Are Traditional Catholics (TLM) politically conservative?

[Stylites]

So it’s okay to defund Mexico, but let’s forget about NYC where 89,000 babies are killed every year. Let’s keep funding Planned Parenthood because at least we’ve (temporarily) defunded Mexico City.

Sorry, I’m not asking for perfection. I’m asking for someone who sincerely wants to change things. I don’t see that in any politician, and that is why I will not vote. I don’t like choosing between Satan and the devil. You are free to do whatever you want.

Saving even one life doesn’t change a thing? Politicians are Satan or the devil? I’ll just move along to other threads where reasonable conversations are happening.

 

[Brooklyn]

Saving even one life doesn’t change a thing? Politicians are Satan or the devil? I’ll just move along to other threads where reasonable conversations are happening.

There are politicians, way too many, who absolutely do the work of the devil.

 

[kozlosap]

When is the last time you saw Republicans actually try to do something about abortion? When the HHS mandate came out against the Church, Speaker of the House John Boehner said he was going to fight against it in Congress. What action have you seen since then?

If I thought voting for one politican over another would actually do any good, there would be nothing that could stop me from voting. I have been voting for years for the politicians who said they were for the “right” issues, and yet our country keeps spinning down into more and more evil. It is only a matter of time before homosexual marriage is the law of the land, and it will be illegal to speak out against it. It doesn’t matter who I vote for. As long as our country keeps killing babies and legislating immorality, nothing is going to change.

Msgr. Philip Reilly, who is the founder of “Helpers of God’s Precious Infants”, said the war against abortion cannot be won in the legislature. The hearts and minds of the American people must be changed. Truer words were never spoken. Our salvation does not lie in politics or politicians.

Your quote is the most sane thing I’ve read about this battle in years! Without a change in the American perception of abortion, nothing will change. Once again, you cannot legislate morality or belief systems!

 

[Cat]

Can we please get back on topic, please? There are plenty of other places on CAF to debate whether or not voting helps stop abortion. Thank you.

I’m curious about the conservatism of the Traditional Catholics.

It seems that orthodox, practicing Catholics, including Traditional Catholics, are pretty much agreed on the social issues (anti-abortion, pro-life, anti-gay marriage, etc.) Whether or not their beliefs translate into votes seems to be questionable. It appears that Traditionalist Catholics have an objection to political involvement–is that a reasonable conclusion? Or is that just a few Traditional Catholics who are posting, while most Traditional Catholics vote as readily as any other U.S. citizen.

What’s the “norm?”

The war issue seems to be a tripper upper. It seems from this thread so far that Traditional Catholics tend to be anti-war/anti-intervention. How about when human rights are being violated; e.g., Nazis vs. Jews.

I’m also surprised to read at least one post that Traditional Catholics are not in favor of the U.S. alliance with Israel. What’s this all about?

 

[Stylites]

Your quote is the most sane thing I’ve read about this battle in years! Without a change in the American perception of abortion, nothing will change. Once again, you cannot legislate morality or belief systems!

Which is not to say that pro-life politicians cannot have a voice is helping to shape American perceptions, or that the Catholic Church asks the laity to legislate morality or beliefs, or that laws must be divorced from morality.

 

[Brooklyn]

Can we please get back on topic, please? There are plenty of other places on CAF to debate whether or not voting helps stop abortion. Thank you.

I’m curious about the conservatism of the Traditional Catholics.

It seems that orthodox, practicing Catholics, including Traditional Catholics, are pretty much agreed on the social issues (anti-abortion, pro-life, anti-gay marriage, etc.) Whether or not their beliefs translate into votes seems to be questionable. It appears that Traditionalist Catholics have an objection to political involvement–is that a reasonable conclusion? Or is that just a few Traditional Catholics who are posting, while most Traditional Catholics vote as readily as any other U.S. citizen.

What’s the “norm?”

The war issue seems to be a tripper upper. It seems from this thread so far that Traditional Catholics tend to be anti-war/anti-intervention. How about when human rights are being violated; e.g., Nazis vs. Jews.

I’m also surprised to read at least one post that Traditional Catholics are not in favor of the U.S. alliance with Israel. What’s this all about?

You want to stay on topic and you bring up Israel? That is most definitely a new thread.

I am a “traditional” Catholic, although I personally do not like that term. I am a practicing Catholic. I go to the traditional Mass, so I guess that is what makes me a “traditionalist.” Most “traditionalists” unabasedly support the church on social issues, e.g. abortion, homosexuality, etc. You would be very hard pressed to find a “traditional” Cathlic voting for Obama. One person said here that they are more liberal on social issues such as welfare. That would be unusual for a “traditionalist.” The “traditional Catholic” vote will never go for Obama or anyone like him. Even John McCain would get few traditional votes, and I’m not so sure Romney will do all that well.

That said, you will find a wide range of opinions about conservatives who will believe in voting at all or in political involvement, and I was expressing the point of view of those who feel that voting is, unfortunately, an exercise in futility. We think it is much better to just get down on our knees and pray. I quoted Msgr. Philip Reilly, who is not “traditional” as such but a very devout, holy priest, who feels that nothing good will ever come out of government or politics.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

Why are you putting such a blanket judgment on “traditional Catholics”, as if they never think for themselves but operate from a “knee jerk” reaction? Do you have some sort of inside information about “traditional Catholics?” From someone who is “traditionally” Catholic, I find that insulting.

Did you miss the part where I said “locally”? As it happens, we have some relatively prominent Republicans in this area who are also Catholic. MY experience (again I am speaking of the people I know locally) is that the traditional Catholics here are also staunch republicans as a result of this influence.

Based on other threads I’ve participated in around here, that isn’t too uncommon.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

“Adhere to the Republican party no matter what?” I sure hope that isn’t true. Many in the Republican party, for instance, while not supporting same sex marriage, do support “civil unions” for homosexuals. Then there are “closet liberals” within the party, like Laura Bush, who admitted, after her husband left office, that she supports abortion and same sex marriage. Her husband, who is the actual politican in the family, says he doesn’t support these things, but who knows?

I agree that it isn’t a good thing and I do what I can to encourage people to investigate each issue and each candidate. The bishops in this state have an organization that reports on bills in the state house and specific high profile national issues. I find their analysis very helpful as I form my opinions.

 

[Diana_Catherine]

Is it generally true of Traditional Catholics that they are politically-conservative? Are most of them leaning towards Republican rather than Democrat candidates these days?

Thanks!

Yes, I believe so but when it comes to the political parties democrat or republican, most are pretty disillusioned.

… I see the two parties - Republicans and Democrats - as basically two sides of the same coin. Nothing ever changes whichever party gets in. The Republicans keep claiming they are pro life and for smaller government, but abortion remains the law of the land. More than one trillion dollars has been added to the national debt since the “tea party” Republicans came to office in January 2011, those same Republicans who were going to stop all the big spending in Washington. We keep getting into more and more wars, and I don’t see either Republicans or Democrats standing up against that.

I have completely given up on politics. It is a false messiah. I don’t trust those who call themselves “conservatives” and I certainly want nothing to do with “liberals” who for the most part are pro abortion and anti traditional morality.

The only thing I can do is get down on my knees before the throne of God - that is the only place of real hope and change.

I agree with everything you said. I feel that every politician who runs for office makes all kinds of promises of things he will do and change and make better and then gets into office and either chooses not to do what he says or hits brick walls he didn’t know were there and can’t do what he says. True it is a false messiah. People think that government is there to solve their problems and it is not.

That said though, I do believe we should vote, in that our voices are at least heard. I like the Catholic voters guide.

As a new Catholic, this is really helpful for me.

From the Voter’s Guide

HOW NOT TO VOTE

:

This is good. I like the 5 non-negotiables too.

From the Catholic voters guide:

FIVE NON-NEGOTIABLES

1. Abortion

The Church teaches that, regarding a law permitting abortions, it is “never licit to obey it, or to take part in a propaganda campaign in favor of such a law, or to vote for it” (EV 73). Abortion is the intentional and direct killing of an innocent human being, and therefore it is a form of homicide.

The unborn child is always an innocent party, and no law may permit the taking of his life. Even when a child is conceived through rape or incest, the fault is not the child’s, who should not suffer death for others’ sins.

1. Euthanasia

Often disguised by the name “mercy killing,” euthanasia is also a form of homicide. No person has a right to take his own life, and no one has the right to take the life of any innocent person.

In euthanasia, the ill or elderly are killed, by action or omission, out of a misplaced sense of compassion, but true compassion cannot include intentionally doing something intrinsically evil to another person (cf. EV 73).

1. Embryonic Stem Cell Research

Human embryos are human beings. “Respect for the dignity of the human being excludes all experimental manipulation or exploitation of the human embryo” (CRF 4b).

Recent scientific advances show that often medical treatments that researchers hope to develop from experimentation on embryonic stem cells can be developed by using adult stem cells instead. Adult stem cells can be obtained without doing harm to the adults from whom they come. Thus there is no valid medical argument in favor of using embryonic stem cells. And even if there were benefits to be had from such experiments, they would not justify destroying innocent embryonic humans.

1. Human Cloning

“Attempts . . . for obtaining a human being without any connection with sexuality through ‘twin fission,’ cloning, or parthenogenesis are to be considered contrary to the moral law, since they are in opposition to the dignity both of human procreation and of the conjugal union” (RHL I:6).

Human cloning also involves abortion because the “rejected” or “unsuccessful” embryonic clones are destroyed, yet each clone is a human being.

1. Homosexual “Marriage”

True marriage is the union of one man and one woman. Legal recognition of any other union as “marriage” undermines true marriage, and legal recognition of homosexual unions actually does homosexual persons a disfavor by encouraging them to persist in what is an objectively immoral arrangement.

“When legislation in favor of the recognition of homosexual unions is proposed for the first time in a legislative assembly, the Catholic lawmaker has a moral duty to express his opposition clearly and publicly and to vote against it. To vote in favor of a law so harmful to the common good is gravely immoral” (UHP 10).

 

[FromTheAshes777]

Yes, I believe so but when it comes to the political parties democrat or republican, most are pretty disillusioned.

I agree with everything you said. I feel that every politician who runs for office makes all kinds of promises of things he will do and change and make better and then gets into office and either chooses not to do what he says or hits brick walls he didn’t know were there and can’t do what he says. True it is a false messiah. People think that government is there to solve their problems and it is not.

That said though, I do believe we should vote, in that our voices are at least heard. I like the Catholic voters guide.

This is good. I like the 5 non-negotiables too.

From the Catholic voters guide:

FIVE NON-NEGOTIABLES

1. Abortion

The Church teaches that, regarding a law permitting abortions, it is “never licit to obey it, or to take part in a propaganda campaign in favor of such a law, or to vote for it” (EV 73). Abortion is the intentional and direct killing of an innocent human being, and therefore it is a form of homicide.

The unborn child is always an innocent party, and no law may permit the taking of his life. Even when a child is conceived through rape or incest, the fault is not the child’s, who should not suffer death for others’ sins.

1. Euthanasia

Often disguised by the name “mercy killing,” euthanasia is also a form of homicide. No person has a right to take his own life, and no one has the right to take the life of any innocent person.

In euthanasia, the ill or elderly are killed, by action or omission, out of a misplaced sense of compassion, but true compassion cannot include intentionally doing something intrinsically evil to another person (cf. EV 73).

1. Embryonic Stem Cell Research

Human embryos are human beings. “Respect for the dignity of the human being excludes all experimental manipulation or exploitation of the human embryo” (CRF 4b).

Recent scientific advances show that often medical treatments that researchers hope to develop from experimentation on embryonic stem cells can be developed by using adult stem cells instead. Adult stem cells can be obtained without doing harm to the adults from whom they come. Thus there is no valid medical argument in favor of using embryonic stem cells. And even if there were benefits to be had from such experiments, they would not justify destroying innocent embryonic humans.

1. Human Cloning

“Attempts . . . for obtaining a human being without any connection with sexuality through ‘twin fission,’ cloning, or parthenogenesis are to be considered contrary to the moral law, since they are in opposition to the dignity both of human procreation and of the conjugal union” (RHL I:6).

Human cloning also involves abortion because the “rejected” or “unsuccessful” embryonic clones are destroyed, yet each clone is a human being.

1. Homosexual “Marriage”

True marriage is the union of one man and one woman. Legal recognition of any other union as “marriage” undermines true marriage, and legal recognition of homosexual unions actually does homosexual persons a disfavor by encouraging them to persist in what is an objectively immoral arrangement.

“When legislation in favor of the recognition of homosexual unions is proposed for the first time in a legislative assembly, the Catholic lawmaker has a moral duty to express his opposition clearly and publicly and to vote against it. To vote in favor of a law so harmful to the common good is gravely immoral” (UHP 10).

Best post in this entire thread. Thank you so much Diana!

 

[MartinMark]

Best post in this entire thread. Thank you so much Diana!

I agree…Diana’s posting is very good.

I need to put the Republican and Democrat parties aside.

Per my definition of “Catholic”, as long as we correctly follow the non-changing Ten Commandments, we’ll fall under my definition of “conservative”.

Thanks, Marty

 

[andrewstx]

There is no such thing as the “democrat” party, it is the democratic party.

Likewise there is no such thing as the “repub” party, it is the republican party.

I thought postings were to respectfull and charitable, I sense none of that here.

I am conservative on abortion and ss “marriage”, but on other issues like executions, being opposed to war in general, health care for those who cannot afford it, I am liberal.

I really don’t think that either of the major parties has it all right.

Still waiting for the Catholic party.

 

[Cat]

There is no such thing as the “democrat” party, it is the democratic party.

Likewise there is no such thing as the “repub” party, it is the republican party.

I thought postings were to respectfull and charitable, I sense none of that here.

I am conservative on abortion and ss “marriage”, but on other issues like executions, being opposed to war in general, health care for those who cannot afford it, I am liberal.

I really don’t think that either of the major parties has it all right.

Still waiting for the Catholic party.

I truly don’t think anyone was being disrespectful by using abbreviations that are in popular use. I grew up Democrat, and we all called ourselves Democrats, and I checked out several party websites, and the term Democrat was used as often, in fact more often, than Democratic.

As for the Catholic party–I don’t think it’s likely. There have been other attempts through the years at forming political parties based on religion, and they generally fall apart. (e.g., the Moral Majority, which I realize was a more of a PAC than a party).

My personal opinion about this is that we have what we have–two parties. We can choose to stay out of politics and vote for no one, and IMO, this simply gives evil more power. I realize that no candidates are 100% “right”, especially for Traditional Catholics who are looking for a very specific agenda, at least according to this thread. But the Catholic Church makes it clear that when no candidate is 100% Catholic, we must try to choose the lesser of two evils. We cannot vote for a pro-abortion candidate, but we can certainly vote for a pro-life candidate who is more likely to support any legislation that reduces abortion in the U.S. and around the world. Pro-life organizations like Right To Life publish voting records–please check these out and you will see in black and white whether or not the candidate you are examining has matched their vote to their promises.

I also want to say a few words to those who believe that the Republicans have done nothing to stop abortion in this country, and I realize that this is OT in my own thread, but I hope that it will be allowed because of the importance of the pro-life issues! I am frankly surprised and saddened to read that many Traditionalist Catholics disdain to vote and feel that the political parties don’t matter. I hope that’s just a few Traditionalist Catholics–the ones I know personally DO vote and DO get involved in politics, and are incredibly intelligent about what’s going on politically.

Please, please, check out National Right To Life. This political lobby organization publishes voting records of the candidates. Many MANY little laws are enacted every week by Congress at the federal level, and also at the state and local levels. Yes, none of these are the “Big One,” the Ultimate Law that will make all abortion illegal in the U.S. That isn’t likely to happen, especially in this current climate of conflict between politicians in the U.S., and with the Culture of Death more rapidly becoming the norm among the people.

But everyday and every week, little laws come up for debate and are voted on, and these little laws have an impact on how easy it is to obtain an abortion in YOUR neighborhood, or in other countries being aided by the United States. Many times these “little laws” do not get publicized at all. Often they are about mundane things like zoning laws, protest laws, inspection laws (which is what closed the abortion clinic in OUR city down forever!), etc.

It is so important that these laws get passed! Every baby’s and every parent’s life is important!

Generally speaking, the Republicans vote PRO-LIFE on these “little laws.” There are exceptions, and we have to be very careful to recognize that there ARE pro-life Democrats who consistently vote pro-life; this is true especially in the state of Louisiana, where Catholicism is practiced almost universally. But for the most part, the Democrats have a very sorry record on the “little laws,” and vote almost exclusively pro-abortion.

During the last Presidential election, National Right To Life published a very interesting article about the pro-life advances that had occurred under eight years of President Bush. It was quite impressive. Obviously abortion is still the law of the land. But under President Bush, many many roadblocks were put up to make it a lot harder for a woman to seek an abortion (e.g., parental notification laws, ultrasound laws, etc.). Those who say that he did nothing to stop abortion are, pardon my frankness, IGNORANT. But that ignorance can be corrected by some research and study. I challenge those who make the claim that Republicans do nothing to please do that research and study, and stop being ignorant.

Under President Obama’s watch, abortion is easier to obtain, not only for Americans, but for women in the countries aided by the U.S. He and the First Lady have created a climate of abortion tolerance among the citizens, and this is making it harder for pro-life politicians at the federal, state, and local levels to gain popular support for their pro-life votes. Often, these politicians vote pro-life anyway, and pay the price when they lose their elections due to media criticism that resonates among a pro-abortion populace.

Please, please don’t scoff at these “little laws” and claim that they don’t matter. Yes, they DO! They often make a big impact locally. At any rate, the Lord Jesus does not scoff at little acts of charity, but actually said that anyone who gives a cup of water in His Name will receive a reward. We can’t just sit back and do nothing and wait for the glorious day when someday, abortion will no longer be legal in the U.S. Instead, we need to be busy in the little things, and that means voting for candidates that WILL vote pro-life on most if not all of these pieces of legislation.

 

[Seamus_L]

I’m a TLM’er, and I describe myself as a Constitutionalist, and I’ve been called a Fascist and a Communist in the same day. Fascist for voicing my oppostion to socialism, abortion, the homosexual agenda, quota hirings, and for supporting gun ownership and the tightening of immigration controls. Communist for opposing American militarism, NATO, and for calling for the abolition of the Department of Homeland Security.

 

[CesarAugustus]

Cat, some of us aren’t from the USA.

Over here things are not simple. Is almost impossible to vote correctly. Various parties have despicable things.

Blessings!

 

[Diana_Catherine]

I truly don’t think anyone was being disrespectful by using abbreviations that are in popular use. I grew up Democrat, and we all called ourselves Democrats, and I checked out several party websites, and the term Democrat was used as often, in fact more often, than Democratic.

As for the Catholic party–I don’t think it’s likely. There have been other attempts through the years at forming political parties based on religion, and they generally fall apart. (e.g., the Moral Majority, which I realize was a more of a PAC than a party).

My personal opinion about this is that we have what we have–two parties. We can choose to stay out of politics and vote for no one, and IMO, this simply gives evil more power. I realize that no candidates are 100% “right”, especially for Traditional Catholics who are looking for a very specific agenda, at least according to this thread. But the Catholic Church makes it clear that when no candidate is 100% Catholic, we must try to choose the lesser of two evils. We cannot vote for a pro-abortion candidate, but we can certainly vote for a pro-life candidate who is more likely to support any legislation that reduces abortion in the U.S. and around the world. Pro-life organizations like Right To Life publish voting records–please check these out and you will see in black and white whether or not the candidate you are examining has matched their vote to their promises.

I also want to say a few words to those who believe that the Republicans have done nothing to stop abortion in this country, and I realize that this is OT in my own thread, but I hope that it will be allowed because of the importance of the pro-life issues! I am frankly surprised and saddened to read that many Traditionalist Catholics disdain to vote and feel that the political parties don’t matter. I hope that’s just a few Traditionalist Catholics–the ones I know personally DO vote and DO get involved in politics, and are incredibly intelligent about what’s going on politically.

Please, please, check out National Right To Life. This political lobby organization publishes voting records of the candidates. Many MANY little laws are enacted every week by Congress at the federal level, and also at the state and local levels. Yes, none of these are the “Big One,” the Ultimate Law that will make all abortion illegal in the U.S. That isn’t likely to happen, especially in this current climate of conflict between politicians in the U.S., and with the Culture of Death more rapidly becoming the norm among the people.

But everyday and every week, little laws come up for debate and are voted on, and these little laws have an impact on how easy it is to obtain an abortion in YOUR neighborhood, or in other countries being aided by the United States. Many times these “little laws” do not get publicized at all. Often they are about mundane things like zoning laws, protest laws, inspection laws (which is what closed the abortion clinic in OUR city down forever!), etc.

It is so important that these laws get passed! Every baby’s and every parent’s life is important!

Generally speaking, the Republicans vote PRO-LIFE on these “little laws.” There are exceptions, and we have to be very careful to recognize that there ARE pro-life Democrats who consistently vote pro-life; this is true especially in the state of Louisiana, where Catholicism is practiced almost universally. But for the most part, the Democrats have a very sorry record on the “little laws,” and vote almost exclusively pro-abortion.

During the last Presidential election, National Right To Life published a very interesting article about the pro-life advances that had occurred under eight years of President Bush. It was quite impressive. Obviously abortion is still the law of the land. But under President Bush, many many roadblocks were put up to make it a lot harder for a woman to seek an abortion (e.g., parental notification laws, ultrasound laws, etc.). Those who say that he did nothing to stop abortion are, pardon my frankness, IGNORANT. But that ignorance can be corrected by some research and study. I challenge those who make the claim that Republicans do nothing to please do that research and study, and stop being ignorant.

Under President Obama’s watch, abortion is easier to obtain, not only for Americans, but for women in the countries aided by the U.S. He and the First Lady have created a climate of abortion tolerance among the citizens, and this is making it harder for pro-life politicians at the federal, state, and local levels to gain popular support for their pro-life votes. Often, these politicians vote pro-life anyway, and pay the price when they lose their elections due to media criticism that resonates among a pro-abortion populace.

Please, please don’t scoff at these “little laws” and claim that they don’t matter. Yes, they DO! They often make a big impact locally. At any rate, the Lord Jesus does not scoff at little acts of charity, but actually said that anyone who gives a cup of water in His Name will receive a reward. We can’t just sit back and do nothing and wait for the glorious day when someday, abortion will no longer be legal in the U.S. Instead, we need to be busy in the little things, and that means voting for candidates that WILL vote pro-life on most if not all of these pieces of legislation.

I like that. I agree. We need to vote and we need to know where the candidates stand. I think the issue of not wanting to vote comes from many Catholics and non-Catholics alike and not just Traditional Catholics. This topic was brought up on Catholic Answers radio just the other day. It seems many people are disappointed with politics and talk about not voting but we need to vote, like you said, little things matter.

 

[Cat]

Cat, some of us aren’t from the USA.

Over here things are not simple. Is almost impossible to vote correctly. Various parties have despicable things.

Blessings!

Yes, I appreciate that. I was speaking to U.S. citizens. I thought I had made it clear in my long post that I was speaking to Americans, as I referred several times to “America.”

And our parties have their failures as well, and many of the candidates present a mixed bag, and we are often forced to select the candidate who is going to do less harm to the various “non-negotiable” Christian issues.

But IMO, it is better to select a less-harmful candidate than to give the other candidate an easy win and free reign to do as he/she pleases.

 

[Cat]

I like that. I agree. We need to vote and we need to know where the candidates stand. I think the issue of not wanting to vote comes from many Catholics and non-Catholics alike and not just Traditional Catholics. This topic was brought up on Catholic Answers radio just the other day. It seems many people are disappointed with politics and talk about not voting but we need to vote, like you said, little things matter.

Yes, you’re right, it is not just the traditional Catholics, but all Christians who sometimes have trouble reconciling voting for a candidate who is not stellar.

But we have to be careful that by abstaining from the vote, that we do not give away the position to the candidate who speaks for evil and death.

 

[Holly3278]

I consider myself to be a traditional Catholic but I have never gone to a traditional Latin Mass. I would like to go to one sometime but I have not yet gone to one.

That said, I am definitely politically conservative. I am 100% pro-life which means from conception to natural death. I am against the death penalty, against abortion, against embryonic stem cell research, and against unjust war. I am also against “gay marriage” and other “gay rights”. I used to be a registered Democrat but I would never vote Democrat anymore. I can’t stand how liberal the Democrat party has become. That said, I will vote Republican this year. I don’t agree with everything about the Republican party but I agree more with the Republican party than I do the Democrat party. I won’t vote Independent because I feel that doing so would be wasting my vote.

 

[Cristiano]

I would consider myself very liberal (libertarian is probably a better word in today’s political lingo); however, I have been called a Catholic Taliban and probably people would label me as a conservative. I do not like the idea of progress without a specific goal and I do not like change unless there is a reasonably positive outcome. I simply do not accept anything that goes against the Teachings of the Church and I do not accept lack of intellectual honesty. Because of these two fundamental constraints of mine I cannot tolerate any of the present political parties. I can deal with ignorance and stupidity especially because I do not know everything and I have my very special stupid moments too.