Are we born to fail?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Cure
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
C

Cure

Guest
A few months ago I finally finished with my Catechism classes, and was baptized as a Catholic. I thought that by becoming a Catholic, I would grow closer to God, but in some ways it almost seems as if the opposite has happened. At times I find myself being even angrier…at myself mainly. Since becoming Catholic I’ve found myself feeling an unbearable kind of guilt for every thought…almost every word…I go through every day hating myself for…being human. It seems that pretty much everything that makes us human is sinful.

We are born with emotions like lust, hate, fear, envy, anger, doubt, selfishness…yet…to feel these emotions are considered sins.

We are born in this world, it is all that we know…yet…to love it is a sin.

We go day in and day out faced with relentless temptation…yet…we are expected to never grow weak, to never give in…or it is a sin.

People always tell me that through Jesus, our sins have been forgiven. But…WHO’S choice was it for us to be born in sin? It is not OUR choice to be born in sin.
We are born sinners. We are born doomed to Hell. If God loves us…then why is it that we are born this way? It’s almost as if we were born to fail.

If you choose to respond to this, please don’t preach about “free choice”. As Catholics, we know that there is no such thing…either you do what the church tells you…or you go to Hell…not much of a choice.
 
Which makes His sacrifice on the behave of such sinners even more remarkable.
If He loves me that much, I must be worth loving, even in my falleness. This does not give us the excuse to giveup in our own struggle against sinfulness, though. 🙂
 
If you choose to respond to this, please don’t preach about “free choice”. As Catholics, we know that there is no such thing…either you do what the church tells you…or you go to Hell…not much of a choice.
Correction: You can choose hell or you can choose heaven. That is by definition a choice.
 
A few months ago I finally finished with my Catechism classes, and was baptized as a Catholic. I thought that by becoming a Catholic, I would grow closer to God, but in some ways it almost seems as if the opposite has happened. At times I find myself being even angrier…at myself mainly. Since becoming Catholic I’ve found myself feeling an unbearable kind of guilt for every thought…almost every word…I go through every day hating myself for…being human. It seems that pretty much everything that makes us human is sinful.

We are born with emotions like lust, hate, fear, envy, anger, doubt, selfishness…yet…to feel these emotions are considered sins.

We are born in this world, it is all that we know…yet…to love it is a sin.

We go day in and day out faced with relentless temptation…yet…we are expected to never grow weak, to never give in…or it is a sin.

People always tell me that through Jesus, our sins have been forgiven. But…WHO’S choice was it for us to be born in sin? It is not OUR choice to be born in sin.
We are born sinners. We are born doomed to Hell. If God loves us…then why is it that we are born this way? It’s almost as if we were born to fail.

If you choose to respond to this, please don’t preach about “free choice”. As Catholics, we know that there is no such thing…either you do what the church tells you…or you go to Hell…not much of a choice.
It is not a sin to feel the emotions you speak of. It is a sin to act on them.
 
A few months ago I finally finished with my Catechism classes, and was baptized as a Catholic. I thought that by becoming a Catholic, I would grow closer to God, but in some ways it almost seems as if the opposite has happened. At times I find myself being even angrier…at myself mainly. Since becoming Catholic I’ve found myself feeling an unbearable kind of guilt for every thought…almost every word…I go through every day hating myself for…being human. It seems that pretty much everything that makes us human is sinful.

We are born with emotions like lust, hate, fear, envy, anger, doubt, selfishness…yet…to feel these emotions are considered sins.

We are born in this world, it is all that we know…yet…to love it is a sin.

We go day in and day out faced with relentless temptation…yet…we are expected to never grow weak, to never give in…or it is a sin.

People always tell me that through Jesus, our sins have been forgiven. But…WHO’S choice was it for us to be born in sin? It is not OUR choice to be born in sin.
We are born sinners. We are born doomed to Hell. If God loves us…then why is it that we are born this way? It’s almost as if we were born to fail.

If you choose to respond to this, please don’t preach about “free choice”. As Catholics, we know that there is no such thing…either you do what the church tells you…or you go to Hell…not much of a choice.
You need to change your religion in your profile.😉
 
Thanks to everyone who has replied thus far. I knew, even before converting that this would not be an easy thing. I guess, even before converting I have been troubled by the thought of our fallen nature as humans.

I guess someone would just say “suck it up”, but it’s really not that simple when I thinks of some of the things I’ve gone through in life. I have tried to “suck it up” and go through life trying to be happy despite the misery I feel on the inside. It seems that trying to be happy…when you’re really not…only makes matters worse.

These struggles…the stress…many days…just doesn’t seem worth going through…you know? I know that we don’t have any other choice then to go through with these things, but I guess the real question I’m trying to ask is…do we have to?

Do we HAVE to have a fallen nature? Do we have to struggle with our feelings and our emotions? All of the negative things about humans…God could just take it all away in the blink of an eye if He wanted to. Then no one would have to suffer in Hell because of acting upon our sinful thoughts or desires.

Then when we make it to Heaven…will we still have the power to choose? Will we still have a fallen nature? If not, why can’t we be that way now?

Sorry, I’m asking way too many questions.
 
Hello Lancer,

Do you feel that I need to change my faith on my profile because of the questions I ask?
 
Thanks to everyone who has replied thus far. I knew, even before converting that this would not be an easy thing. I guess, even before converting I have been troubled by the thought of our fallen nature as humans.

I guess someone would just say “suck it up”, but it’s really not that simple when I thinks of some of the things I’ve gone through in life. I have tried to “suck it up” and go through life trying to be happy despite the misery I feel on the inside. It seems that trying to be happy…when you’re really not…only makes matters worse.

These struggles…the stress…many days…just doesn’t seem worth going through…you know? I know that we don’t have any other choice then to go through with these things, but I guess the real question I’m trying to ask is…do we have to?

Do we HAVE to have a fallen nature? Do we have to struggle with our feelings and our emotions? All of the negative things about humans…God could just take it all away in the blink of an eye if He wanted to. Then no one would have to suffer in Hell because of acting upon our sinful thoughts or desires.

Then when we make it to Heaven…will we still have the power to choose? Will we still have a fallen nature? If not, why can’t we be that way now?

Sorry, I’m asking way too many questions.
I have asked the same questions. And some of these we might not ever be able to answer. The only thing that I can think of is God created life this way in order to learn how to obtain the most joy that we possibly can. I don’t know why God didn’t just instill that joy and sinless nature in all of us to begin with. But I think it has something to do with free will. In order to experience what God has in store for us we need to choose it on our own. And the reason God made this difficult I don’t know. But I can trust Him because of all the things he has given me that give me great joy. God = love. So I can only trust that he knows what he is doing. It’s impossible for him not to.
 
We are called to be faithful no matter what happens in life. All we can do is try to stay on the right path. We do fall into temptation we do sin but we need to recognize when we do. The sacraments are there to help us. Maybe try going to Blessed Sacrament regularly. It helps me tremendously.
 
I have asked the same questions. And some of these we might not ever be able to answer. The only thing that I can think of is God created life this way in order to learn how to obtain the most joy that we possibly can. I don’t know why God didn’t just instill that joy and sinless nature in all of us to begin with.
But he did. Our 1st parents just screwed it up 😉
But I think it has something to do with free will. In order to experience what God has in store for us we need to choose it on our own. And the reason God made this difficult I don’t know. But I can trust Him because of all the things he has given me that give me great joy. God = love. So I can only trust that he knows what he is doing. It’s impossible for him not to.
This is exactly it, IMHO. You see, God so loved us that he made us in the image of His Son. We were given free will (or we would just be robots, really, and what would be the point?). We blew it. And He still loves us. God is out of time; he never, if you will, love(d) us…that would be past tense, and He loves us now and forever, completely. Enough to send his Son to die for us; enough for Him (God, for crying out loud) to respect us so much, that He will not force himself upon us, but allows that decision to be ours. Love: to love us enough to create us; to love us enough to create us free; to love us enough to die for us, to set things right–for us.

We owe him 3 unrepayable debts, really. And still he doesn’t force us to come to Him. What Love!
 
You need to change your religion in your profile.😉
That is not a very charitable response. This is a forum where people should be free to come here with their questions and Cure posed a pretty legitimate one that is worthy of a thoughtful response. Yours was not helpful.

Cure, I hope you have a copy of the Catechism. I have yet to have a question where the answer cannot be found within its contents. There is a section within the Catechism that deals with man’s freedom and within that section I came across a verse that I think may be helpful for you to meditate on: “For freedom Christ has set us free” (Galatians 5:1).

God bless you and welcome to the faith.
 
The consequences of Adam’s sin for humanity

402 All men are implicated in Adam’s sin, as St. Paul affirms: “By one man’s disobedience many (that is, all men) were made sinners”: "sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all men sinned."289 The Apostle contrasts the universality of sin and death with the universality of salvation in Christ. "Then as one man’s trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one man’s act of righteousness leads to acquittal and life for all men."290

403 Following St. Paul, the Church has always taught that the overwhelming misery which oppresses men and their inclination towards evil and death cannot be understood apart from their connection with Adam’s sin and the fact that he has transmitted to us a sin with which we are all born afflicted, a sin which is the “death of the soul”.291 Because of this certainty of faith, the Church baptizes for the remission of sins even tiny infants who have not committed personal sin.292

404 How did the sin of Adam become the sin of all his descendants? The whole human race is in Adam “as one body of one man”.293 By this “unity of the human race” all men are implicated in Adam’s sin, as all are implicated in Christ’s justice. Still, the transmission of original sin is a mystery that we cannot fully understand. But we do know by Revelation that Adam had received original holiness and justice not for himself alone, but for all human nature. By yielding to the tempter, Adam and Eve committed a personal sin, but this sin affected the human nature that they would then transmit in a fallen state.294 It is a sin which will be transmitted by propagation to all mankind, that is, by the transmission of a human nature deprived of original holiness and justice. And that is why original sin is called “sin” only in an analogical sense: it is a sin “contracted” and not “committed” - a state and not an act.

405 Although it is proper to each individual,295 original sin does not have the character of a personal fault in any of Adam’s descendants. It is a deprivation of original holiness and justice, but human nature has not been totally corrupted: it is wounded in the natural powers proper to it, subject to ignorance, suffering and the dominion of death, and inclined to sin - an inclination to evil that is called concupiscence". Baptism, by imparting the life of Christ’s grace, erases original sin and turns a man back towards God, but the consequences for nature, weakened and inclined to evil, persist in man and summon him to spiritual battle.

406 The Church’s teaching on the transmission of original sin was articulated more precisely in the fifth century, especially under the impulse of St. Augustine’s reflections against Pelagianism, and in the sixteenth century, in opposition to the Protestant Reformation. Pelagius held that man could, by the natural power of free will and without the necessary help of God’s grace, lead a morally good life; he thus reduced the influence of Adam’s fault to bad example. The first Protestant reformers, on the contrary, taught that original sin has radically perverted man and destroyed his freedom; they identified the sin inherited by each man with the tendency to evil (concupiscentia), which would be insurmountable. The Church pronounced on the meaning of the data of Revelation on original sin especially at the second Council of Orange (529)296 and at the Council of Trent (1546).297

A hard battle. . .

407 The doctrine of original sin, closely connected with that of redemption by Christ, provides lucid discernment of man’s situation and activity in the world. By our first parents’ sin, the devil has acquired a certain domination over man, even though man remains free. Original sin entails “captivity under the power of him who thenceforth had the power of death, that is, the devil”.298 Ignorance of the fact that man has a wounded nature inclined to evil gives rise to serious errors in the areas of education, politics, social action299 and morals.

408 The consequences of original sin and of all men’s personal sins put the world as a whole in the sinful condition aptly described in St. John’s expression, “the sin of the world”.300 This expression can also refer to the negative influence exerted on people by communal situations and social structures that are the fruit of men’s sins.301

409 This dramatic situation of "the whole world [which] is in the power of the evil one"302 makes man’s life a battle:

The whole of man’s history has been the story of dour combat with the powers of evil, stretching, so our Lord tells us, from the very dawn of history until the last day. Finding himself in the midst of the battlefield man has to struggle to do what is right, and it is at great cost to himself, and aided by God’s grace, that he succeeds in achieving his own inner integrity.303

IV. “YOU DID NOT ABANDON HIM TO THE POWER OF DEATH”

410 After his fall, man was not abandoned by God. On the contrary, God calls him and in a mysterious way heralds the coming victory over evil and his restoration from his fall.304 This passage in Genesis is called the Protoevangelium (“first gospel”): the first announcement of the Messiah and Redeemer, of a battle between the serpent and the Woman, and of the final victory of a descendant of hers.

411 The Christian tradition sees in this passage an announcement of the “New Adam” who, because he “became obedient unto death, even death on a cross”, makes amends superabundantly for the disobedience, of Adam.305 Furthermore many Fathers and Doctors of the Church have seen the woman announced in the Protoevangelium as Mary, the mother of Christ, the “new Eve”. Mary benefited first of all and uniquely from Christ’s victory over sin: she was preserved from all stain of original sin and by a special grace of God committed no sin of any kind during her whole earthly life.306

412 But why did God not prevent the first man from sinning? St. Leo the Great responds, "Christ’s inexpressible grace gave us blessings better than those the demon’s envy had taken away."307 And St. Thomas Aquinas wrote, "There is nothing to prevent human nature’s being raised up to something greater, even after sin; God permits evil in order to draw forth some greater good. Thus St. Paul says, ‘Where sin increased, grace abounded all the more’; and the Exsultet sings, ‘O happy fault,. . . which gained for us so great a Redeemer!’"308

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p1s2c1p7.htm#399
 
Thank you very much ma’am. And in Luigi’s defense; when I first made this post, I had forgotten to change my religion from non-denominational to Catholic on my profile. That’s why he made that comment…I apologize for the misunderstanding. I cannot say the same about Lancer.

I will look up the verse that you posted. Much appreciated.
 
We are born to be put through a test, one might say. And even Adam and Eve, and all the angels experienced that.

But our true purpose is Heaven, that is what we are born for. The test is simply the route, that shows what we truly wish. It is a beautiful thing to see people overcome evils.

We must have confidence and the virtue of hope, supernatural hope, supernatural faith, and supernatural charity to overcome the tests and trials that come our way. 🙂

And we must pray for these trusting in God’s true and loving goodness, who desires to save us, not to condemn us.
 
That is not a very charitable response. This is a forum where people should be free to come here with their questions and Cure posed a pretty legitimate one that is worthy of a thoughtful response. Yours was not helpful.

Cure, I hope you have a copy of the Catechism. I have yet to have a question where the answer cannot be found within its contents. There is a section within the Catechism that deals with man’s freedom and within that section I came across a verse that I think may be helpful for you to meditate on: “For freedom Christ has set us free” (Galatians 5:1).

God bless you and welcome to the faith.
I am sorry for the confiusion. Please see Cure’s post above.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top