Are those with SSA discouraged from marrying?

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I would be more concerned about Canon 1098.

Can. 1098 A person contracts invalidly who enters into a marriage deceived by malice, perpetrated to obtain consent, concerning some quality of the other partner which by its very nature can gravely disturb the partnership of conjugal life.

I’m guessing the Latin for “malice” isn’t quite so strong as the English word. It is hard to imagine a gay man marrying a woman without telling her (at least in some way, shape, or form), unless that man has a reckless disregard for her welfare and autonomy.
Yes, I think that section is more relevant here.

Hypothetically it would seem to follow that a gay man can validly marry if he is prepared to (and able to) fulfill the duties of conjugal life, and that he has not deceived his wife regarding this “quality” of his.

Whether that’s a good idea is a separate question to whether canon law actually permits it.
 
Yes, I think that section is more relevant here.

Hypothetically it would seem to follow that a gay man can validly marry if he is prepared to (and able to) fulfill the duties of conjugal life, and that he has not deceived his wife regarding this “quality” of his.

Whether that’s a good idea is a separate question to whether canon law actually permits it.
Do you think that a gay man could marry a woman, not tell her he is gay, and yet not be “deceiving” her?
 
Do you think that a gay man could marry a woman, not tell her he is gay, and yet not be “deceiving” her?
No, I would expect this is something to be disclosed. Canon law does not spell this out, but I think it applies. And while it might be hypothetically allowable, it doesn’t seem like a good idea in general.

I do not think that same applies to a man who is attracted to both sexes, thereby perfectly capable per se of fulfilling the duties of conjugal life, regardless of his struggles with SSA. But here it may depend on a number of factors for any given couple, such as the express desires of the spouses to know about such issues, the strength of the attractions (SSA may be weaker or stronger in any given individual), and any history of unchastity with the same sex.
 
I don’t think it’s right for someone with SSA to marry. They will be living a lie and be dissatisfied with the relationship. Some people obviously can do it, but the call to SSA is very strong for some people both men and women. It is definitely grounds for annulment if you are misrepresenting yourself. Just because a person with SSA can have fulfilling sex with the opposite sex doesn’t mean that eventually it won’t be enough.
 
I don’t think it’s right for someone with SSA to marry. They will be living a lie and be dissatisfied with the relationship. Some people obviously can do it, but the call to SSA is very strong for some people both men and women. It is definitely grounds for annulment if you are misrepresenting yourself. Just because a person with SSA can have fulfilling sex with the opposite sex doesn’t mean that eventually it won’t be enough.
Amusing post. Pray tell, why would people with SSA be incapable of chastity within marriage, whereas straight people would be capable of chastity?

Life isn’t about getting “enough” out of your sex life. If anyone, gay or straight, is trying to do that, they will likely end up being unfaithful. Virtue involves dying to self.
 
To the OP: I suppose it would depend on the level of attraction.

Regarding canon law and “annulments,” a lot could be said. I’ll only state that, yes, it does happen that some people with “SSA” don’t tell their prospective spouse about their attractions. Of course, I only see the cases where this is revealed and then the marriage then turns out badly. I imagine there are times when the marriage continues after the revelation.

Dan
 
I can’t imagine being encouraged to enter into a sexual partnership with someone I was physically repulsed by. I am straight man and I am repulsed by the idea of sex with a man. I know gay men feel the same way about sex with a woman. Sure, it might be “possible” but you did ask if it was “encouraged” and I can’t imagine that it would be. I think that the best course of action for a man with exclusive same sex attraction is a life of celibacy and chastity.
 
I can’t imagine being encouraged to enter into a sexual partnership with someone I was physically repulsed by. I am straight man and I am repulsed by the idea of sex with a man. I know gay men feel the same way about sex with a woman.
You don’t know that. Some gay men feel that way, and some don’t.
 
And to apply your own standards here - what in canon law would make it neccessary for a person with SSA to disclose that to their spouse? One would need to conclude that SSA is a “quality of the other party, which of its very nature can seriously disrupt the partnership of conjugal life”. From your response above, you don’t seem to think that’s the case. I think it is an issue if the person has exclusive SSA, but if they are bisexual, and freely choose to enter a heterosexual marriage, then I dont see the concern.

SSA is only an issue for a marriage if the person chooses to act on such an attraction. When you marry, you promise to foresake all others, so I see no difference between someone who is say bisexual entering marriage, and choosing to foresake all others (which in that case may include males and females) and a straight person who foresakes all others, in their case the “all others” is merely a smaller pool. But the principle remains the same.
Couldn’t this, then, also apply to, say, people who are able to consummate a marriage, and who are, on some level, attracted to their spouse…but who struggle with pedophilia? Other sexual disorders? Etc.? You don’t think they ought to tell a fiancé about these things?? Sure, they (hopefully) are planning to enter marriage “forsaking all others”, but their spouse needs to consent to the whole package, don’t they? These issues are about WAY more than just “physical attraction” in most cases. :confused:
 
Couldn’t this, then, also apply to, say, people who are able to consummate a marriage, and who are, on some level, attracted to their spouse…but who struggle with pedophilia? Other sexual disorders? Etc.? You don’t think they ought to tell a fiancé about these things?? Sure, they (hopefully) are planning to enter marriage “forsaking all others”, but their spouse needs to consent to the whole package, don’t they? These issues are about WAY more than just “physical attraction” in most cases. :confused:
Potentially, but again I think it depends on the individual case and the level of attraction.

To be clear though, I consider pedophilia to be a far more serious disorder than SSA. A more careful pastoral approach may be needed, in terms of spiritual direction and potentially therapy. It’s beyond my pay grade to comment further on this difficult issue.
 
We can assume with more-or-less 100% assurance that in past centuries, SSA people with almost zero (physical) attraction to the opposite sex continued to marry and have children. Insofar as the essentials of marriage are concerned, there is no basis to say that the marriages were not valid, and the very idea of revealing this information in past ages would have been a cultural absurdity.

The idea of powerful physical attraction has become more relevant today because as a society, we are hypersexualized, often including even devout & chaste people, either from having a checkered past or by consistently maintaining the goal of chastity but nonetheless being affected and worn down by the surrounding culture. For a homosexual man, the tactile feeling of vaginal sex is no less sensually pleasing to him than it is for a heterosexual man, and a healthy male will have no issue experiencing climax. Of course, there will not be present her visually stunning beauty for him, and although this is easily a great issue of contention, it is not something that makes marriage an impossibility, as it would for two members of the same sex.

In our current age, which has a high focus on the distribution of information and knowledge, it is increasingly imprudent for a person to marry somebody without telling them that they are SSA; exclusively SSA. I confess myself that I feel doubtful I would want to marry a homosexual woman, because the idea that I would not be physically attractive to her in our coupling makes me sad. I suppose that may be a shallowness in my own character, but there it is, and there are far more people that would have far more negative reaction than I.

You can make very strong (and obvious) arguments that exclusively SSA people are called towards generous singleness, or as a religious, or in Holy Orders, but there is no authority to say that marriage as a vocation is barred from them.
 
We can assume with more-or-less 100% assurance that in past centuries, SSA people with almost zero (physical) attraction to the opposite sex continued to marry and have children. Insofar as the essentials of marriage are concerned, there is no basis to say that the marriages were not valid, and the very idea of revealing this information in past ages would have been a cultural absurdity.

The idea of powerful physical attraction has become more relevant today because as a society, we are hypersexualized, often including even devout & chaste people, either from having a checkered past or by consistently maintaining the goal of chastity but nonetheless being affected and worn down by the surrounding culture. For a homosexual man, the tactile feeling of vaginal sex is no less sensually pleasing to him than it is for a heterosexual man, and a healthy male will have no issue experiencing climax. Of course, there will not be present her visually stunning beauty for him, and although this is easily a great issue of contention, it is not something that makes marriage an impossibility, as it would for two members of the same sex.

In our current age, which has a high focus on the distribution of information and knowledge, it is increasingly imprudent for a person to marry somebody without telling them that they are SSA; exclusively SSA. I confess myself that I feel doubtful I would want to marry a homosexual woman, because the idea that I would not be physically attractive to her in our coupling makes me sad. I suppose that may be a shallowness in my own character, but there it is, and there are far more people that would have far more negative reaction than I.

You can make very strong (and obvious) arguments that exclusively SSA people are called towards generous singleness, or as a religious, or in Holy Orders, but there is no authority to say that marriage as a vocation is barred from them.
VERY good post.

I do want to disagree with the bolded portion, however. Sodomy was not talked about, for the most part, in past Christian generations (though see Chaucer), but there was certainly a knowledge that some men were inclined toward passionate friendships with other men and some men weren’t. Consider Shakespeare, for instance, or Whitman (or on the female side, Virginia Woolf). I have no doubt men did not hide from their wives what they published to the world. So I think that the broad notion of same-sex attraction as a longing for certain kinds of relationships wouldn’t have been taboo in a marriage. But the notion of SSA as a desire for sodomy would have been taboo.

Then again, defining SSA as the desire for sodomy is just very false to the phenomenon. When we say that a 13-year-old boy is attracted to a girl, do we mean that he’s attracted to HER, or to a sex act? :confused:
 
I believe this one of those case by case deals.

First of all, remember to do unto your spouse as you would have then do unto you. What I mean is… if you are not able to totally love and be intimate with your spouse emotionally, physically, and spiritually then, don’t get married. If you are unable to fully commit to your spouse and know that marriage will cause you to lust or covet another outside the marriage, please do not marry.

So, in a nutshell, regardless of what gender you are attracted to if you cannot adhere to and uphold the vows of Marriage including your responsibilities towards both your spouse and the Sacrament then, do not even consider it.

Marriage is not just a business proposition as society depicts it today. It is meant to be a foretaste of our heavenly union with Divinity. Consider the feelings of the other person as well. I recommend reading the book “Theology of the Body” by Christopher West for more insight on this beautiful sacrament.
 
I believe this one of those case by case deals.

First of all, remember to do unto your spouse as you would have then do unto you. What I mean is… if you are not able to totally love and be intimate with your spouse emotionally, physically, and spiritually then, don’t get married. If you are unable to fully commit to your spouse and know that marriage will cause you to lust or covet another outside the marriage, please do not marry.

So, in a nutshell, regardless of what gender you are attracted to if you cannot adhere to and uphold the vows of Marriage including your responsibilities towards both your spouse and the Sacrament then, do not even consider it.

Marriage is not just a business proposition as society depicts it today. It is meant to be a foretaste of our heavenly union with Divinity. Consider the feelings of the other person as well. I recommend reading the book “Theology of the Body” by Christopher West for more insight on this beautiful sacrament.
Why is this necessary? Marriage is about carnal union not spiritual union.
 
Why is this necessary? Marriage is about carnal union not spiritual union.
Hello,

Well, it is a communion/partnership of the whole of life (c. 1055). That doesn’t mean that everything has to be totally compatible, peaceful, united, etc. “Incompatible” people can marry each other–we don’t need “soul mates” in order to have a valid marriage. But, obviously people who do not “get along” physically and personally are probably not the best partners for each other.

Dan
 
Why is this necessary? Marriage is about carnal union not spiritual union.
I don’t think you should de-emphasize the importance of romance and attraction in a successful marriage. You’re making marriage sound like an unpleasant, though perhaps necessary, business venture.
 
Hmm… honestly as long as you realize sexual thoughts about anyone else but your spouse is sin I think its silly to need to confess all your past sins to your future spouse in which you are forgiven and not subject to anymore.
In high school I had many sexual/romantic thoughts of a close friend who was also a girl. Even had innapropriate dreams. This went on for at least three years I think. After I studied Gods law more I realized all those were sin. I also realized I love my friend and feel extremely close to her as a sister. We had been through a lot together, could finish each others sentences, often said the same thing as eachother at the same time etc. It was amazing to have such a close and like minded friend I thought we were soulmates or something. We were, but in a Christian sister way and not my confused way.
I never told anyone except for my exboyfriend and in the sacrament of reconciliation. After that I realized the only sexual thoughts I could allow myself to have was for my future husband.
Thats another thing. I probably would have identified myself with SSA or maybe asexual. Unlike my friends, I didnt really think or say:“wow that guys hot” etc etc. I was attracted only to personality and emotional connection. I think this may be the way God intended us to be; but our modern lust society confuses no “attraction” to “hot” bodies of the opposite sex as either homosexuality or asexuality. I totally believe these are irrelevant to the real love God intends for us to experience.
Let me tell you it wasnt until I dated and became engaged to my now husband that I had the most intense AND pure sexual feelings ever. It is SO different. I love him to death, and his AMAZING heart is what is so so sexy to me! Im ALWAYS extremely excited to be intimate with him. If I hadnt found him I probably would have become a nun… actually yes I was considering it. But God told me no, I have a different amazing gift planned for you!
One amazing thing about marriage instead of sex being a sin, it becomes an amazing pure gift a man and wife give eachother. It is pure, intense, and unworldly. You truly become one and it is real heaven on earth.
No I never told my husband about those feelings in high school. Maybe someday, but even as an extremely honest and open person I DO NOT believe its necessary to tell him or others! This is my past sin which I have long been FORGIVEN. I no longer allow any sexual thoughts of women OR men other than my husband! So what is the problem of past SSA? As long as you dont experience it anymore and reserve feelings ONLY for your spouse and never for any other woman or man.
 
Hmm… honestly as long as you realize sexual thoughts about anyone else but your spouse is sin I think its silly to need to confess all your past sins to your future spouse in which you are forgiven and not subject to anymore.
In high school I had many sexual/romantic thoughts of a close friend who was also a girl. Even had innapropriate dreams. This went on for at least three years I think. After I studied Gods law more I realized all those were sin. I also realized I love my friend and feel extremely close to her as a sister. We had been through a lot together, could finish each others sentences, often said the same thing as eachother at the same time etc. It was amazing to have such a close and like minded friend I thought we were soulmates or something. We were, but in a Christian sister way and not my confused way.
I never told anyone except for my exboyfriend and in the sacrament of reconciliation. After that I realized the only sexual thoughts I could allow myself to have was for my future husband.
Thats another thing. I probably would have identified myself with SSA or maybe asexual. Unlike my friends, I didnt really think or say:“wow that guys hot” etc etc. I was attracted only to personality and emotional connection. I think this may be the way God intended us to be; but our modern lust society confuses no “attraction” to “hot” bodies of the opposite sex as either homosexuality or asexuality. I totally believe these are irrelevant to the real love God intends for us to experience.
Let me tell you it wasnt until I dated and became engaged to my now husband that I had the most intense AND pure sexual feelings ever. It is SO different. I love him to death, and his AMAZING heart is what is so so sexy to me! Im ALWAYS extremely excited to be intimate with him. If I hadnt found him I probably would have become a nun… actually yes I was considering it. But God told me no, I have a different amazing gift planned for you!
One amazing thing about marriage instead of sex being a sin, it becomes an amazing pure gift a man and wife give eachother. It is pure, intense, and unworldly. You truly become one and it is real heaven on earth.
No I never told my husband about those feelings in high school. Maybe someday, but even as an extremely honest and open person I DO NOT believe its necessary to tell him or others! This is my past sin which I have long been FORGIVEN. I no longer allow any sexual thoughts of women OR men other than my husband! So what is the problem of past SSA? As long as you dont experience it anymore and reserve feelings ONLY for your spouse and never for any other woman or man.
When you got married, it doesn’t sound like you genuinely had same-sex attraction. That changes the conversation significantly.
 
Hmm… honestly as long as you realize sexual thoughts about anyone else but your spouse is sin I think its silly to need to confess all your past sins to your future spouse in which you are forgiven and not subject to anymore.
In high school I had many sexual/romantic thoughts of a close friend who was also a girl. Even had innapropriate dreams. This went on for at least three years I think. After I studied Gods law more I realized all those were sin. I also realized I love my friend and feel extremely close to her as a sister. We had been through a lot together, could finish each others sentences, often said the same thing as eachother at the same time etc. It was amazing to have such a close and like minded friend I thought we were soulmates or something. We were, but in a Christian sister way and not my confused way.
I never told anyone except for my exboyfriend and in the sacrament of reconciliation. After that I realized the only sexual thoughts I could allow myself to have was for my future husband.
Thats another thing. I probably would have identified myself with SSA or maybe asexual. Unlike my friends, I didnt really think or say:“wow that guys hot” etc etc. I was attracted only to personality and emotional connection. I think this may be the way God intended us to be; but our modern lust society confuses no “attraction” to “hot” bodies of the opposite sex as either homosexuality or asexuality. I totally believe these are irrelevant to the real love God intends for us to experience.
Let me tell you it wasnt until I dated and became engaged to my now husband that I had the most intense AND pure sexual feelings ever. It is SO different. I love him to death, and his AMAZING heart is what is so so sexy to me! Im ALWAYS extremely excited to be intimate with him. If I hadnt found him I probably would have become a nun… actually yes I was considering it. But God told me no, I have a different amazing gift planned for you!
One amazing thing about marriage instead of sex being a sin, it becomes an amazing pure gift a man and wife give eachother. It is pure, intense, and unworldly. You truly become one and it is real heaven on earth.
No I never told my husband about those feelings in high school. Maybe someday, but even as an extremely honest and open person I DO NOT believe its necessary to tell him or others! This is my past sin which I have long been FORGIVEN. I no longer allow any sexual thoughts of women OR men other than my husband! So what is the problem of past SSA? As long as you dont experience it anymore and reserve feelings ONLY for your spouse and never for any other woman or man.
Your post does make a lot of sense to me. I think that we can often tend to get distracted by our personal preferences and feelings, thinking that they are the most important thing. But in marriage, the most important thing is the decision we make to our spouse to love with permanence and fidelity, forsaking all others, until death.
 
No I never told my husband about those feelings in high school. Maybe someday, but even as an extremely honest and open person I DO NOT believe its necessary to tell him or others! This is my past sin which I have long been FORGIVEN. I no longer allow any sexual thoughts of women OR men other than my husband! So what is the problem of past SSA? As long as you dont experience it anymore and reserve feelings ONLY for your spouse and never for any other woman or man.
Past SSA (like, experiences as a teen, etc.) is very different from ongoing struggles. Much like someone who looked at porn a few times as a teen is in a very different place than someone with an ongoing porn struggle.

I wouldn’t expect a fiancé to give me a detailed list of every sin they might have ever struggled with or engaged in. But, if they’re having big, ongoing struggles that, by their nature, are going to be impacting our marriage (both SSA and porn should fall into this category), then don’t I need to know what I’m getting into?? How can I truly consent, otherwise??

Marriage isn’t some magic cure-all. I imagine anyone who struggles with porn, SSA, lust, or whatever, has realized this. Getting married doesn’t make the struggle disappear. (And can sometimes make it worse.)
 
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