Are we biological robots in the eyes of God?

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But we also live amidst disease, mental illness, mass genocide, rape, torture-the latter being evils committed by man. And victims of such evils certainly know we’re not living in Eden or heaven. God remains “hidden” to a large extent, for now.
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fhansen, you are certainly right, and I understand why people enduring great hardship might see the glass as half empty instead of half full.
This is why St Paul tells us that “now we see as through a glass darkly, *then *we’ll see face to face”.
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Absolutely!
And 1 Cor 2, quoting Isaiah tells us: No eye has seen, No ear has heard, No mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love Him.
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Indeed.
Otherwise the Beatific Vision wouldn’t really have much to offer, relatively speaking, would it? But as it is, those who love God have an infinitely awesome, ineffably soul-satiating beatitude to look forward to.
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The “beatific vision” is an important eschatological model, primarily for human beings. The Isaianic “peaceable kingdom” is another important model, that extends the eschatological future to all creatures (Isaiah 11:6-9).

StAnastasia
 
StAnastasia said:
fhansen, you are certainly right, and I understand why people enduring great hardship might see the glass as half empty instead of half full.

Absolutely!

Indeed.

The “beatific vision” is an important eschatological model, primarily for human beings. The Isaianic “peaceable kingdom” is another important model, that extends the eschatological future to all creatures (Isaiah 11:6-9).

StAnastasia
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See bolded section above. What do you mean by this? Church teaching is clear that the beatific vision is a future “reality” for those who die in the state of grace. It is not a model or concept, as we will see God face-to-face.
 
davidv said:
See bolded section above. What do you mean by this? Church teaching is clear that the beatific vision is a future “reality” for those who die in the state of grace. It is not a model or concept, as we will see God face-to-face.
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There are various eschatological models. The “beatific vision” is one, the “heavenly banquet” is another, the “peaceable kingdom” a third, the “new creation” yet another. They are not exclusive, and may interpenetrate. There is no proof for any of them, and they speak to different dimensions of the human imagination. The Pauline notion of the “new creation” resonates strongly with me, as it involves the enfolding of the whole of our ancient, dynamic, and evolving creation into God’s all-encompassing reality. The “beatific vision” would presumably be part of that new creation.
 
StAnastasia said:
The “beatific vision” is an important eschatological model, primarily for human beings. The Isaianic “peaceable kingdom” is another important model, that extends the eschatological future to all creatures (Isaiah 11:6-9).

StAnastasia
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What I’m really getting at is that the longer I’ve lived in this world-with the good, bad, and indifferent experiences it has to offer, and the more I’ve grown in knowledge and love of God, including direct experiences I’ve been granted of Him (“glimpses” of the BV, so to speak), the more real the term “exile” becomes-and the more fully I understand that there’s no Utopia/promised land to be found on earth-eternal life may begin here but this ain’t it! 🙂
 
fhansen said:
What I’m really getting at is that the longer I’ve lived in this world-with the good, bad, and indifferent experiences it has to offer, and the more I’ve grown in knowledge and love of God, including direct experiences I’ve been granted of Him (“glimpses” of the BV, so to speak), the more real the term “exile” becomes-and the more fully I understand that there’s no Utopia/promised land to be found on earth-eternal life may begin here but this ain’t it! 🙂
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Thanks – we can probably agree to disagree on the basis of our experience. “Exile” has no resonance with me as that is not my experience. But I do agree with you that this is not a utopia!
 
So far I have been the only one to view ourselves as “biological robots” in the eyes of God. Does anybody else have this view?
 
Robert_Sock said:
So far I have been the only one to view ourselves as “biological robots” in the eyes of God. Does anybody else have this view?
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So far it sounds awfully negative-simplistic even-given the complexity of human nature, Robert. I don’t think that would be God’s view at all-especially in light of revelation. We are creatures, to be sure, but He created humankind incredibly grand-beyond our ken. Robots would lack the ability to love, for one thing, I’d think. It’s been brought up before but are you sure this isn’t sort of a shame-based (pride-related) viewpoint, posing as knowledge?
 
fhansen said:
Robots would lack the ability to love, for one thing, I’d think. It’s been brought up before but are you sure this isn’t sort of a shame-based (pride-related) viewpoint, posing as knowledge?
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It’s great humility while living in this lower world of creation. Love is a given. I believe wholeheartedly in a World-to-Come where we will have glorified bodies, never to be “meatbots” again.
 
Robert_Sock said:
It’s great humility while living in this lower world of creation. Love is a given. I believe wholeheartedly in a World-to-Come where we will have glorified bodies, never to be “meatbots” again.
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Well, whatever terms are used for them, I agree, especially as I’ve aged, these bodies will be nice to be rid of!
 
Robert_Sock said:
It’s great humility while living in this lower world of creation. Love is a given. I believe wholeheartedly in a World-to-Come where we will have glorified bodies, never to be “meatbots” again.
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I will not permit you to call me a meatbot.

I have an intellect and will that is made in the image of God. I can will to build up or to tear down. This choice is all mine and I will be held responsible for the choices I make. God created the heavens and the earth and called it “good”. He created mankind and called it “good”.

We are not in exile, at least not by our existance. St. Paul says we are sojourners, not exiles. We are only in exile when we withdraw from God in sin.
 
antroji said:
The concept of man as “meatbot” is not new, as it is what materialism tends to view mankind as. But it seems to me that the responder who said that you can’t be, because you asked the question, has a good point. And I must say that while the Church’s stance made sense to me up to the point that I had a profound and life changing insight about the nature of mind and personality, I now consider that position to be a necessary public stance because the actual situation, as I and some others see it, is way out there and impossible to grasp as an intellectual assertion.
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Antroji:

Now you’ve done it! You’ve seriously piqued my curiosity! Are you at liberty to explain?

God bless,
jd
 
Robert_Sock said:
Thanks for your reply and words of encouragement!

I have come to love my Lord my God with all my heart and with all my soul and with all my mind and with all my strength. I’m not suicidal but I long for the day when I’m released from the confinement of this earthly body and enter into the glory of Heaven. Surely we live in exile here in this world! And surely, these bodies will be viewed as most primitive once we comprehend our glorified bodies in the World-to-Come.

It’s all a matter of where one focuses one’s attention. I’m tired of this life and I focus all my attention on life in the riches of Heaven. For example, the more I dwell on this life the more the more I am aware of my own wretchedness. Take a close look at the the burdens of this life! Woe to those who love this miserable and corruptible life! The needs of these bodies are gross and burdensome! For example, to eat mutilated chicken is gross beyond comparison. (It was in my preparing chicken for the first time that I became aware of just how primitive we are in this world. Sense and see. Tell me we are not meatbots!)

I won’t dwell much more but I encourage you to read The Imitation of Christ, Chapter 22 of Book One. This chapter paints a bleak picture of this life, but points one to the glory of Heaven. The Golden Key to Heaven by Saint Anthony Mary Claret is another great book. Here is a sample:

*The death of the just: Death will reach everyone, the good and the bad; but the destiny of each one is quite different. The just man sees himself in this valley of tears as a prisoner, serving a very hard term. He considers himself a slave in this world, suffering an extremely distressing servitude. He regards himself a sailor caught in a horrible storm. And as death means an end of his confinement, an end of his slavery, and is the port of his salvation, he ceases not to cry with David, “Woe is me that my sojourning is prolonged!” . . . (Ps. 119:5). He ceases not to ask with the Apostle, “. . . Who shall deliver me from the body of this death?” (Rom. 7:24)
*
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Robert:

Do you not see what you have just done? Do you not know that you have profoundly made God known to each of us? Do you not see that you have much more of this to do?

St. Thomas essentially cast down his Summa, calling it a bunch of straw. He then walked off into whatever he saw and passed from this life. Each of us - including you - has this requirement from God. Go out and evangelize. Go out and convert. Go out and help. Go out and encourage. Go out and open eyes.

You cannot go until that is done to God’s satisfaction, not your own. Then, He will sublimely take you to him - in all of your seeming wretchedness.

God bless,
jd
 
StAnastasia said:
Overt he weekend Antroji was taken by the Others.
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So I’ve just noticed. I can’t imagine what he might have done to cause this. I’m sure he knows no one on any other planet! I hope he can return. He’s a decent philosopher.

God bless,
jd
 
JDaniel said:
Robert:

Do you not see what you have just done? Do you not know that you have profoundly made God known to each of us? Do you not see that you have much more of this to do?

St. Thomas essentially cast down his Summa, calling it a bunch of straw. He then walked off into whatever he saw and passed from this life. Each of us - including you - has this requirement from God. Go out and evangelize. Go out and convert. Go out and help. Go out and encourage. Go out and open eyes.

You cannot go until that is done to God’s satisfaction, not your own. Then, He will sublimely take you to him - in all of your seeming wretchedness.

God bless,
jd
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Thanks! Sometimes I feel I’m wasting my life away, but then I think of all the holy people in monasteries who devote their whole life to prayer. That’s where I feel I should be, in a monastery, but my age will not allow it. What I’m left with is touching a few people in my life, but praying for everyone, always. At time I struggle but I know there are a lot of people in far worse shape than me.
 
JDaniel said:
So I’ve just noticed. I can’t imagine what he might have done to cause this. I’m sure he knows no one on any other planet! I hope he can return. He’s a decent philosopher.God bless,jd
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It’s a mystery. Perhaps he offended Jacob or the Man in Black. But you’re right – all of his posts that I saw were thoughtful and charitable.
 
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