Are we all a little too hypocritical and worldly?

[farronwolf]

I will start by saying, yes I am guilty of both at times.

With all that is going on in our countries right now, and with many people having to much more free time on their hands due to shelter in place, made me ponder a bit about things. Exceptions to this are the first responders and medical personnel, ya’ll aren’t getting any breaks. I am still working, since it is tax season, we are just keeping our door locked and my only employee right now is my wife. Kind of hard to social distance from her.

Most will agree that people generally don’t look fondly on our government, regardless of party. For many reason, we tend to not like the choices they have made for us as a country.

Now all the sudden the government is the savior and is going to send out “free” money to most everyone, and people are tripping over themselves trying to figure out how they can get a piece of the pie. Whether or not they are being affected by this corona thing or not, folks seem to want to get all they can from the gov. they ordinarily seem to hate so much.

I have probably between 800 and 900 clients, and whether or not they are retired and drawing social security, or have a business with millions of dollars in the bank, the consensus is they want their share.

Isn’t this a bit hypocritical on our part as a people?

Next is the fact that many haven’t put the resources back to deal with a situation like this without looking to someone else to get them through it.

Everyone has to have cell phones, houses bigger than their needs are, more cars than they really need, the newest and latest of this and that, instead of saving money for the rainy day. Heck, we all got letters from the Bishop saying please find a way to continue to give to the Church because they are running out of money. Shouldn’t they have budgeted properly and kept operating funds set back to cover several months worth of expense in the event something like this happens?

Over the past century, in America at least, folks have changed from the mindset of saving for the rainy day to, I want it all now and will worry about the future later.

Do we really need all the things we have, do we really use them all? Could we have made better use of the money spent on X if we had taken the time to really think about the purchase.

We personally are probably spending less money since we can’t really eat out. We generally cook at home and eat at the office for lunch, but on Friday and Saturday evenings we typically go out to eat with a group of friends. Cutting out those to meals probably adds $100 a week to the available funds.

How much better off would everyone be if they had simply cut the number of meals they eat out in half over the course of a year?

Just some of the thoughts that have come up. Maybe the responses on this will make me change my mind about this. Just curious what others thought are.

 

[JulianN]

Whether or not they are being affected by this corona thing or not, folks seem to want to get all they can from the gov. they ordinarily seem to hate so much.

I have probably between 800 and 900 clients, and whether or not they are retired and drawing social security, or have a business with millions of dollars in the bank, the consensus is they want their share.

I think part of the thinking is that this is why we pay taxes. So it’s not a handout but a return on investment.

That said, I do think the aid should be restricted to those who are actually affected. I’m still employed and so is my husband, so our $1200 payments are going to charity.

 

[farronwolf]

Taxes are not an investment. Purchasing an asset or ownership in a company is an investment.

When the government is borrowing the money (don’t forget that we were already running a trillion dollar deficit this year), the additional 2 trillion in this spending bill isn’t our tax money it is our grand and great grand children’s money. That is if we ever get a gov. who has any desire to start paying off the debt. Until then it is just more borrowed money, not tax dollars.

I agree that it should just be used for those affected. We should have ramped up the unemployment benefits and mandated that health insurance companies kept coverage for 60 days regardless of if they received payments. Insurance companies could be made whole and folks wouldn’t have to worry about being covered.

We will simply put the money in savings for the time being. Don’t need it either.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

Now all the sudden the government is the savior

LOL Not according to the MSM

 

[JimG]

Over the past century, in America at least, folks have changed from the mindset of saving for the rainy day to, I want it all now and will worry about the future later.

Yes, that’s pretty much it. I have heard that about 70% of people live from paycheck to paycheck. Saving is a necessary but nearly forgotten requirement. We are now finding out the hard way that living below your means is more sustainable than living above your means,

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I have probably between 800 and 900 clients, and whether or not they are retired and drawing social security, or have a business with millions of dollars in the bank, the consensus is they want their share.

Isn’t this a bit hypocritical on our part as a people?

They’re your clients and they pay you. It’s a little bit wrong of you to be criticizing them on a forum for wanting some money, while you are taking their money in return for your services.

I don’t expect to be getting any sort of $1200 payment and I’m likely to give it to charity/ the church/ less well off family members etc if one did show up. I’m fortunate to be employed myself so I don’t need that money. Maybe someone else does. Who am I to judge?

I also haven’t seen one single person change their opinion about the government based on stimulus checks.

 

[JulianN]

Taxes are not an investment. Purchasing an asset or ownership in a company is an investment.

I understand that. I was just pointing out the thought process of some people who are looking for “their share.”

 

[Aquinas11]

Now all the sudden the government is the savior and is going to send out “free” money to most everyone

All of a sudden? Not sure where you’ve been but tens of millions rely on governemtn as their savior (SS, medicare, food stamps, etc)

Whether or not they are being affected by this corona thing or not, folks seem to want to get all they can from the gov. they ordinarily seem to hate so much.

why publicly shame someone affected by corona for wanting help?

I have probably between 800 and 900 clients, and whether or not they are retired and drawing social security, or have a business with millions of dollars in the bank, the consensus is they want their share.

Isn’t this a bit hypocritical on our part as a people?

what’s hypocritical is relying on a clientele for one’s welfare while simultaneously publicly throwing them under the bus

Next is the fact that many haven’t put the resources back to deal with a situation like this without looking to someone else to get them through it.

Everyone has to have cell phones, houses bigger than their needs are, more cars than they really need, the newest and latest of this and that, instead of saving money for the rainy day. Heck, we all got letters from the Bishop saying please find a way to continue to give to the Church because they are running out of money. Shouldn’t they have budgeted properly and kept operating funds set back to cover several months worth of expense in the event something like this happens?

yes but with fed endlessly printing money, which causes massive inflation, this incentivizes spending since if you don’t spend your money it loses its value

 

[farronwolf]

All of a sudden? Not sure where you’ve been but tens of millions rely on governemtn as their savior (SS, medicare, food stamps, etc)

why publicly shame someone affected by corona for wanting help?

what’s hypocritical is relying on a clientele for one’s welfare while simultaneously publicly throwing them under the bus

yes but with fed endlessly printing money, which causes massive inflation, this incentivizes spending since if you don’t spend your money it loses its value

Yes, there are people who regularly rely on the gov. for a handout. Now there just seem to be many more who whether or not they need it are in line, many of whom dislike gov. handouts.

I am not publicly shaming anyone. “Whether or not”, you seem to have overlooked the or not portion of my statement. So are you publicly shaming folks who got handouts before the corona thing?

Don’t really think that running a business and having customer willingly come to you is welfare. It’s called business, the way capitalism is supposed to work. It is how I make a living.

Don’t worry I spend money, just won’t spend the money if and when the gov. sends me some. Makes no sense to spend money just cause you get it and have to make up a reason to get rid of it.

 

[1ke]

Most will agree that people generally don’t look fondly on our government, regardless of party.

No, I don’t think I agree with that. Government serves and essential function. Government, being made up of people, is imperfect. So there are specific aspects of the government that I disagree with, there are parts that could be more efficient, there are programs that could be run better. But no I don’t agree with the sentiment that you suggest.

Now all the sudden the government is the savior and is going to send out “free” money to most everyone,

Again, I disagree with your framing of this. I don’t think the government is the savior, but I do think that federal monetary policy is going to play in important role in preventing the economy and the people who make up the economy from going off the cliff.

people are tripping over themselves trying to figure out how they can get a piece of the pie.

There isn’t much to figure out, if you filed taxes you get the rebate. If you are on Social Security and did not file taxes, you still get a rebate.

You don’t do anything, it’s automatic. Unless of course you’ve moved or didn’t set up automatic deposit, or you didn’t file taxes, then you have to take a step.

Whether or not they are being affected by this corona thing or not,

That isn’t the purpose of the stimulus money, the purpose of the stimulus money it’s a simulate the economy. The economy as a whole is being impacted, and the purpose of this is not to give money to people who have coronavirus or only people who are “impacted”. We are all impacted.

There are separate provisions related to employment and unemployment. And still others for small businesses.

Isn’t this a bit hypocritical on our part as a people?

I don’t think so. But then I’m not coming from the position that most people don’t want government.

 

[farronwolf]

Got to disagree with some of this.

A single portion of the stimulus is to send money to individuals. There are multiple other portions. The PPP, the EIDL, the debt relief, and bridge loans are others that businesses are jumping on the band wagon for. These are much bigger programs than the individual stimulus portion. One of the reasons the lenders and SBA are completely overrun and overwhelmed with request for this money. Today 2 trillion dollars was loaned out on the PPP I believe.

Going back to the 1200 stimulus checks. They are not the same type of stimulus like was given out in 2008 by Bush. The economy was still fully functional back then, we were just in a recession. The economy is not fully functional now. It is pretty hard to go out and spend money when a ton of businesses are closed.

The fed gov. pumping and additional 2 trillion dollars into the economy is not economic or monetary policy. Feds lowering interest rates or raising them is a policy measure. If pumping money the gov. doesn’t have into the economy makes up policy, then running federal deficits every year could be considered good economic policy, but it certainly is not.

So if you are coming from the position that most people don’t want government, but yet they want the government money, seems you agree that it is kind of hypocritical. Maybe I am wrong on that.

 

[farronwolf]

They’re your clients and they pay you. It’s a little bit wrong of you to be criticizing them on a forum for wanting some money, while you are taking their money in return for your services.

So, I shouldn’t be charging for my services? Or maybe I shouldn’t take any of the money they get from the gov. for them to pay my bill?

Not following this line of thought.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

They’re your customers. You should show them some respect and not be criticizing them behind their backs on a public forum. I know people need to vent about their customers sometimes in private, like to their own family or to one of their colleagues at work, but to strangers on the Internet? Not cool.

Also, if you don’t approve of how they are getting their money, or the fact that they want money, then you shouldn’t be taking money from them.

 

[farronwolf]

I am just using my customers as examples. This is taking place nationwide.

And I have told some of them, especially the ones who are unaffected by this that I didn’t think it was a good idea to get what they think will be “free” money.

My taking money for my services has nothing to do with them wanting money.

If I didn’t approve of them wanting the money and charged them for what I provided them to help get it, you might have a point, but I am not charging anything extra for what I have to do for them during this process.

 

[1ke]

A single portion of the stimulus is to send money to individuals. There are multiple other portions.

Yes, I said that.

These are much bigger programs than the individual stimulus portion. One of the reasons the lenders and SBA are completely overrun and overwhelmed with request for this money. Today 2 trillion dollars was loaned out on the PPP I believe.

The PPP program is $350B total. And the entire bill is $2.2T. So, $2T did not get processed today.

Our parish will be applying for PPP ASAP.

 

[farronwolf]

Yes, 2 billion was processed today.

Billions, trillions, too many commas and zeros.

 

[phil19034]

That said, I do think the aid should be restricted to those who are actually affected. I’m still employed and so is my husband, so our $1200 payments are going to charity.

One suggestion:

In addition to charities, buy gift cards from SMALL businesses.

That way the small business has money now to pay bills & employees.

Restaurants for example are all running the risk of not being able to reopen after this virus. Every gift card purchased now helps them BIG TIME!

 

[farronwolf]

So, most of the posts have been focused on the stimulus money.

No one has any comments on how worldly we are as a society, and the fact many don’t plan for hard times like this.

Jim, you are right. Heard some figures a while back that 40% of the people can’t handle an unexpected $400 bill. Odd in the worlds richest society.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Aside from the stimulus money point, it seems like you’re just seeking people to agree with you in some blanket condemnation of society and of people who don’t prepare for calamity.

Doesn’t seem like a very kind topic for a Catholic forum. I’m not really interested in piling on people who are having problems, whatever the reason for it.

Over and out.

 

[farronwolf]

I am not trying to pile on people who are having problems.

If we as a society have done things in our past which put us in a situation where we have no safety net, is this not a good time to talk about it.

When things are all peachy, folks really don’t focus on planning for hard times. Would this not be a time for folks to express what can be done in the future to help people put a strategy together.

After all, federal and state governments didn’t have a plan in place for having gear in an event like this. The cost wasn’t worth it apparently, but the end result will be that it will cost them many, many multiples of what the initial cost would have been.