscience clear, so that, when you are maligned, those who defame your good conduct in Christ may themselves be put to shame.
(http://www.usccb.org/bible/1peter/3#68003015-f)
 
A school or job application, perhaps? I’ve seen similar statements of faith - this one has that evangelical Protestant ring to it. It’s not that it’s entirely incompatible with the Catholic faith but rather nuanced in its incompatibility.
  1. Why not use the word “triune”?
  2. “… and beside whom there is no other name by which we must be saved.” This is Protestant-speak for not honoring the Communion of the Saints, an explicit point in the Creed you quoted.
  3. Again, Protestant code words here: “only” and “solely” meaning that they don’t acknowledge grace given by instituted sacraments or any effort requirement of the individual (which is actually counter-scriptural).
  4. I think this point seems benign enough, but again, I’m cautious of their use of “only”.
  5. “supreme authority of the Bible” and “the Scriptures our final rule for faith and practice” are directly counter to Catholic teaching (and also counter-scriptural).
  6. Beautiful. No issue here.
  7. Huh? I’m not sure what they really mean here, but it sounds like Jesus is there (heaven) and we’re here and there’s no connection. Catholics definitely don’t agree with that!
  8. Sounds good, but again, it’s the way they say it that leaves me wondering what they really mean by what they didn’t say.
 
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I only read the first 4 or 5, but it seems most of the statements are worded ambiguously enough such that one could interpret them to be in line Catholic or Protestants belief. From a Catholic perspective they are incomplete, dispite being overly long. Certainly worded to sow confusion.
 
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Basically faith alone, Bible only, no Tradition, no Magisterium. Much was “sorta” OK, but as already pointed out, phrased to permit various interpretations.
 
observer333 said:
  1. I believe that the only ground for our acceptance by God is what Jesus Christ did on the cross and what he is now doing through his risen life, whereby he exposed and reversed the course of human sin and violence, died for our sins, redeemed us from the power of evil, reconciled us to God, and empowers us with his life “from above.” We therefore bring nothing to our salvation. We receive his redemption solely by grace through faith.
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I would take issue with the words “we bring nothing.” Nothing we could bring on our own is sufficient for salvation, true, but God calls us to still bring and offer what we have, with his help. It’s not that we bring nothing, but that we must join our limited offerings to the infinite offering of Christ.
  1. I believe that Jesus’ own teaching and his attitude toward the total truthfulness and supreme authority of the Bible, God’s inspired Word, make the Scriptures our final rule for faith and practice.
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No. This would be the Church on the two equal pillars of Scripture and Tradition.
 
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Thanks for your replies! I see what you are all saying. If I understand you correctly, it’s more about what the statements don’t say rather than what they do(?)
 
observer333 said:
Thanks for your replies! I see what you are all saying. If I understand you correctly, it’s more about what the statements don’t say rather than what they do(?)
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Yes and no. Take your first statement for instance:
observer333 said:
I believe that the one and only God is tri-personal, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit being distinct, divine persons.
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What is “tri-personal”? That sounds more like an adjective than a declaration (alikening God to being three persons as opposed to outright saying He is). You say Father and Son, are you saying the Son was therefore made by the Father? As a son is lower than his father, is Jesus less than the Father? Does God take on the personage of Father, Son, or Holy Spirit whenever He wants? Since God is one, but these persons are distinct, are they just different forms for the same being?
 
A lot of them aren’t directly conflicting with Catholic theology per se but are written in a… certain Protestant style that I as a Catholic can’t help but notice. Right or wrong, it brings certain connotations to mind.

It’s like I know the person saying it may be drawing different conclusions from the same words, going some place I wouldn’t.

And I pointed out a few specific examples that did seem explicitly not okay as Catholic statements in a previous post.
 
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I hear you, Wesrock. I don’t know …“Tri-personal” sounds like a 2-cent word for the 50-cent word: “triune.”

tri·une

/ˈtrī(y)o͞on/

adjective: triune
  1. consisting of three in one (used especially with reference to the Trinity).
“the triune Godhead”
 
I think you may have responded to the wrong person. 😅 @Wesrock is who you want.
 
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There’s some odd phrasing (e.g. “tri personal” instead of “triune”) and a serious lack of Catholic depth, but I wouldn’t say most of it is incompatible, just incomplete. I would say the biggest fault then is ambiguity, almost to the point I’m suspecting that this is non-denominational in origin.

Some statements, though, do seem incompatible.
observer333 said:
We receive his redemption solely by grace through faith.
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I’m pretty sure this is getting at sola fide, which is incompatible with Catholicism. While we would say that we can’t bring anything of our own, we are called to receive the grace God is giving us. This often occurs through works like Baptism and Confession, which while done in faith, aren’t alone faith.
observer333 said:
I believe that new life, given supernaturally through spiritual regeneration, is a necessity as well as a gift and that the lifelong conversion that results is the only pathway to a radically changed character and way of life.
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This seems very “once saved, always saved”, which is incompatible with Catholicism. Specifically, the “lifelong conversion” seems to imply that the person will remain in a state of grace throughout the rest of their life, while the Church teaches that we can lose it through mortal sin.
observer333 said:
I believe that Jesus’ own teaching and his attitude toward the total truthfulness and supreme authority of the Bible, God’s inspired Word, make the Scriptures our final rule for faith and practice.
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This is obviously sola scriptura, which is incompatible with Catholicism. While one could argue that the Church teaches all dogma can be defended with Scripture, it does not make Scripture the final authority, at most a final authority.
 
observer333 said:
I believe that Jesus’ own teaching and his attitude toward the total truthfulness and supreme authority of the Bible, God’s inspired Word, make the Scriptures our final rule for faith and practice.
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I find the phrasing “final rule for faith and practice” off-putting. It sounds like scripture is an ending, rather than a source of life. Not that I disagree with it, but it seems too weak. Just read how Vatican II expressed the same thing:
Therefore, like the Christian religion itself, all the preaching of the Church must be nourished and regulated by Sacred Scripture. For in the sacred books, the Father who is in heaven meets His children with great love and speaks with them; and the force and power in the word of God is so great that it stands as the support and energy of the Church, the strength of faith for her sons, the food of the soul, the pure and everlasting source of spiritual life. Consequently these words are perfectly applicable to Sacred Scripture: “For the word of God is living and active” (Heb. 4:12) and “it has power to build you up and give you your heritage among all those who are sanctified” (Acts 20:32; see 1 Thess. 2:13).
Dei Verbum 21
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