Are these things abuses?

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Just wondering if these things are okay at mass. If they normally are not, is there some kind of loop-hole that the USCCB gives for parishes to “get away” with them?
  1. Does the guy carrying the cross up to the altar in procession have to be an acolyte? Does he have to wear special vestments? I saw a guy who looked to be a lay-person wearing regular lay-cloths.
  2. Can a parish use altar girls casually and at any time? I’ve been told that altar girls may only be used when no boys are available. I saw only altar girls at this place.
  3. Can a parish singing both the Gloria and the Agnus Dei as a responsorial, with the worship director singing most of it solo? I thought the whole congregation had to say all of it.
  4. Is bowing during the “He came down from Heaven” line in the creed absolutely binding? I didn’t see anyone bow at this place.
 
I believe that the following is correct (but will cheerfully accept any corrections if necessary).
  1. Not an abuse.
  2. Not an abuse. Parishes may allow altar girls at the discretion of the priest, not just if ‘there are no boys available’ in the U.S. currently. Also, you cannot be 100% sure that the parish ‘only uses girls’ unless you’ve been to every Mass there in the last 20 years and have never seen an altar boy in that entire time. And even if they do, provided they have followed the Vatican directions, it is all right from a legalistic standpoint.
  3. This scenario is why the USCCB is working on liturgical guidelines. As it stands, ‘most of it solo’ is probably not an abuse unless they completely change all the words around (changing the words to Latin is okay though). Many places have a sort of cantor/choir/people Gloria where the cantor intones a line, the choir sings a line or two, and the people respond with “Glory to God” or some such. Hey, it’s better than having the Gloria left out on a Sunday (except during Advent and Lent when it is supposed to be left out).
  4. People should bow; it is in the GIRM. However, this practice needs to be emphasized more in many parishes. It is not an abuse so much as it is simply a lack of knowledge. In parishes without missals, especially, unless the priest himself makes a point of this verbally and in the bulletin and over a long period of time, most people are not aware that this needs to be done.
 
Just wondering if these things are okay at mass. If they normally are not, is there some kind of loop-hole that the USCCB gives for parishes to “get away” with them?
  1. Does the guy carrying the cross up to the altar in procession have to be an acolyte? Does he have to wear special vestments? I saw a guy who looked to be a lay-person wearing regular lay-cloths.
  2. Can a parish use altar girls casually and at any time? I’ve been told that altar girls may only be used when no boys are available. I saw only altar girls at this place.
  3. Can a parish singing both the Gloria and the Agnus Dei as a responsorial, with the worship director singing most of it solo? I thought the whole congregation had to say all of it.
  4. Is bowing during the “He came down from Heaven” line in the creed absolutely binding? I didn’t see anyone bow at this place.
 
I realised that the thread should have been here after posting in apologetics. That thread should be moved and merged with this one. Sorry! 😦
 
Just wondering if these things are okay at mass. If they normally are not, is there some kind of loop-hole that the USCCB gives for parishes to “get away” with them?
  1. Does the guy carrying the cross up to the altar in procession have to be an acolyte? Does he have to wear special vestments? I saw a guy who looked to be a lay-person wearing regular lay-cloths.
  2. Can a parish use altar girls casually and at any time? I’ve been told that altar girls may only be used when no boys are available. I saw only altar girls at this place.
  3. Can a parish singing both the Gloria and the Agnus Dei as a responsorial, with the worship director singing most of it solo? I thought the whole congregation had to say all of it.
  4. Is bowing during the “He came down from Heaven” line in the creed absolutely binding? I didn’t see anyone bow at this place.
  1. The entrance procesion is to consist of the Priest, Deacon, Altar Servers and Lector. If one of then carries the Cross, no abuse. If they grab a stray Extraordinary Minister or other member of the congregation it could constitute an abuse…
  2. Female Altar Servers are permitted whether they have males avaliable or not. .
  3. Yes they can and it is often done so…
    4 Yes, it is binding although most people don’t do it through either lack of knowledge, I don’t but that one as it is clearly written in most of the missalettes that they have in Church these days, or more likely, sheer lack of reverence and respect.
 
we may be moving and if we do, this is the parish we would attend.
 
The parish seemed very traditional except for the things I noticed
 
Oh, that’s good. I think you have some very good questions. I cant tell you why these things are happening, but they are.
You feel there is a problem here, maybe the Holy Spirit is calling you to be there to help do something about it? Is it too much for you to do?
Only you know that. Nothing happens overnight but you may be able to influence changes for the better with God’s help.

My thoughts are with you. Seek guidance from the Holy Spirit to help you decide how you will proceed.

Try to think of the good things, and you will find good people there too.

🙂
 
The Gloria should be recited or sung by all in its entirety. No solos and no responses.
 
Just wondering if these things are okay at mass. If they normally are not, is there some kind of loop-hole that the USCCB gives for parishes to “get away” with them?
  1. Does the guy carrying the cross up to the altar in procession have to be an acolyte? Does he have to wear special vestments? I saw a guy who looked to be a lay-person wearing regular lay-cloths.
No, he does not have to an instituted acolyte. A clear indication that any minister may do it is in the 2002 General Introduction to the Roman Missal (GIRM), n. 120(b):
“The ministers who carry lighted candles, and between them an acolyte or other minister with the cross;”.
If there several instituted acolytes then one of them should carry the cross, rather than someone else. Parts of the GIRM supporting this:
"187. … If, however, only one acolyte is present, he should perform the more important duties while the rest are to be distributed among several ministers.
"The Introductory Rites
“188. In the procession to the altar, the acolyte may carry the cross, walking between two ministers with lighted candles. Upon reaching the altar, the acolyte places the cross upright near the altar so that it may serve as the altar cross; otherwise, he puts it in a worthy place. …”.
“100. In the absence of an instituted acolyte, lay ministers may be deputed to serve at the altar and assist the priest and the deacon; they may carry the cross, …”.
If there were one instituted acolyte then a judgement would need to be made about what was most important. To supervise from the back of the altar servers? To carry the thurible at the front? To carry the cross?

In the USA wearing vestments is not required. From the 2002 General Introduction to the Roman Missal (GIRM), with USA adaptations, which can be accessed from romanrite.com/girm.html :
“339. In the dioceses of the United States of America, acolytes, altar servers, lectors, and other lay ministers may wear the alb or other suitable vesture or other appropriate and dignified clothing.”
A lay-person is someone who is not ordained. An instituted acolyte is a lay-person.
  1. Can a parish use altar girls casually and at any time? I’ve been told that altar girls may only be used when no boys are available. I saw only altar girls at this place.
It depends on the decision of the bishop of the diocese. “107. The liturgical duties that are not proper to the priest or the deacon and are listed above (cf. nos. 100-106) may also be entrusted by a liturgical blessing or a temporary deputation to suitable lay persons chosen by the pastor or rector of the church. [footnote 89: Cf. Pontifical Commission for interpreting legal texts, response to dubium regarding can. 230 § 2: AAS 86 (1994), p. 541.] All should observe the norms established by the Bishop for his diocese regarding the office of those who serve the priest at the altar.”
  1. Can a parish singing both the Gloria and the Agnus Dei as a responsorial, with the worship director singing most of it solo? I thought the whole congregation had to say all of it.
From the GIRM, n. 53: “The Gloria is intoned by the priest or, if appropriate, by a cantor or by the choir; but it is sung either by everyone together, or by the people alternately with the choir, or by the choir alone. If not sung, it is to be recited either by all together or by two parts of the congregation responding one to the other.” So for the Gloria there is to be choir singing it, rather than just a cantor.
For the Agnus Dei, the GIRM n. 83 has: “The supplication Agnus Dei, is, as a rule, sung by the choir or cantor with the congregation responding; or it is, at least, recited aloud.” So for this there can be a cantor.
  1. Is bowing during the “He came down from Heaven” line in the creed absolutely binding? I didn’t see anyone bow at this place.
Obviously a baby cannot bow. Obviously there will be injuries or sicknesses that prevent it. But yes, the instructions are binding. From the GIRM:
“137. The Creed is sung or recited by the priest together with the people (cf. above, no. 68) with everyone standing. At the words et incarnatus est (by the power of the Holy Spirit . . . became man) all make a profound bow; but on the Solemnities of the Annunciation and of the Nativity of the Lord, all genuflect.”
 
Hmm…wow, that was very helpful, John! How do you suggest I handle the issues regarding the last two, then?
 
Hmm…wow, that was very helpful, John! How do you suggest I handle the issues regarding the last two, then?
Provide a correct example yourself with the bowing and genuflecting in the Creed. Other ways to influence others are to discuss the issue with decision makers (perhaps the cantor), write letters and support others who are following the liturgical books.

Maybe its a case of getting more involved in this parish (such as being part of the liturgy committee, being an altar server). Maybe its case of looking for another place to go to Mass where there will be fewer problems.

It is difficult to advice without knowing much about the situation there.
 
We’ve now entered the realm of such hyperrubricism that people feel the need to note that babies cannot bow.

Sheesh. Do we need a rubrical supplement just to spell that out?

Relax, people. Liturgy isn’t about checking rubrics for every conceivable event.
 
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