Are those who do not receive Jesus in Holy Eucharist really Christians? Is it insanity for them to continue claiming to be Christians?

[StMarina303ad]

Jesus commanded us to “Eat My Flesh and Drink My Blood” multiple times in John 6 after one of the miracles He did multiplying the Loaves and Fishes to show us that it is by a miracle that He gives us is Body & Blood. Towards the end of the chapter many of Jesus’ own disciples (not the 12) left Him on this one issue.

So can anyone truly be a Christian who does not partake in Holy Eucharist - the reception of His True Body and True Blood?

Orthodox Christians and Eastern Catholic Christians begin receiving Holy Eucharist as infants immediately after Baptism and Chrismation during the Rite which includes the reception of all 3 Mysteries/Sacraments at once. It has always been, since the beginning of Christianity, those 3 Mysteries which is the initiation in to the Christian Family, the Christian Church.

I know that lots of people consider themselves Christian, but that doesn’t make them a Christian. I could consider myself a princess, act like I would think a princess should act, dress as a princess should dress, etc., but my thinking and believing I was a princess would certainly not make me a princess.

In fact if I went around claiming to be a princess I would be insane…so similarly isn’t it insanity for someone to consider themselves a Christian when they have not actually “married the prince” when they have never actually been initiated into the Christian Faith by way of Holy Baptism, Chrismation and receiving Holy Eucharist?

There are only two Churches which have valid Eucharist and Mysteries/Sacraments…the same two Churches which maintain an unbroken Apostolic Succession Line back to Jesus’ 12 Apostles. Those Churches are know today as the: Orthodox and Catholic Churches.

Pick one! Become one! And see what it is really like to actually be a Christian!

God Bless everyone! Let’s be sure to respect everyone’s opinions even if we should disagree with one another. God loves us all and we are to love each other.

 

[Publisher]

I am a Friend. I have not been baptized in water and I do not participate in outward forms of eating a morsal of bread and a sip of wine and consider it “communion”. I am a Christian in faith and practice. Those who would tell us we are not Christians…we’re ok with that…we still choose to follow Christ the Light.

 

[StMarina303ad]

I am a Friend. I have not been baptized in water and I do not participate in outward forms of eating a morsal of bread and a sip of wine and consider it “communion”. I am a Christian in faith and practice. Those who would tell us we are not Christians…we’re ok with that…we still choose to follow Christ the Light.

In following Christ the Light, why not go ahead and also obey His own Words (John 6) by becoming Baptized, Chrismated and then receive Him in the Eucharist?

 

[Publisher]

In following Christ the Light, why not go ahead and also obey His own Words (John 6) by becoming Baptized, Chrismated and then receive Him in the Eucharist?

I do obey him…just not to your standards. I have been baptized with the True Baptism which incorporates me into His Body…by the Holy Spirit…I commune with Him daily and in Meeting as two or three of us BELIEVE His words …“I am there in their midst”

I will follow the counsel He gives…He is the True Light which enlightens every man. If there is a judgement to stand before, it is I, not anyone else, that will stand before Him in judgement…I can live or die with that…“I am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him against that day.” I know Whom it is I believe…I will trust in that.

 

[StMarina303ad]

I do obey him…just not to your standards. I have been baptized with the True Baptism which incorporates me into His Body…by the Holy Spirit…I commune with Him daily and in Meeting as two or three of us BELIEVE His words …“I am there in their midst”

I will follow the counsel He gives…He is the True Light which enlightens every man. If there is a judgement to stand before, it is I, not anyone else, that will stand before Him in judgement…I can live or die with that…“I am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him against that day.” I know Whom it is I believe…I will trust in that.

“I think I’m a princess, I believe I’m a princess”…nope still not a princess.

May God bless you and I hope that your are some how led to the Real Jesus Christ and do actually receive the Holy Spirit through Chrismation at some point in your life.

 

[Publisher]

“I think I’m a princess, I believe I’m a princess”…nope still not a princess.

May God bless you and I hope that your are some how led to the Real Jesus Christ and do actually receive the Holy Spirit through Chrismation at some point in your life.

LOL…we can always use others prayers…even when those prayers are misplaced…but thank you anyway. Since you are a daughter of the King…you are a princess…so…we both win.

 

[BSHoop96]

Jesus commanded us to “Eat My Flesh and Drink My Blood” multiple times in John 6 after one of the miracles He did multiplying the Loaves and Fishes to show us that it is by a miracle that He gives us is Body & Blood. Towards the end of the chapter many of Jesus’ own disciples (not the 12) left Him on this one issue.

So can anyone truly be a Christian who does not partake in Holy Eucharist - the reception of His True Body and True Blood?

Orthodox Christians and Eastern Catholic Christians begin receiving Holy Eucharist as infants immediately after Baptism and Chrismation during the Rite which includes the reception of all 3 Mysteries/Sacraments at once. It has always been, since the beginning of Christianity, those 3 Mysteries which is the initiation in to the Christian Family, the Christian Church.

I know that lots of people consider themselves Christian, but that doesn’t make them a Christian. I could consider myself a princess, act like I would think a princess should act, dress as a princess should dress, etc., but my thinking and believing I was a princess would certainly not make me a princess.

In fact if I went around claiming to be a princess I would be insane…so similarly isn’t it insanity for someone to consider themselves a Christian when they have not actually “married the prince” when they have never actually been initiated into the Christian Faith by way of Holy Baptism, Chrismation and receiving Holy Eucharist?

There are only two Churches which have valid Eucharist and Mysteries/Sacraments…the same two Churches which maintain an unbroken Apostolic Succession Line back to Jesus’ 12 Apostles. Those Churches are know today as the: Orthodox and Catholic Churches.

Pick one! Become one! And see what it is really like to actually be a Christian!

God Bless everyone! Let’s be sure to respect everyone’s opinions even if we should disagree with one another. God loves us all and we are to love each other.

I have to strongly disagree. If someone believes in the Trinity, believes that Jesus suffered and died for their salvation and will receive it thru His mercy then they are Christian. Because their sincere belief is not exactly the same as ours does not make them a non-Christian. It makes them a Christian “without the fullness of the faith”. I would just venture a guess here that even the Pope would give you an argument on this one.

 

[SyCarl]

I have a problem with the interpretation of John 6 by the Catholic and Orthodox Churches for a number of reasons.

One of Jesus’ statements is:

“I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread also which I will give for the life of the world is My flesh.”
(John 6:51 NASB)

This is an unconditional promise that if anyone eats of that bread will have eternal life.

He basically repeat this a couple of verses later.

"He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.
(John 6:54 NASB)

This is another unconditional statement.

Does this mean if I, or anyone else, goes to a Catholic or Orthodox Church and illicitly receives the Eucharist, does that mean that I will automatically have eternal life? I would have done precisely what Jesus says in these verses even if I didn’t believe since the change in the elements depends only on the consecration. There was a question in Ask an Apologist of what would happen if a dog ate a host that fell on the floor. The answer was that the dog would have eaten Jesus’ body and blood. THREAD=259122[/THREAD]Jesus must mean something other than the ordinary sense of these words since we know that faith is required. If He did not mean them to be taken literally, why should we take them as being so?

 

[1ke]

StMarina,

Are you a Catholic? Your statement regarding who is/isn’t a Christian is not in line with Catholic teaching.

You are aware, are you not, that the Catholic Church teaches every baptized person is a Christian?

Certainly, Catholics and Orthodox complete the Sacraments of Initiation through Eucharist and Confirmation and the Catholic Church has the fullness of truth.

However, the Sacrament necessary to incorporate us into the Body of Christ is Baptism. All those who are baptized are rightly called Christians.

 

[Calliope]

I was thinking about this very issue while I was at work today, how Christianity must be the easiest club to join, all you have to do is say you are Christian, and everyone is supposed to be impressed.

But Jesus was pretty clear about what it took to follow him, and it was way more than lip service.

Even Catholics, going on about how they have the real presence and the real sacraments and the fullness of grace, most of them, you couldn’t tell that they have any of that stuff based on how they live and act.

It all seems pretty pathetic, say the right words, brag that you belong to the right church, but so very few actually seem to care a lick about LIVING as Jesus instructed, they want all those other things to save them, the prayers, the church they belong to, the fact that they keep saying repeatedly they are Christian, while using every loophole they can find to act like they are anything but a follower of Christ.

If people believed what they say they do, their lives would show it. If they can’t fool one another here on earth, I’m sure they are not fooling God or Christ either.

Christ said he is the way, follow him, if you love him keep his word.

He didn’t promise any loopholes for all the various practices that have since been cooked up in his name.

I don’t care how many novenas a person does or how many first Saturdays they can brag about, if they don’t live their faith day to day, if they don’t BE Christ to the people around them, they are kidding themselves.

If people really believed Christ is the way, they’d live it. They keep hoping someone will come up with an easier alternative way, a way that doesn’t involve them sacrificing pride, comfort, or bragging rights.

Calliope

 

[BSHoop96]

I have a problem with the interpretation of John 6 by the Catholic and Orthodox Churches for a number of reasons.

One of Jesus’ statements is:

This is an unconditional promise that if anyone eats of that bread will have eternal life.

He basically repeat this a couple of verses later.

This is another unconditional statement.

Does this mean if I, or anyone else, goes to a Catholic or Orthodox Church and illicitly receives the Eucharist, does that mean that I will automatically have eternal life? I would have done precisely what Jesus says in these verses even if I didn’t believe since the change in the elements depends only on the consecration. There was a question in Ask an Apologist of what would happen if a dog ate a host that fell on the floor. The answer was that the dog would have eaten Jesus’ body and blood. THREAD=259122[/THREAD]Jesus must mean something other than the ordinary sense of these words since we know that faith is required. If He did not mean them to be taken literally, why should we take them as being so?

Okay this has already been argued over and over and over…on here. I suggest you look up one of those threads.

 

[SyCarl]

Okay this has already been argued over and over and over…on here. I suggest you look up one of those threads.

Yes, I have taken part in a number of them and never received a satisfactory answer. Basically it has been said that Jesus didn’t mean it that way without explaining why, if He didn’t mean part of it literally, we should take the rest of it literally.

 

[BSHoop96]

Yes, I have taken part in a number of them and never received a satisfactory answer. Basically it has been said that Jesus didn’t mean it that way without explaining why, if He didn’t mean part of it literally, we should take the rest of it literally.

Well then I won’t go into them again. They will always be unsatisfactory for you because you don’t WANT to believe them and therefore do not listen with an open mind. Perhaps you should try one of the well-known apologists such as Tim Staples. I will suggest his CD of his discussion with Gregg (last name), a protestant. If you can listen to two people as knowledgeable about their faiths as those two and not at least see how we can interpret the way we do then you are not being honest with yourself. Now why don’t we get back on topic on being a Christian without being a Catholic?

 

[SyCarl]

Well then I won’t go into them again. They will always be unsatisfactory for you because you don’t WANT to believe them and therefore do not listen with an open mind. Perhaps you should try one of the well-known apologists such as Tim Staples. I will suggest his CD of his discussion with Gregg (last name), a protestant. If you can listen to two people as knowledgeable about their faiths as those two and not at least see how we can interpret the way we do then you are not being honest with yourself. Now why don’t we get back on topic on being a Christian without being a Catholic?

I have been on topic since the original post assumes that Jesus was being completely literal in John 6. If He was not, then there is no case for the necessity of the Eucharist in determining if one is a Christian. Note the original poster is Orthodox so she wasn’t raising being a Christian without being Catholic.

 

[Gamera]

Every validly baptized person is a Christian. He may or may not be a bad Christian, he may or may not remain in a state of grace, but he never can be “un-Christianized” because the seal of baptism is indelible.

 

[a_mirror_dimly]

Every validly baptized person is a Christian. He may or may not be a bad Christian, he may or may not remain in a state of grace, but he never can be “un-Christianized” because the seal of baptism is indelible.

So are you supposing that one can be rightfully called a Christian and yet not receive salvation? Interesting, I don’t think I’ve heard that stance before…

 

[BSHoop96]

I was thinking about this very issue while I was at work today, how Christianity must be the easiest club to join, all you have to do is say you are Christian, and everyone is supposed to be impressed.

But Jesus was pretty clear about what it took to follow him, and it was way more than lip service.

Even Catholics, going on about how they have the real presence and the real sacraments and the fullness of grace, most of them, you couldn’t tell that they have any of that stuff based on how they live and act.

It all seems pretty pathetic, say the right words, brag that you belong to the right church, but so very few actually seem to care a lick about LIVING as Jesus instructed, they want all those other things to save them, the prayers, the church they belong to, the fact that they keep saying repeatedly they are Christian, while using every loophole they can find to act like they are anything but a follower of Christ.

If people believed what they say they do, their lives would show it. If they can’t fool one another here on earth, I’m sure they are not fooling God or Christ either.

Christ said he is the way, follow him, if you love him keep his word.

He didn’t promise any loopholes for all the various practices that have since been cooked up in his name.

I don’t care how many novenas a person does or how many first Saturdays they can brag about, if they don’t live their faith day to day, if they don’t BE Christ to the people around them, they are kidding themselves.

If people really believed Christ is the way, they’d live it. They keep hoping someone will come up with an easier alternative way, a way that doesn’t involve them sacrificing pride, comfort, or bragging rights.

Calliope

My, my…such bitterness. How would you describe yourself?.. you come on here and ridicule our faith, painting us all with the same brush, when you must have just read a couple of previous threads arguing against the OP’s opinion that non-Catholics are non-Christian.

As far as the parts of your post I have bolded…you obviously know nothing of the history, teachings, or tradition of the Catholic church which explains the uninformed way you mention these things, mostly glaringly, the statement that we think “these things” will save us. Christ will save us.

There are insincere people in all religions. That is not the fault of religion.

 

[StMarina303ad]

Yes, I have taken part in a number of them and never received a satisfactory answer. Basically it has been said that Jesus didn’t mean it that way without explaining why, if He didn’t mean part of it literally, we should take the rest of it literally.

Jesus not only said what He meant - we must eat His Flesh and drink His Blood, but before His crucifixion also He showed the Apostles how to Consecrate bread and wine into His True Body and True Blood at the Last Supper. And in one of the Corinthians, St. Paul even reiterates how serious it is to receive Holy Eucharist and to be aware not to eat it unworthily.

Plus both Christian Traditions: Orthodox and Catholic which each have the unbroken chain of Apostolic Succession (2000 years of Christians living and dying for Christ) each recognize the validity of Christ’s statement and each have maintained Holy Eucharist.

 

[sandusky]

Every validly baptized person is a Christian. He may or may not be a bad Christian, he may or may not remain in a state of grace, but he never can be “un-Christianized” because the seal of baptism is indelible.

Catholics and their magisterium are unbelievably inconsistent in this:**John 6:53

So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves.**If one does not eat the flesh and drink the blood of Jesus, he has no life in him.

Catholics should get coherent in their doctrines, and quit the seeker-friendly shell game by proclaiming the convictions of their teaching of the eucharist—no eat flesh, no have life, no have kingdom, going to hell.

 

[Publisher]

In the Journal of George Fox he wrote…(this was written during the English Reformation so the term “Papist” should not be taken as an insult…if Fox would have had a concept of “PC”, he would have used “Catholic.”

“all christians are believers, both Protestants and Papists;” The Lord opened to me that if all were believers, then they were all born of God, and had passed from death to life; [becoming a new creature, old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new] and that none were true believers unless that had happened; and though others said they were believers, yet they were not."

Fox taught, and Friends believe, those who live a new life in Christ are Christians not only in name, but in how they live…unless this new life is lived out in the daily of life, one is not a Christian…unless Christ is central and His sanctifying work accomplished in us by his Spirit to make us over in his image, no one is a Christian…baptized or not.