Are transgendered people allowed to get married or be in relationships?

[thistle]

Well I was questioning with or without surgery.

I’m assuming if it is possible, then it would only be after surgery because that would only be the real way to consume the marriage. Obviously a gay couple wouldn’t be able to successfully consume their marriage, but with a sex change surgery, I guess they would?

Not sure.

It makes no difference how a person feels, thinks, what they say or do, and what drugs they take or operations they have. You are what you are biologically born. Nothing changes your gender.

 

[PumpkinSeed]

It makes no difference how a person feels, thinks, what they say or do, and what drugs they take or operations they have. You are what you are biologically born. Nothing changes your gender.

I agree with you, I was just wondering if the Church would allow them to get married.

After they have a sex change, are they able to be recognized as the new gender under the law?

 

[thistle]

I agree with you, I was just wondering if the Church would allow them to get married.

After they have a sex change, are they able to be recognized as the new gender under the law?

Why would the Church allow such a marriage?
There is no new gender. The gender remains the same. Cutting off a man’s genitals does not make him a woman. It simply makes him a mutilated man.
The gender of a person never changes. You are what you biologically are for your entire life.

 

[Dan_Grelinger]

After they have a sex change, are they able to be recognized as the new gender under the law?

The answer to your question depends on what law you refer to.

Fallible human law? Possibly, depending on jurisdiction and the whims of the people.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

I agree with you, I was just wondering if the Church would allow them to get married.

After they have a sex change, are they able to be recognized as the new gender under the law?

If they pretend to be what they aren’t, I suppose the Church wouldn’t know. "Oh what a tangled web we weave… "

 

[1ke]

If they pretend to be what they aren’t, I suppose the Church wouldn’t know. "Oh what a tangled web we weave… "

Well, the Church would know because their sacramental records would not match up.

 

[PumpkinSeed]

Well, the Church would know because their sacramental records would not match up.

Well most transgenders like to be refereed to as their ‘changed’ gender. Some of them even get mad if you refer to them as the gender they were born rather than the gender that they feel.

 

[1ke]

Well most transgenders like to be refereed to as their ‘changed’ gender. Some of them even get mad if you refer to them as the gender they were born rather than the gender that they feel.

Which has no bearing on my statement regarding their sacramental records.

 

[bri89]

I don’t know the answer, but I wonder what is the fate of those people who, since their earliest years, identify mostly as the opposite sex. I think this often life-long identification is rooted in something much deeper than mere feelings. It strikes me as palpably true that a biological male can be mentally and spiritually feminine, notwithstanding his anatomy, and likewise for women. I hope someone would address this problem without attributing it to our fallen natures.

 

[PumpkinSeed]

I don’t know the answer, but I wonder what is the fate of those people who, since their earliest years, identify mostly as the opposite sex. I think this often life-long identification is rooted in something much deeper than mere feelings. It strikes me as palpably true that a biological male can be mentally and spiritually feminine, notwithstanding his anatomy, and likewise for women. I hope someone would address this problem without attributing it to our fallen natures.

There never has been and never will be a transgender Pope, so no, its not palpably true. Unless he has said otherwise in which I would like to see a reference.

In reply to the first part of your post, I saw a documentary of children who say they are male or female from what they were born. So transgenders usually do feel that they have always ‘been that way’.

 

[vera_dicere]

While I feel sorry for those suffering from this disorder, I don’t think its acceptable for a pre/post op transgendered individual to marry someone who is the same gender as their birth gender.

It goes to genetics, male XY and female XX, a male wanting to be a woman will still have an XY structure, and no ammount of hormones or surgery will change that. What they really need is solid mental health intervention.

Yes, there are those with genetic mishaps, like XXX, XO, XXY, et cetera, but those people usually have other health issues which prevent marriage due to intellectual special needs. Not always, but generally. And most are sterile with malformed genetials that’d probably be unable to engage in the marital act, again, not always, but generally.

So really, transgendered people, if reassigned to the gender they think they are, are still their gender of birth. Feelings don’t make you somethign else. I can feel that I’m a car, and get wheels stitched onto my limbs, but that doesn’t make me a car!

 

[1ke]

I hope someone would address this problem without attributing it to our fallen natures.

That is the root of the disordered desires, the ones we are discussing and ALL disordered appetites, desires, and actions.

 

[Dan_Grelinger]

It strikes me as palpably true that a biological male can be mentally and spiritually feminine, notwithstanding his anatomy, and likewise for women.

“Spiritually feminine”? How can that be known?

I hope someone would address this problem without attributing it to our fallen natures.

What do you mean by addressing this problem? Helping you understand it?

In a perfect world (Eden), the physical world worked to the total benefit of mankind. There were no defects. In the world in which we live in, it will never be so. There is disease, which at its simplist level just means that WE don’t work right. We get sick, even our own bodies (and minds) turn on us and attack us; our own antibodies turn against us and cause autoimmune and degenerative diseases. Our own cells turn against us and grow uncontrollably until the rest of the body is consumed. Our own brains malfunction and introduce all kinds of mental illnesses.

When those things happen, when things don’t work as it is obvious they are supposed to, no one questions that it is a defect of this fallen world. In the case of homosexuality, when things ‘don’t match up like they are supposed to’, it is the same. Things are simply NOT working as designed. Why? Because in this world, what can go wrong, will go wrong. It is simply a state of this world. And there are two sad facts about when things go wrong; 1. People suffer. 2. There are good ways to react to the wrong in attempts to make the best of it, and bad ways that only bring more suffering.

 

[1ke]

There never has been and never will be a transgender Pope, so no, its not palpably true. Unless he has said otherwise in which I would like to see a reference.

HUH?

The word palpably, in this context, means perceptible.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

While I feel sorry for those suffering from this disorder, I don’t think its acceptable for a pre/post op transgendered individual to marry someone who is the same gender as their birth gender.

It goes to genetics, male XY and female XX, a male wanting to be a woman will still have an XY structure, and no ammount of hormones or surgery will change that. What they really need is solid mental health intervention.

Yes, there are those with genetic mishaps, like XXX, XO, XXY, et cetera, but those people usually have other health issues which prevent marriage due to intellectual special needs. Not always, but generally. And most are sterile with malformed genetials that’d probably be unable to engage in the marital act, again, not always, but generally.

So really, transgendered people, if reassigned to the gender they think they are, are still their gender of birth. Feelings don’t make you somethign else. I can feel that I’m a car, and get wheels stitched onto my limbs, but that doesn’t make me a car!

And those who are born phenotypically female while genotypical male?

That is the root of the disordered desires, the ones we are discussing and ALL disordered appetites, desires, and actions.

Actually our fallen nature is responsible for all sorts of things including physical defects. For all we know transgendered people may have experienced in the womb brain development of the wrong sex

 

[akela135]

I’ve always been confused as to how to handle this issue when it comes to people I know and what to say or not say.

I have a friend who is biologically a man but who considers himself a woman and dresses like one and has a girl name he goes by. He considers himself a lesbian because he likes women, however he has never had surgery so he is still fully intact as a male. He is always open with his female dates about this situation so they are aware that he biologically male before he dates them. So when he tells me he has met a nice lesbian girl and they are going to go on a date together I never know what to say. I mean he’s a man taking a woman on a date, however he is taking her on a date dressing and refering to himself as a woman. He knows I’m Catholic and what the church teaches about SSA as his last roommate was a non practicing Catholic, but is it really SSA if he is a man who likes women? The whole thing puts me in a confusing grey issue as to what I should do or say about it.

 

[OraLabora]

If they pretend to be what they aren’t, I suppose the Church wouldn’t know. "Oh what a tangled web we weave… "

I think a little sensitivity is in order. I don’t think by any stretch these people are “pretending” at all. For most it is a real cross to bear and there’s lots of suffering over it. Most are just trying to come to terms with confused gender identity and live according to their perceived gender.

Gender dysphoria is a very real disorder. One can debate whether sex-reassignment surgery is helpful for these cases; even in the medical community that’s not clear-cut, there remains some controversy on the issue. However, one must be careful to distinguish between sin and disorder. Disorders can lead one to sin, but the disorder itself is not “chosen”.

And this is quite apart from known medical and genetic causes that result in varying degrees of intersex, including genetic males that are phenotypically female due to androgen insensitivity.

It is far too complicated a situation, and causes far too much suffering, for me to feel comfortable reducing it to quips and one-liners.

I’m assuming that the Church, prudently, refuses to publicly pronounce herself on the matter given the fact that it is an essentially incurable disorder and the best course of treatment is not clear. On the one hand the outcome of sex-reassignment is not universally good, on the other hand, forcing people to cover up and suppress their disorder can lead to severe depression and suicide.

Given that the possible outcome can and has been fatal (for some), I would suggest that more charitable language than “pretend” would be in order.

 

[nickybr38]

I don’t know the answer, but I wonder what is the fate of those people who, since their earliest years, identify mostly as the opposite sex. I think this often life-long identification is rooted in something much deeper than mere feelings. It strikes me as palpably true that a biological male can be mentally and spiritually feminine, notwithstanding his anatomy, and likewise for women. I hope someone would address this problem without attributing it to our fallen natures.

It’s a deep seated psychological issue. There was a show on Catholic Answers regarding this issue once. The guest speaker explained that such children have problems going on in the home that lead them to identify with the wrong gender.

Your SEX can never be changed. It is gender confusion that we’re talking about here, btw.

 

[livingwordunity]

It’s a deep seated psychological issue. There was a show on Catholic Answers regarding this issue once. The guest speaker explained that such children have problems going on in the home that lead them to identify with the wrong gender.

Your SEX can never be changed. It is gender confusion that we’re talking about here, btw.

Confusion is caused by lies, and Satan is the father of lies.

 

[PumpkinSeed]

I’ve always been confused as to how to handle this issue when it comes to people I know and what to say or not say.

I have a friend who is biologically a man but who considers himself a woman and dresses like one and has a girl name he goes by. He considers himself a lesbian because he likes women, however he has never had surgery so he is still fully intact as a male. He is always open with his female dates about this situation so they are aware that he biologically male before he dates them. So when he tells me he has met a nice lesbian girl and they are going to go on a date together I never know what to say. I mean he’s a man taking a woman on a date, however he is taking her on a date dressing and refering to himself as a woman. He knows I’m Catholic and what the church teaches about SSA as his last roommate was a non practicing Catholic, but is it really SSA if he is a man who likes women? The whole thing puts me in a confusing grey issue as to what I should do or say about it.

Because he physically feels like a female, but he mentally likes girls, which would make him a lesbian.

Or, just a straight man.