Are they Saved?

[heronimo]

I always think that Atheist are not saved when they die. Because if we look at the bible it says that those who are not believe in Jesus has being judged already to eternal damnation, they cant feel the unity of all christians together with God in heaven, Am I right? And Atheist totally had no God in their life. But since that is the situation I cant help myself to think that God is so merciful, so therefore there has also a posibility that God can also forgive even the non-believers like Atheists… pls help me thankssss I’m only a beginner thanks again…

 

[thistle]

I always think that Atheist are not saved when they die. Because if we look at the bible it says that those who are not believe in Jesus has being judged already to eternal damnation, they cant feel the unity of all christians together with God in heaven, Am I right? And Atheist totally had no God in their life. But since that is the situation I cant help myself to think that God is so merciful, so therefore there has also a posibility that God can also forgive even the non-believers like Atheists… pls help me thankssss I’m only a beginner thanks again…

God gave us all free will. Athiests reject God even existing so if they die unrepentent then they condemn themselves to Hell. They will not be saved.

 

[PJM]

I always think that Atheist are not saved when they die. Because if we look at the bible it says that those who are not believe in Jesus has being judged already to eternal damnation, they cant feel the unity of all christians together with God in heaven, Am I right? And Atheist totally had no God in their life. But since that is the situation I cant help myself to think that God is so merciful, so therefore there has also a posibility that God can also forgive even the non-believers like Atheists… pls help me thankssss I’m only a beginner thanks again…

Through the birth, life, death and Ressurection of Jesus Christ, Redeemption has been assurred.

However, that fact that everyone who ever lived is “Redeemend” DOES NOT mean that they are “saved.” The words have seperate and vastly different meanings. Look in up in Marian -Webster.

Chrsit Himself places conditions on salvation. Here are but two of them.

** John 3: 5**" 5*  Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."

**Mt. 19: 16 "16* *    And behold, one came up to him, saying, "Teacher, what good deed must I do, to have eternal life?" 17 And he said to him, "Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments." **

**Please be aware that this is the short list.... still more is required.**

Because God ia all everything good, God is and must be JUST.

God who is also all Mighty and all Powerfull, promises every human person, "sufficient grace" in order to accept and participate in what is necessary for our salvation.

What you describe in an "Atheist" or an agnostic, have chosen to ignore Christ, ignore His grace, and in fact, ignore GOD, what they have chosen for themselves is to spend eternity in hell!:(

 

[Tiago_Paolini]

Short answer: They may be. It depends if it is their fault that they reject God and if they live according their consciences.

Long answer:

I would like to reply the question with three paragraphs from the Cathecism of the Catholic Church (my emphasis):

Outside the Church there is no salvation

846. How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

847. This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.

848. Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men.

I would like to add the following Bible Verses too:

Romans 2:15-16
They show that the demands of the law are written in their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even defend them on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge people’s hidden works through Christ Jesus.

That is, someone who not by his/her own fault do not know Christ and his Church may be saved, if the person lived according his/her conscience.

Being atheist/agnostic not necessarily means rejecting God, because it might be that this person never actually knew God and His Church (and how could you reject something you do not even know?). It might be, for example, that the person was raised on an atheist/agnostic family and never learned about God neither were in contact with His Church. This person might even sometime or other heard some vague or wrong words about a certain God an the Church, but never fully learned what these mean.

Since a person in this situation do not believe in God because never really knew Him, this person does not have a fault then it is not guaranteed that the person will lose the salvation. But if someone fully know who is God, fully know that the Catholic Church is the only true church, fully know that outside of it there are no salvation, and yet the person does reject God; this person certainly will lose the salvation if he/she dies in this state.

I hope I have clarified the question

Regards,
Tiago

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

Will Atheists be saved? I have no idea. Assuming that God, Heaven, and Hell exist, there are still many factors to ponder. How merciful is God? What comes at Judgment Day? Is there a fork in the road to lead yourself into whatever path is more appealing to you? Among others.

:twocents:

Ironically Yours, Blade and Blood

 

[heronimo]

But how about those who dont know what is God, especially the cavemans, living in the mountains etc. and doing sinful things that are not pleasing to God and even their conscience can’t determine whether they do evil things or good things? Are they also saved?

thanks!!! to all guyzzz!!! I appreciate that!!!

 

[heronimo]

How about those people who are still searching? Let say these people knows totally what is christian philosophy, Dogmas, Theology, Cathecism etc…And they can explain it perfectly to many people and they can evangelize if they want to. But then they choose to search another philosophies mighting if there has more truthful Philosophy than Christian Philosophy. Is “mighting” like this can be a sin that can bring you to eternal damnation? How if they die in the middle of searching the truth do you think they are saved? Is there any particular verse in the Bible telling about analyzing or searching all religions, all philosophies etc. is good?

 

[PJM]

=Blade and Blood;4866765]Will Atheists be saved? I have no idea. Assuming that God, Heaven, and Hell exist, there are still many factors to ponder. How merciful is God? What comes at Judgment Day? Is there a fork in the road to lead yourself into whatever path is more appealing to you? Among others.

:twocents:

Ironically Yours, Blade and Blood

**
My dear Brother in Christ,**

Perhaps I can clarify for you?

Your wrote your post, therefore “you are.”

“your are” acknowledges that you (and me) consist of both MATTER (our bodies) and Spirit (our minds, intellect, memory and freewill… which are individually unique and “mine alone.” There is yet another spiritual “thing” that we call our soul, and it is the soul that actually controls and gives annimation (life) to our bodies.

Now a “thing” can only be what it si, it cannot be what it is not!

A “thing” can only give what it has and cannot give what it does not have. Right?

So lift your right arm, now put it down. We have just demonistrated for you the superiority of your intellect which is spirit and cotrols both your brain (MATTER) and your body (also MATTER) movements which are MATTER, not SPIIRIT. The superior always controls the inferior.

So back to our first satement “you are” and because “you are” we can know that “God is.” We know this because God is SPIRIT! And Only Spirit can generate and produce another Spirit.

Your on the right track in wondering and considering the influence and power of God’s attributes.

God is and HAS TO BE everything that is good, and nothing that is bad. That is the very Nature of God.

So let me ask you. Is being “fair,” being “JUST” a “good?” Of course it is!

So let’s look at just three of God’s Attributes: His Love, His Mercy and His Justice. God’s Love+ Gods Mercy = our Redemption! But to “redeem” does not mean to “save.” Redemption does not equate to automatic Salvation! Why? Because God is and HAS TO BE all Just.

What this means is that when we die, God is going to tally up what we have done that “was good” and subtract what we did that was bad (evil) and look at the balance. (this is a very symplestic example) Also in the equation is the seriouness of the effects of the good, vrs, the seriousness of the bad. If we die with unrepented, and unconfessed Serious (Mortal ) sins, we will not get into heaven. That is Divine Justice, and it has to be so for ALL of us.

I have onpurpose left many unanswered questions. If you’d care to ask, I would be most happy to respond to them for you.

Pray, Brother, pray

Love and prayers for you and yours

 

[Trishie]

Matthew 25, verses 31-46. Jesus speaks on what is necessary for salvation.

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

**
My dear Brother in Christ,**

Perhaps I can clarify for you?

Your wrote your post, therefore “you are.”

[snip]

Pray, Brother, pray

Love and prayers for you and yours

:ehh: That’s… uh… enlightening. Thanks for the effort, dude. And peace right back at you.

I’m a girl, by the way.

Ironically Yours.

 

[Tiago_Paolini]

But how about those who dont know what is God, especially the cavemans, living in the mountains etc. and doing sinful things that are not pleasing to God and even their conscience can’t determine whether they do evil things or good things? Are they also saved?

thanks!!! to all guyzzz!!! I appreciate that!!!

The Bible teachs that every human being has the Moral Law write in his hearth. If someone is aware of this law, and yet violates it, then the person has a fault.

In spite of existing and having existed several different civilizations around all the world, with the most different cultures you can imagine, there are ceratin basic principles that were present in every human society, for example:

• A person’s life is holy, therefore it should be preserved and respected (from this principle corroborates with the the 5th, the 7th and the 10th commandsments).
• The mankind life is holy, therefore it should be preserved and respected (it corroborates with the 4th, the 6th, and the 9th commandments).
• The truth is holy, therefore we must persue it and preserve it (it corroborates with the 1st, the 2nd, the 3rd and the 8th commandments, since God is the Truth).

There are certain circunstances that can supress one’s conscience, for example social and psycologycal factors. One is resposibly for hiss faults as long the person is conscient of the fault. Only God fully and truly knows one’s hearth, so only He can say for sure if someone have or do not have conscience of the faults, and only him can say if someone will be saved or not. Anyways, remember that always existed some people who commited crimes with the (deceiptful) excuse that they think it is right or think it is wrong.

How about those people who are still searching? Let say these people knows totally what is christian philosophy, Dogmas, Theology, Cathecism etc…And they can explain it perfectly to many people and they can evangelize if they want to. But then they choose to search another philosophies mighting if there has more truthful Philosophy than Christian Philosophy. Is “mighting” like this can be a sin that can bring you to eternal damnation? How if they die in the middle of searching the truth do you think they are saved? Is there any particular verse in the Bible telling about analyzing or searching all religions, all philosophies etc. is good?

As I said before, only God knows one’s hearth and conscience. Additionally, God cannot unjustly condemn someone, because God cannot be unjust.

The Cathecism’s quote I game say that may get the salvation those “who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience”. It is the case your cited (someone who is pursuing God).

Let’s say that for some accident this person dies before he can fully learns about God. It was not this person’s faith that he died before he could fully know God. Since this person was “seeking God with sincere hearth” and lives according to “the dictates of their conscience”, this person can be saved. Only God knows one’s true intents, so only He can say for sure that a certain person in this case was or not saved.

Lets say this person does not die. If the person is honestly seeking God, the person will eventually find Him and be in fully communion with Him and His Church.

Regards,
Tiago

 

[PJM]

:ehh: That’s… uh… enlightening. Thanks for the effort, dude. And peace right back at you.

I’m a girl, by the way.

Ironically Yours.

Dear SISTER in Christ:blush:

OPPS!

I don’t supose you’d believe that this is the first mistake I ever made? NOI, How about first mistake this year:shrug:

Please and love, God Bless,

 

[heronimo]

Thanks Tiago! can you please explain to me more further regarding this in a simple manner? And I let you analyze my situation right now. I am only 16 and I’m a Filipino so some things that you say is ununderstandable (because of the language)? I’m sorry for my repitative questions and some favors. Honestly the person that I’m talking about “searching” is myself. Before, I am a “solid” Catholic, but now I started to stop going to mass every sunday, stop praying to God and anything about duties for God. You know, I am a very open minded person and that is what I hate about myself and because I am an open minded person I started to confuse, to be curious about us, “we as a Catholic” . Since I read some Books of facts or saw in some news I started to think, “Why is that there are so many religions in the world”? Is there really what we called God? Is there some proofs about his existence? Why there are some miracles outside the church? Why Islamism grows faster than Catholics? If the catholic church is the true religion, why are so many people have no common sense to know this truth, we are only one third of the world, it should be one whole right? This questions are so very sensitive and there are so many issues and some arguments to be tackle here. That is why I stopped worshiping God, is because I want to dedicate my Life first to study God, before worshiping him. And through my life I promise to him that I will be a priest and an apologist like Karl Keating too, If I discovered all of the answers in these questions. I am eager to know him deep in my heart Tiago. Now! how if I die do you think God will forgive me?

 

[PJM]

How about those people who are still searching? Let say these people knows totally what is christian philosophy, Dogmas, Theology, Cathecism etc…And they can explain it perfectly to many people and they can evangelize if they want to. But then they choose to search another philosophies mighting if there has more truthful Philosophy than Christian Philosophy. Is “mighting” like this can be a sin that can bring you to eternal damnation? How if they die in the middle of searching the truth do you think they are saved? Is there any particular verse in the Bible telling about analyzing or searching all religions, all philosophies etc. is good?

The specific answer to your last question is NO.

The situtation as you describe it brings to the fore two points.

1. Knowledge of The truth (their is only one possible truth per issue.)
2. Rejection of that truth. (Still searching is a rejection, and an uncertainty, of what has already been found and understood well enough to share it.

John 14:6 "Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me.

I = singular
am = singular
the =singular
way= singular
the= singular
truth =singular
the =singular
life (Salvation} both singular
me = singular (saying in the specific manner the He Jesus as God perscribes.

John 15:1 "I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch of mine that bears no fruit, he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already made clean by the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. 5 I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in me, and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If a man does not abide in me, he is cast forth as a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire and burned. 7* If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you will, and it shall be done for you. 8* By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be my disciples. 9 As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you; abide in my love. 10* If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commandments and abide in his love. 11 These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be full."**

So again, it would seem clear that your friends salvation is in GRAVE danger. Your friend is playing with "fire."

Hope this helps you?

Love and prayers,

 

[Jerry-Jet]

Nearly everyone is capable of mortal sin because everyone has the natural law written upon their hearts regardless of what religion they may belong to–whether they believe in God or not–and whether they have knowledge of the Catholic Church or not.

I say nearly everyone because of course those who have mental deficits and those who are insane would not be capable of mortal sin.

Since an atheist doesn’t believe in God by choice–what are the odds that an atheist would vioate the natural law at some time in their lives–thus committing mortal sin–and also be unrepentent?

I’d say that the odds are extremely high.

So in other words the odds that an athiest would die in a state of mortal sin and thus go to Hell are extremely high.

To not go to hell the atheist would have to never violate the natural law–be invincibly ignorant of Chirst or if they did vioalte the natural law would have to be repentent for doing so.

So is it possible that an atheist could get to Heaven–maybe theoretically but I’d say as a practical matter–no.

Unrepentent atheists will inhabit Hell.

But with God all things are possible–so we can’t say for sure that an atheists might make it to Heaven but if the chances of them doing so are 1 in a trillion–if we are truely christian ourselves–we must evangelize them!

 

[Esquire0130]

In the parable of the Good Samaritan, the three who encounter the robber victim lying in the gutter are a priest, a Levite and a Samaritan.

Undoubtedly, Christ chose a priest and a Levite to represent believers, and the Samaritan to represent unbelievers.

I suspect that if Christ were to address the same parable to us today, he would have chosen “a bishop, a church-going Catholic and an atheist” as the three coming upon the robbery victim lying in the gutter – two believing non-doers, and a non-believing doer.

Let us assume that that in fact is what Christ would have done today – if after the parable Christ Heaven, what would He have said?