Are these the 10 worst songs of all time?

[revert_jen]

Emotional memories can affect our opinions about what is good and bad music. This “worst song” list is little more than opinion from the start.

The first sentence is true.

As for the second, is your position that all judgement of music is just opinion? Or is it that you think none of the posters on this thread are qualified to make real judgement of music or apply the documents of the Church to individual pieces of music and make objective judgements about their appropriateness for a liturgical setting?

–Jen

 

[CatholicZ09]

I really hate this one:

Now As We Gather by Eugene Castillo

1. Now as we gather, God chosen people, into one
   body, into one place; here we shall tell of
   our own salvation, here we shall see our God face to face.

Refrain: God be among us as we draw near, sharing the sign of
love and of promise. Wine of our sorrow, bread of our joy,
Lord, God, be here among us now.

1. Now as we sing our song of salvation, there are no
   strangers in this holy place; here we shall welcome
   all with compassion, here we shall see our God face to face.

Refrain: God be among us as we draw near, sharing the sign of
love and of promise. Wine of our sorrow, bread of our joy,
Lord, God be here among us now.

1. Here we shall break the bread of our promise, here we shall
   share the wine of God’s grace; here we shall feed from
   God’s holy table, here we shall see our God face to face.

Refrain: God be among us as we draw near, sharing the sign of
love and of promise. Wine of our sorrow, bread of our joy,
Lord, God be here among us now.

1. Ages have gone and ages will follow; people of
   ev’ry nation and race join us to greet the
   One who is risen, here we shall see our God face to face.

Refrain: God be among us as we draw near, sharing the sign of
love and of promise. Wine of our sorrow, bread of our joy,
Lord, God, be here among us now.

 

[CatholicZ09]

Another one:

“Let Heaven Rejoice” by Bob Dufford, SJ

Refrain: Let heaven rejoice and earth be glad; let all creation sing. Let
children proclaim through ev’ry land: “Hosanna to our King.”

1. Sound the trumpet into the night; the day of the Lord is
   near. Wake your people, lift your voice, proclaim it to the world.

Refrain: Let heaven rejoice and earth be glad; let all creation sing. Let
children proclaim through ev’ry land: “Hosanna to our King.”

1. Rise in splendor; shake of your sleep; put on your robes of
   joy. And in the morning you shall see the glory of the Lord.

Refrain: Let heaven rejoice and earth be glad; let all creation sing. Let
children proclaim through ev’ry land: “Hosanna to our King.”

1. Raise your voices, be not afraid. Proclaim it in ev’ry
   land. Christ has died, but he has risen; he will come again.

Refrain: Let heaven rejoice and earth be glad; let all creation sing. Let
children proclaim through ev’ry land: “Hosanna to our King.”

1. Sing a new song unto the Lord, whose labor has led us to life. With
   grateful hearts and joyful dancing, play before the Lord.

Refrain: Let heaven rejoice and earth be glad; let all creation sing. Let
children proclaim through ev’ry land: “Hosanna to our King.”

 

[Irishmom2]

I never liked “Lord of the Dance”. I think we used it once at my parish and then that was it. I always picture Jesus dancing and it doesn’t seem right.

Uh, I always picture Michael Flatley dancing…

I believe the song has Shaker roots and I just find the words to be strange.

 

[pnewton]

The first sentence is true.

As for the second, is your position that all judgement of music is just opinion?

No. It is that this top ten worst list is opinion. No one of the songs has been banned by the Church. With all the dioceses we have, no one has shown where on single song on this list is not allowed in one diocese.

One can accept, or ignore the Church’s guidelines. That would be a black and white issue. How these are applied is not so black and white. Best/worst are definitely subjective.

Some of the conplaints against songs are specific and these are more easily discussed.

 

[pnewton]

Well I don’t have to be reminded just how deliberately Protestantnized our new so called Catholic Music is becoming. After all our Catholic Church today seems to no longer carry the distinction of being exclusively Catholic due to the strong adoption of Ecummunism in the Catholic Church.

Lest we spin this all negative, let me point out that there is a little of the chicken and the egg in this assumption. In the United States, we have also had a great deal of Protestant conversions to Catholicism in parts of the country. Maybe those who were already Catholic resent this, but there is a culture to the protestants that come into the Church that can be legitimately reflected in the music.

 

[Elizabeth502]

I have to agree with post 138: bad tunes combined with sentimental lyrics make for an unpleasant musical experience for those with both a musical sense and a theological interest – whether trained theologian and musician, or not. Whereas, aesthetically pleasing music and music which follows classic (not classical) standards for music will inspire universally.

The broadest appreciation of art, contrary to popular myth, is not a matter of mere personal opinion. Great musical and visual form has consistent underlying standards which resonate with vast populations, regardless of education & personal preference. I can prefer certain styles of music and certain periods of music, but that does not mean I do not recognize all great music when I hear it – ancient, classical, contemporary, etc.

This is one of the many reasons that the timelessness of Gregorian chant has the ability to inspire the listener spiritually: those same principles are in play. It’s by no means the only inspiring form, but it does meet the twin ends.

It’s less important that the entire congregation – or even more than 50% of the congregation – “love” the particular music chosen, than that few, if any, are put off or distracted or unsettled by it. (Because that can interfere with prayerful focus.) This is an important distinction.

 

[snowlake]

The broadest appreciation of art, contrary to popular myth, is not a matter of mere personal opinion. Great musical and visual form has consistent underlying standards which resonate with vast populations, regardless of education & personal preference. I can prefer certain styles of music and certain periods of music, but that does not mean I do not recognize all great music when I hear it – ancient, classical, contemporary, etc.

This is one of the many reasons that the timelessness of Gregorian chant has the ability to inspire the listener spiritually: those same principles are in play. It’s by no means the only inspiring form, but it does meet the twin ends.

It’s less important that the entire congregation – or even more than 50% of the congregation – “love” the particular music chosen, than that few, if any, are put off or distracted or unsettled by it. (Because that can interfere with prayerful focus.) This is an important distinction.

Amen. Alleluia. Alleluia.

Your last point is especially pertinent!

 

[benedictgal]

Fr. George Rutler was on The World Over last night doing an interview segment with Raymond Arroyo. During the course of the interview, Fr. Rutler’s book, “Brightest and Best” was brought up. The book chronicles the stories behind some of the hymns sung for Mass. Fr. Rutland bemoaned the current state of music today in the Mass.

I am going to order his book and, upon reading it, I will post some of his comments (and mine) on the subject. Fr. Rutland noted that much of what is used today at Mass does not even qualify as being fit for the Holy Sacrifice. I am curious as to what his thoughts would be on the First Things list. I have a gut feeling about what +Fr. Richard John Neuhaus’ thoughts would be on the matter.

 

[centurionguard]

Lest we spin this all negative, let me point out that there is a little of the chicken and the egg in this assumption. In the United States, we have also had a great deal of Protestant conversions to Catholicism in parts of the country. Maybe those who were already Catholic resent this, but there is a culture to the protestants that come into the Church that can be legitimately reflected in the music.

If my post sounded harsh then I apologize. I am not biased against Protestant Faiths.

In the United States, we have also had a great deal of Protestant conversions to Catholicism in parts of the country. Maybe those who were already Catholic resent this

I don’t resent this; in fact its quite often known in Catholic circles that many former protestants who join the Catholic Church become in a number of ways stronger Catholics than people who were raised Catholic. I’ve witnessed this myself in my own parish and Archdiocese.

My fears though are with changes in liturgy and music. Unless one was raised a devout Catholic and ignores admitting to seeing some radial changes through the decades, then such a Catholic is blind. And I’m not speaking necessarily here about the differences with liturgy and music in the Traditional Mass 45 years ago. You have to admit when it comes to Catholic Music from the late 1960’s in through the 1970’s and up to now we’ve seen some radical changes. I fail to see how all those changes have become perfectly for the better. Catholics who grew up the 80’s wouldn’t have seen these changes.

If any of my anger is justified its directed towards liberal liturgist.

 

[jmcrae]

Here are the lyrics to “Wade in the Water”, just so you guys know what I have to go through:

Imagine this at Easter Vigil

By the way- if you’ve never heard this I’m sure you can look it up on YouTube and experience it for yourself

This was on an album of Negro spirituals that I used to have. I played it for some kids, and they didn’t even recognize it as being music - they just said, “What is that awful noise, Miss?”

I happen to enjoy Negro spirituals - but they don’t belong at Mass. Campfire, yes, and for personal enjoyment, certainly.

 

[snowlake]

I happen to enjoy Negro spirituals - but they don’t belong at Mass. Campfire, yes, and for personal enjoyment, certainly.

But an interesting thing about spirituals, and African-American Gospel music is that the
musical style originated in a church/religious venue, whereas the music that we’ve been speaking of (sans text) has its origins in various forms of secular music. In my opinion, the
spirituals are much more appropriate (if in keeping with Catholic doctrine) than what we’ve
been speaking of. It depends on the tempo, rhythm, text, etc., but some of these actually might fit in at a Mass more than the “pop” stuff.

 

[jmcrae]

Uh, I always picture Michael Flatley dancing…

I believe the song has Shaker roots and I just find the words to be strange.

The original Shaker song, sung to the same tune, was “'Tis a Gift to be Simple.” I don’t know where the words to “Lord of the Dance” came from, but I’m reasonably certain that the Shakers didn’t come up with that stuff.

 

[snowlake]

I’m not familiar with all of the songs on the list, but have to mention some others that are
not-so-compatible with the compositional requirements for congregational singing. At least
in my parish, some of the following always have a hesitant, odd sound in various parts of the pieces due to their odd rhythmic or metrical characteristics. Usually, I think, this is due to the fact that the rhythms, etc. are so hard to follow (especially for non-musicians or
pastoral “musicians” who do not know how to read music) that various “interpretations”(?) of the notation occur simultaneously.

GIFT OF FINEST WHEAT: the order of metrical changes in this piece are:
4/4, 3/4, 4/4, 3/4, with a da capo back to 4/4, 3/4. I have often heard the first word of each 3/4 section start out as “two and a half” beats instead of "“one and a half”, thus causing a bit of vocal “shuffling” for everyone to stay together.
The mistake of lengthening of the note is only a natural “ironing out” of the meter to make it more sensical to the average person. One wonders why it wasn’t composed that way to begin with if “active participation” was expected.

Sometimes it is the musicians themselves who make these errors, and are blissfully unaware of it all.

RAIN DOWN: a look at this (in the We Celebrate hymnal) is enough to confuse anyone.
Since I can’t reproduce the notation here, suffice it to say that, if one did not already know the piece, it would be virtually impossible for the average parishioner to make any sense out of it whatsoever

WE WALK BY FAITH: 3/4, 2/4, 3/4. Who hasn’t heard this one sound as if it were a
a quasi-round, due to the same natural “ironing out” of the meter that occurs in Gift Of Finest Wheat? The 2/4 measures are often naturally lengthened to make them 3/4, causing a discrepancy between singers who don’t read music and those who do. Again, sometimes even the musicians are quite unaware of the fact that they have misread the notation. Why was it even composed in this manner? Very strange.
.

 

[snowlake]

strange meters and rhythms continued.

THERE IS A LOVE (Janco):the asymmetrical meter (7/4) changes to 4/4 for a single
measure, and then back. 7/4 is not someting that comes naturally to a congregation.
This seems almost silly, and one wonders if it was a joke to make the powers that be
look like fools for having accepted it (or at least for not having rejected it immediately).

GATHER US IN: rhythmically speaking, there isn’t much room for breathing in this piece.
The meter changes are 6/8, 3/8, 6/8, 3/8, 6/8. When done w/ the score fine. When
attempted by stand- in amateur musicians , “Yikes”.

CANTICLE OF THE SUN: I’ve yet to hear this one sung w/ the correct rhythm.I’ve often wondered if the rhythm in the 3rd measure(refrain) is a typo, or was Haugen actually serious. The 16th notes in the verses are very silly, and the congregation basically
does “what comes naturally”, and lengthens them to 8ths. Why were the unnatural 16ths
used instead of 8ths? This is a question we still ask ourselves 30 years after its publication.

BE NOT AFRAID: Very, very strange rhythmical writing if one is aiming at congregational
use when composing. It has probably NEVER been sung by a congregation as written.
The 16th, heavily dotted quarters, etc.(extreme shorts and longs) are all of a sudden abandoned in the 7th measure of verse 3. This is a mystery, because the words here could have been just as jerky in rhythm as the rest of it.Again, why? Did he not have enough ink in his pen to make the extra flags/dots at this point? Or is there a possible
internal joke(the words are “one day you shall laugh” ). You’ll laugh when you find out that the whole thing was a joke on the Church, and that the composer may have (note the words MAY have) laughed all the way to the bank.

SING A NEW SONG has an odd rhythmic notation in the 4th measur that is never sung that way (here). the 8th - quarter combination is always ironed out into 2 equal 8ths. This type of thing, as well as the similar “ironing outs” of the above pieces, is something that any trained musician would be aware of before attempting to write a piece. Very, very strange.

That’s all for now.

 

[elgar]

Fr. George Rutler was on The World Over last night doing an interview segment with Raymond Arroyo. During the course of the interview, Fr. Rutler’s book, “Brightest and Best” was brought up. The book chronicles the stories behind some of the hymns sung for Mass. Fr. Rutland bemoaned the current state of music today in the Mass.

I am going to order his book and, upon reading it, I will post some of his comments (and mine) on the subject. Fr. Rutland noted that much of what is used today at Mass does not even qualify as being fit for the Holy Sacrifice. I am curious as to what his thoughts would be on the First Things list. I have a gut feeling about what +Fr. Richard John Neuhaus’ thoughts would be on the matter.

Benedictgal–My wife and I also watched that interview of Fr. Rutler on The World Over. He really is a gem and says the things that need to be said about the sad state of Catholic church music. I too, find much sound theology in many of the old evangelical Protestant hymns of the past. Too bad most Catholics don’t watch EWTN. In fact, I’ve heard Catholics berate the network as if it was run by a bunch of crazy conservatives who want to take us back to those repressive days of pre-V2. I too, plan on getting a copy of Fr. Rutler’s book. We will look forward to reading your comments.

 

[Victorious]

Fr. Rutland noted that much of what is used today at Mass does not even qualify as being fit for the Holy Sacrifice.

That’s just it. The Mass IS Calvary. They are one and the same. The Mass breaks all the rules of time and space and re-presents the one Sacrifice of Calvary in an unbloody manner. We really are there with the Magdalene and St. John and the Blessed Mother at the foot of the Cross. This is why the question of what’s appropriate for Mass is not simply a matter of taste. If we could actually see with our bodily eyes the reality of where we are at Mass, we’d be ashamed to sing a lot of what we’re singing.

 

[snowlake]

Beautifully put, Victorious.

 

[Victorious]

Beautifully put, Victorious.

Thank you.

 

[ishii]

Lot’s of songs by Dan Schutte. I hope the music directors of my nearby parishes are aware of this list. How about “Enter Rejoice” and “Yaweh, I know you are near.” Why aren’t they on the list? Maybe the list needs to be expanded to the 29 worst songs of all time.

Ishii