Are We, as Christians, Selfish?

[Singinbeauty]

I am speaking more to those of us living in the US (I don’t know much about living conditions for those in other countries but feel free to jump on in with your thoughts ) and ‘we’ would be ALL Christians…

In the US it is still socially acceptable to be christian. You don’t have fear to being killed for your beliefs and yes, while there are some times when you can get ridiculed for your beliefs by individuals, you don’t have to fear torture by the government nor do you have to fear for your families lives for it. So why is it that there aren’t christians flooding the streets in every state and square mile taking care of our broken world. In the time of Christ and soon after they were working with and for the broken and lost (every one of them) even though they faced danger and death.

I do think we need to feel a sense of guilt for our big houses and fancy cars when there are those out there who scrap together $5 just to feed the family for the week. We get caught up in our bible studies, getting together to discuss what God wants but then we turn around and lose our sights in kids soccer games and working 120 hours a week to afford the nice car and house. Didn’t Christ tell the rich man to give up all his possessions to follow Him?

Have we, as Christians, lost sight of what it is ALL really about? I live in a mobile home in the ‘ghetto’ of Washington State but I am really beginning to see how much I actually have. With my leaky roof and mold ridden ceiling I still see that I have a roof over my head and warmth in the winter. I was watching ‘Extreme Makeover - Home Addition’ tonight about a family who gave up safety to move to a dangerous community to help turn the war zone (as it was nicknamed) into something where you can walk down the street and “not fear that a pop would make you wonder if it was your kid lying in the street” as one woman put it.

The church I attend has what is called ‘Compassion Month’ where we go out into the community and help those in need with whatever they need help with. But why do we have to have something designated to remind us of what we need to do?

And I am not looking to hear about what your church does, I know that our churches do things to help communities. What I am looking for is the congregations and what we, as Christians, are doing. We have been blessed so much (even with leaky roofs ) why do we not practice what Christ said and give up all to follow Him? I count myself in this.

I don’t think we clothe, feed, or give water to enough people because if we did this then there would be none. We don’t band together to help even fellow Christians in our own congregations. People walk in and out of our churches every day who could use even basic help. What do we do to better recognize this? We don’t need more charities, we just need to GO…

Thoughts?

 

[ALLFORHIM]

I am speaking more to those of us living in the US (I don’t know much about living conditions for those in other countries but feel free to jump on in with your thoughts ) and ‘we’ would be ALL Christians…

In the US it is still socially acceptable to be christian. You don’t have fear to being killed for your beliefs and yes, while there are some times when you can get ridiculed for your beliefs by individuals, you don’t have to fear torture by the government nor do you have to fear for your families lives for it. So why is it that there aren’t christians flooding the streets in every state and square mile taking care of our broken world. In the time of Christ and soon after they were working with and for the broken and lost (every one of them) even though they faced danger and death.

I do think we need to feel a sense of guilt for our big houses and fancy cars when there are those out there who scrap together $5 just to feed the family for the week. We get caught up in our bible studies, getting together to discuss what God wants but then we turn around and lose our sights in kids soccer games and working 120 hours a week to afford the nice car and house. Didn’t Christ tell the rich man to give up all his possessions to follow Him?

Have we, as Christians, lost sight of what it is ALL really about? I live in a mobile home in the ‘ghetto’ of Washington State but I am really beginning to see how much I actually have. With my leaky roof and mold ridden ceiling I still see that I have a roof over my head and warmth in the winter. I was watching ‘Extreme Makeover - Home Addition’ tonight about a family who gave up safety to move to a dangerous community to help turn the war zone (as it was nicknamed) into something where you can walk down the street and “not fear that a pop would make you wonder if it was your kid lying in the street” as one woman put it.

The church I attend has what is called ‘Compassion Month’ where we go out into the community and help those in need with whatever they need help with. But why do we have to have something designated to remind us of what we need to do?

And I am not looking to hear about what your church does, I know that our churches do things to help communities. What I am looking for is the congregations and what we, as Christians, are doing. We have been blessed so much (even with leaky roofs ) why do we not practice what Christ said and give up all to follow Him? I count myself in this.

I don’t think we clothe, feed, or give water to enough people because if we did this then there would be none. We don’t band together to help even fellow Christians in our own congregations. People walk in and out of our churches every day who could use even basic help. What do we do to better recognize this? We don’t need more charities, we just need to GO…

Thoughts?

You are SOOOOOOOO dead on!!! I live comfortably(not rich) my car is a lemon, but it works. I run a homeless ministry in one of the richest counties in the country(yes even wealthy areas have homeless)
When I do something so mundane like take a shower–I think these people cant even do that!!! Our program is pretty good at keeping women and their children safe and fed and sheltered until we find them housing, but these people still have it rough. The program I work with is a tough one to be in.

People are willing to throw money at issues(which is great because is certainly needed)but time is more valuable in reaching and touching the lives of the homeless. I am so much more blessed(as are my children)that we have the opportunity to give our time and help people in need. Not just physical needs either. Individual people in my congregation not just show the love of Christ but teach them who Christ is and that they can have Christ in their lives!!AMEN.
Yesterday was bring a friend day at our church. I walked in and saw one of the homeless families . Apparently one of my volunteers invited them to church. I was so happy because I knew they were going to hear the gospel message.

I hope we can all reflect on what SingingBeauty has said and hopefully go out into our community and help. We are ALL guilty in this area. Even though I run a homeless ministry–I could do more!!

Thank you SB for making me reflect on this issue.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

Don’t make me feel guilty for the relatively comfortable life I have. I work hard for it, and I’ve worked my whole life for it, and so have my parents, and we’ll probably work until the day we die.

It’s called progress. Progress is not un-Christian.

Are we not allowed to progress? Must we be reduced to the lowest standard of living?

Work hard, say your prayers, and be thankful for what you’ve got.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Don’t make me feel guilty for the relatively comfortable life I have. I work hard for it, and I’ve worked my whole life for it, and so have my parents, and we’ll probably work until the day we die.

It’s called progress. Progress is not un-Christian.

Are we not allowed to progress? Must we be reduced to the lowest standard of living?

Work hard, say your prayers, and be thankful for what you’ve got.

I agree with you but we must also give back. We shouldnt hold on to our time and money too tight or it will master us.

If you were in need you may think differently.

 

[ibkc]

I agree with you but we must also give back. We shouldnt hold on to our time and money too tight or it will master us.

If you were in need you may think differently.

See, you’re assuming he doesn’t agree with you, which to me is quite odd. He didn’t say he disagrees with the idea of charity and helping others; he simply said he doesn’t think it’s a bad thing to work hard and to live comfortably.

 

[ralphinal]

I think that it is not so much selfishness as it is simply not considering the plight of others. Many Christians will help those in need once they see the need and are asked. Where we fail is in seeking out those who need out help and then doing what we can to help. We get so wrappped up in our own little world, that we forget the other 6 billion people on it.

 

[aurora77]

I am speaking more to those of us living in the US (I don’t know much about living conditions for those in other countries but feel free to jump on in with your thoughts ) and ‘we’ would be ALL Christians…

In the US it is still socially acceptable to be christian. You don’t have fear to being killed for your beliefs and yes, while there are some times when you can get ridiculed for your beliefs by individuals, you don’t have to fear torture by the government nor do you have to fear for your families lives for it. So why is it that there aren’t christians flooding the streets in every state and square mile taking care of our broken world. In the time of Christ and soon after they were working with and for the broken and lost (every one of them) even though they faced danger and death.

I think it’s precisely because we as Christians have it so easy here in the U.S. Our faith isn’t tested on a daily basis, we’ve allowed ourselves to become complacent. I recently listened to a radio show discussing the plight of Catholics in China, how people risk their lives just to go to Mass. In the U.S., people skip Mass (or skip their particular church service), just to sleep in. How skewed is that perspective?

I do think we need to feel a sense of guilt for our big houses and fancy cars when there are those out there who scrap together $5 just to feed the family for the week. We get caught up in our bible studies, getting together to discuss what God wants but then we turn around and lose our sights in kids soccer games and working 120 hours a week to afford the nice car and house. Didn’t Christ tell the rich man to give up all his possessions to follow Him?

Here I disagree. If you were to try to live on $5 a day, where would you be? You’d be dependent upon the charity of others, taking resources away from those who actually need them. There’s no reason that I should feel guilty for living in my modest home. I SHOULD feel guilty if I do nothing with my time, talent, and treasure, to the best of my ability.

Have we, as Christians, lost sight of what it is ALL really about? I live in a mobile home in the ‘ghetto’ of Washington State but I am really beginning to see how much I actually have. With my leaky roof and mold ridden ceiling I still see that I have a roof over my head and warmth in the winter. I was watching ‘Extreme Makeover - Home Addition’ tonight about a family who gave up safety to move to a dangerous community to help turn the war zone (as it was nicknamed) into something where you can walk down the street and “not fear that a pop would make you wonder if it was your kid lying in the street” as one woman put it.

I’ve listened to inspiring stories of those who were called by God to make a difference in what are the war zones of the U.S. It’s amazing. Please keep in mind, that God calls ALL of us to a higher purpose and that ALL of mankind needs us to minister to them, rich and poor. I heard a protestant preacher once talk about “blooming where you’re planted” and I just loved the message–make a difference in your community, in your church family, wherever that is.

The church I attend has what is called ‘Compassion Month’ where we go out into the community and help those in need with whatever they need help with. But why do we have to have something designated to remind us of what we need to do?

Because we’re only human. Why do we have to have Lent every year? Why do we celebrate Easter and Christmas every year? Because as selfish, sinful people, we need to be reminded, we need to hear that call from God to celebrate Him and to care for His people.

And I am not looking to hear about what your church does, I know that our churches do things to help communities. What I am looking for is the congregations and what we, as Christians, are doing. We have been blessed so much (even with leaky roofs ) why do we not practice what Christ said and give up all to follow Him? I count myself in this.

I think that you’re missing His point. We have to give up ourselves. In the instance you cite, the rich man’s wealth was so important to him, it was his stumbling block to following Christ. What keeps you personally from following Christ to the fullest? I think that’s what we all need to pray about. Is it practical for every single Christian to give away all of their money to someone else, without providing for his or her basic needs? How do I benefit others, when I have to rely on others to feed me and clothe me? Wouldn’t it make more sense for me to provide for myself, thus enabling me to provide for others?

I don’t think we clothe, feed, or give water to enough people because if we did this then there would be none.

?? I don’t understand.

We don’t band together to help even fellow Christians in our own congregations. People walk in and out of our churches every day who could use even basic help. What do we do to better recognize this? We don’t need more charities, we just need to GO…

Thoughts?

I’m sorry this is true within your congregation, but it isn’t true in mine. Of course, we can improve, and sometimes the stranger slips through, but overall, if there is a need, my fellow parishoners band together to help those in need.

 

[Singinbeauty]

Thank you all for your comments. I do agree that we have an interesting take on our Faith here in the US. While there are those dying for their beliefs we have some that stay home to sleep in and not go… I have definitely had this issue and am trying to change my attitude. Maybe this is where some of my guilt is coming from and I am happy God is working in me to change my attitude.

But the whole not feeling guilty of working hard to live comfortably… When did Christ ever do this? Or the apostles? They worked hard to help others and gave ALL to them. Why do we, as Christians, find this to be a hard issue? We have so many around us, no matter where you live, who need clothing - food - and rest but we are wrapped up in our lives, sometimes so much so that those others around us are lost in the blur… In the end, what will it matter that we spend our days at work then come home for family time and go to church on Sundays?

Is just existing and going to church enough? I see so much in the bible of the examples as Christians to give all of us… Have we lost sight of this?

 

[AgnosTheist]

This is a lovely thread.

 

[ibkc]

But the whole not feeling guilty of working hard to live comfortably… When did Christ ever do this? Or the apostles? They worked hard to help others and gave ALL to them. Why do we, as Christians, find this to be a hard issue? We have so many around us, no matter where you live, who need clothing - food - and rest but we are wrapped up in our lives, sometimes so much so that those others around us are lost in the blur… In the end, what will it matter that we spend our days at work then come home for family time and go to church on Sundays?

I think we are expected to do everything we can. In the Catholic Church we have religious who do give their entire lives to helping others in the name of Christ. But marriage and parenting are also considered vocations, and growing a family means that we must keep some things for ourselves. It would hardly be right to have a family of five children and then deprive them of a decently comfortable life in favor of giving away the majority of the family’s income to the poor, would it? Or are you really suggesting that we feed our children rice and water day after day and dress them in rags, so that we’ll all be in solidarity with the poor? The argument that no one should have more than others is not a road that leads to happy results, as history has shown us time and again.

 

[BlestOne]

I run a homeless ministry in one of the richest counties in the country(yes even wealthy areas have homeless)

If I was homeless I would stay in the rich sections too… they have better police coverage and their garbage is much better… Seriously, I used to be homeless… rich folks are more likely to throw out a blanket that is perfectly good when they redecorate… they also will throw out whole containers of food if they don’t like the taste… unopened. Carpets… you bet! I got good stuff from the nicer sections of town!

 

[Singinbeauty]

I think we are expected to do everything we can. In the Catholic Church we have religious who do give their entire lives to helping others in the name of Christ. But marriage and parenting are also considered vocations, and growing a family means that we must keep some things for ourselves. It would hardly be right to have a family of five children and then deprive them of a decently comfortable life in favor of giving away the majority of the family’s income to the poor, would it? Or are you really suggesting that we feed our children rice and water day after day and dress them in rags, so that we’ll all be in solidarity with the poor? The argument that no one should have more than others is not a road that leads to happy results, as history has shown us time and again.

What I am saying is that we need to teach our children, by example, that we need to give our time - energy - and effort to those who need it. It’s not about ignoring our families but rather not ignoring those in need while nestling in being more than amply comfortable. We should not just leave it to those who lead the church to take care of everyone. A lot of us (not everyone) go to work, go home, play with the kids, go to church and expect that this is enough. We get busy with the non-important stuff and forget our command from Christ. To GO and make disciples of men and to love eachother as we love God. There is nothing from that that says just going to church and raising a family is enough.

 

[Ceil-1]

Most serious Christians I know are struggling just to make ends meet. Others give as much as they can, but most of their time is spent working to pay the bills.

The ones with money that are spending on themselves are Christian in name only.

 

[Cat]

I don’t think we should judge other Christians.

Sometimes those who appear rich and selfish are actually very charitable. It seems that the rich really do get richer even when they give it away constantly. Just because someone has a huge mansion doesn’t mean that they are failing to give to the poor and less fortunate.

My kids attended a private prep school in our city. A large percentage of the CEOs in our city are graduates of this school, as are many of the doctors. What we discovered is that these extremely rich people (including a few millionaires) are extremely generous with their money and time.

Most of the hospitals in the U.S. were built by–the rich. Same for many schools, theaters, libraries, museums, parks, etc. The rich make life a lot better for all of us, not just by donating their money to worthy causes, but also by starting companies that provide the rest of us with jobs.

We can’t often know what people are doing to help others. Most of us don’t share our charitable deeds in public, but we keep them between ourselves and God.

I think most Christians are doing something to help others who are less fortunate, but it may be in a small way that doesn’t get noticed or publicized. E.g., every week for many years I have taken a schizophrenic friend out to dinner. She lives in an institution, but she is allowed out into the community. I think I get more out of the dinners than she does!

Now everyone forget that I shared that “good deed” with you!

Actually, some people do know about it. The people I work with take the phone calls from her confirming our dinners. They know about her. Perhaps someone at work has been watching me for years, and perhaps someday, they will believe in Jesus because they’ve seen Him in me. I pray it will be so. But that’s not why I take my friend out–to get “notches” on my Evangelism Gun! I take her out because I love her and want to help her.

 

[Singinbeauty]

I don’t think we should judge other Christians.

Sometimes those who appear rich and selfish are actually very charitable. It seems that the rich really do get richer even when they give it away constantly. Just because someone has a huge mansion doesn’t mean that they are failing to give to the poor and less fortunate.

My kids attended a private prep school in our city. A large percentage of the CEOs in our city are graduates of this school, as are many of the doctors. What we discovered is that these extremely rich people (including a few millionaires) are extremely generous with their money and time.

Most of the hospitals in the U.S. were built by–the rich. Same for many schools, theaters, libraries, museums, parks, etc. The rich make life a lot better for all of us, not just by donating their money to worthy causes, but also by starting companies that provide the rest of us with jobs.

We can’t often know what people are doing to help others. Most of us don’t share our charitable deeds in public, but we keep them between ourselves and God.

I think most Christians are doing something to help others who are less fortunate, but it may be in a small way that doesn’t get noticed or publicized. E.g., every week for many years I have taken a schizophrenic friend out to dinner. She lives in an institution, but she is allowed out into the community. I think I get more out of the dinners than she does!

Now everyone forget that I shared that “good deed” with you!

Actually, some people do know about it. The people I work with take the phone calls from her confirming our dinners. They know about her. Perhaps someone at work has been watching me for years, and perhaps someday, they will believe in Jesus because they’ve seen Him in me. I pray it will be so. But that’s not why I take my friend out–to get “notches” on my Evangelism Gun! I take her out because I love her and want to help her.

Most definitely Cat, I am not trying to say that just because someone is ‘rich’ that they are not doing anything. I just know that for myself and others that I know (have known) it seems that we have a mentality that if we go to church that is enough. It is definitely something that is on my mind so that is why I brought it up. Thanx for the thoughts!

 

[aurora77]

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But the whole not feeling guilty of working hard to live comfortably… When did Christ ever do this? Or the apostles? They worked hard to help others and gave ALL to them. Why do we, as Christians, find this to be a hard issue? We have so many around us, no matter where you live, who need clothing - food - and rest but we are wrapped up in our lives, sometimes so much so that those others around us are lost in the blur… In the end, what will it matter that we spend our days at work then come home for family time and go to church on Sundays?

Is just existing and going to church enough? I see so much in the bible of the examples as Christians to give all of us… Have we lost sight of this?

No, I don’t think just existing and going to church is enough. We definitely have lost the concept of sacrificing for others, especially in the U.S. Christianity is too easy here, life is so easy for most of us. Not to say that those of us on these forums don’t struggle from time to time, but the fact that we’re here at all, doing something as non-essential as having this discussion means that we must be doing all right.

I think you’re right–most of us could do a lot more to help others. We could give up so much and still be able to live. I guess I just have a problem with giving away everything and then becoming a burden on someone else. It makes more sense to me to provide for our needs and then help others.

 

[MarkInOregon]

See, you’re assuming he doesn’t agree with you, which to me is quite odd. He didn’t say he disagrees with the idea of charity and helping others; he simply said he doesn’t think it’s a bad thing to work hard and to live comfortably.

How do you define comfortable? Does Christ command us to live comfortably?
But the question is what is comfortable? Is that the way we are living in modern America? When do we have enough? Do our children really need there own rooms? Is it such a bad thing to share a room? Do people really need Mercedes or would Fords do just as well? Do we really need a TV in every room? Do our kids need their own TVs, IPODS, computers etc. Is that being comfortable or greedy–when you look around the world and around our own cities?

Peace of Christ,
Mark in Oregon

 

[MarkInOregon]

I think that you’re missing His point. We have to give up ourselves. In the instance you cite, the rich man’s wealth was so important to him, it was his stumbling block to following Christ. What keeps you personally from following Christ to the fullest? I think that’s what we all need to pray about. Is it practical for every single Christian to give away all of their money to someone else, without providing for his or her basic needs? How do I benefit others, when I have to rely on others to feed me and clothe me? Wouldn’t it make more sense for me to provide for myself, thus enabling me to provide for others?

Who has suggested you give up all your money without providing for your basic needs? Of course you provide for your basic needs the question is what are legitimately our basic needs and what do we do with our funds once those needs are met. I think maybe it is you that has missed the point. I would argue that many provide for than our basic needs (I include myself in this). Since when is a Range Rover or a Mercedes a basic need. Since when is a 5,000 sq ft house a basic need? Since when are multiple TVs, computers and sundry other electronic gadgets basic needs. Have you considered how much food the average household not to mention the restaurants of this country waste and throw out everyday–is all that food a basic need? How many people have a closet full of clothes they never wear–are those clothes a basic need? The orginal poster has a point – we should be looking at how we live and asking if it is in accord with the Gospel. We have been given and much will be expected from us.
It is time we stop kidding ourselves and acting as if we deserve all the stuff we have. Everything we have is a gift from God–are we using it how God would have us use it or are we using it how we want and claiming God’s ok with it.

Peace of Christ,
Mark in Oregon

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