Are we Catholics too hard on the Protestants here?

[Malachi4U]

Ortho:

I am only talking about human power. People shifting sides is a power shift.

I am sorry I miss-self-interpreted what you meant. I spent 26 adult years as a Protestant so I guess I got used to miss-self-interpretation. In those days everybody was right no matter what they thought from what they read. If I was still Protestant I’d just claim the Holy Spirit led me to interpret what you said my way so we would therefor both be right. I’m glad I’m Catholic now so I can have ONE TRUTH. Anyway, Praise GOD, I’m home.

The Reformation was a power shift. The Church lost a great deal of power.

I hope I don’t miss-self-interpret you here but you are wrong, again. The reformation was not a power shift at all, it was a gift from God. God poured His grace out unto His Catholic Church and cleansed it of all the heresy present. The Church didn’t loose power, those who left Christs Holy Catholic Church LOST power, Gods power.

The reformation was not the fault of Protestants per se either. It was the fault of the nobles wanting the wealth of the Church for their own pockets. They used poorly educated Catholics and illgotten clergy to follow them to steal wealth from God. They used the myth of reformation to enrich their royal treasuries. They became the kings of their own churches.

The reformation was not theological at all, that’s just the excuse they use today.

When all the weak in faith and the ignorant/untrained/missguided clergy left Christs body, His Catholic Church, the Church got stronger because it got rid of the part of it that had cancer. That cancer today is reflected in the 20,000 plus Protestants sects each claiming thier opinion is right.:whacky: This doesn’t even consider the non-denominational denominations or the people that just stay home in their bedroom reading the Bible thinking that’s all we have to do to go to heaven. Believe in Jesus and we go to heaven? I guess that means JW’s will go there along with Mormons and Islamics etc… Why did God even tell us what to believe if we just do whatever we want? Did He waste His time? Is Jesus God or a man? Is Jesus a man who was adopted by God? Is there subordination in the Trinity? The Holy Spirit is just “symbolic”. Yea, I learned all these as a Protestant. The only truth is the truth you chose to believe or invent. Who cares what Jesus said.

If the Church can get stronger, can it get weaker?

No. Nothing can get weaker when it is the visible body of Christ on earth, His Catholic Church.

Protestants may think numbers mean power but, of course they’re wrong.

The power of the Catholic Church is not in some majical number, it is the truth it preserves. The truth in God.

 

[gopchristian]

Michael Schiavo, Frances Kissling, Nancy Pelosi, John Kerry, Ted Kennedy…
These Catholics got wide support from many people in their denomination.

Noah, Abraham, David, Elijah, John the Baptist, Jesus…
These Jews got little support from anyone but G-d.

Thank G-d for the religion he uses to save you, but remember he can save anyone he wants by grace alone, for salvation is by grace, through faith, unto works, not by works lest any man should boast of himself without G-d, but unto works as he has ordained us to walk in them, they being a good sign of his grace. G-d created religion to re-root you in himself, but it is by the creator you are saved, not by the creation, for if it is by works it is not by grace. No matter what religion you are, if you love your religion more than you love the holy spirit who comforts those outside your fold then your religion will destroy you. Now, stop bickering & get G-d’s man into the 2008 Republican Primary.

 

[Zooey]

gopchristian: I think we are off topic, but I have to point out that Michael Schiavo is not, never has been Catholic; he is a lapsed Lutheran with strong ties to scientology.
Both Kerry & Kennedy can deny it, but they have basically excommunicated themselves by their support for abortion.

OK, back to our regularly scheduled thread…

 

[Malachi4U]

JMJ

Ortho,

I can see you have a true love of God in you. You have definitely taken that light out from under the bushel basket for us all to see.

It is hard sometimes when you try to share your 'f’aith when it seems like everybody is against you. I often go to Protestant or Mormon forums and am the lone Catholic (i.e. devout Christian), the “Lone Ranger”, the “St. Paul” to the gentiles. You’re doing a good job and showing your love for God for us all to see.

Keep up the good work but, remember to keep your mind open for the truth. Even some anti-Catholic or Mormon sites sometimes have truthfull things in them. Learn to seperate the wheat from the chaff.

Even when it seems you are overwhelmed, never give up. You’re doing great! I just thought you should know that we can see your faith and it makes us proud to know you love God. You may not be Catholic yet, but you shure love God in your own way.

 

[Ortho]

seabird3579:

Well, it is not the Church that walked away from Truth, but Society that has walked away from Truth and in so doing the Church also.

In the End, Christ will be Triumphant and no doubt those that will reign with Him in heaven forever, will not be those who “look influential” by today’s standards.

I agree society has walked away from the Church. That’s why it lost power and influence.

 

[Ortho]

Malachi4U:

I am sorry I miss-self-interpreted what you meant. I spent 26 adult years as a Protestant so I guess I got used to miss-self-interpretation. In those days everybody was right no matter what they thought from what they read. If I was still Protestant I’d just claim the Holy Spirit led me to interpret what you said my way so we would therefor both be right. I’m glad I’m Catholic now so I can have ONE TRUTH. Anyway, Praise GOD, I’m home.I hope I don’t miss-self-interpret you here but you are wrong, again. The reformation was not a power shift at all, it was a gift from God. God poured His grace out unto His Catholic Church and cleansed it of all the heresy present. The Church didn’t loose power, those who left Christs Holy Catholic Church LOST power, Gods power.

The reformation was not the fault of Protestants per se either. It was the fault of the nobles wanting the wealth of the Church for their own pockets. They used poorly educated Catholics and illgotten clergy to follow them to steal wealth from God. They used the myth of reformation to enrich their royal treasuries. They became the kings of their own churches.

The reformation was not theological at all, that’s just the excuse they use today.

When all the weak in faith and the ignorant/untrained/missguided clergy left Christs body, His Catholic Church, the Church got stronger because it got rid of the part of it that had cancer. That cancer today is reflected in the 20,000 plus Protestants sects each claiming thier opinion is right.:whacky: This doesn’t even consider the non-denominational denominations or the people that just stay home in their bedroom reading the Bible thinking that’s all we have to do to go to heaven. Believe in Jesus and we go to heaven? I guess that means JW’s will go there along with Mormons and Islamics etc… Why did God even tell us what to believe if we just do whatever we want? Did He waste His time? Is Jesus God or a man? Is Jesus a man who was adopted by God? Is there subordination in the Trinity? The Holy Spirit is just “symbolic”. Yea, I learned all these as a Protestant. The only truth is the truth you chose to believe or invent. Who cares what Jesus said.No. Nothing can get weaker when it is the visible body of Christ on earth, His Catholic Church.

Protestants may think numbers mean power but, of course they’re wrong.

The power of the Catholic Church is not in some majical number, it is the truth it preserves. The truth in God.

The Church lost a huge amount of power and influence in the reformation. That power and influence flowd to the protestants. It doesn’t matter whise fault it was.

I’d equate a loss of membership, power. prestige, influence, and respect with a weakening of an organization. How would you characterize the weakening of an organization?

 

[Ortho]

Malachi4U:

JMJ

Ortho,

I can see you have a true love of God in you. You have definitely taken that light out from under the bushel basket for us all to see.

It is hard sometimes when you try to share your 'f’aith when it seems like everybody is against you. I often go to Protestant or Mormon forums and am the lone Catholic (i.e. devout Christian), the “Lone Ranger”, the “St. Paul” to the gentiles. You’re doing a good job and showing your love for God for us all to see.

Keep up the good work but, remember to keep your mind open for the truth. Even some anti-Catholic or Mormon sites sometimes have truthfull things in them. Learn to seperate the wheat from the chaff.

Even when it seems you are overwhelmed, never give up. You’re doing great! I just thought you should know that we can see your faith and it makes us proud to know you love God. You may not be Catholic yet, but you shure love God in your own way.

OK. But what does that have to do with the strength or weakness of organizations?

 

[flameburns623]

Malachi4U:

I repeatedly read from Protestants who come to this forum and explain how Catholics here are too unfair or harsh on criticism of their Protestant beliefs - whatever they may be depending on the direction of the wind that day. (OK, I rest my point. I can be guilty of it too? )

Do you think we are fair to Protestants? Too easy on them? Too harsh on them?

Last I looked, Karl Keating wasn’t standing over my shoulder making me post here. And unlike certain YahooGroups run by Evangelicals, no one ‘subscribes’ me to this forum against my will.

And as others have said, the moderators here are fair and reasonable, and the folks who post here are all different kinds–some are Catholics who know nothing about Protestants, some are Catholics who strongly dislike Protestants, some are reasonably well-informed and willing to engage in a real dialogue. The thing about being an Evangelical is that one sort of expects to be . . . evangelized. We evangelize each other as much as anyone else, and so long as it is done respectfully and intelligently most of us don’t mind.

Yeah there are places where the gaps between the Catholic way of looking at things is far removed from my own. A paradigm gulf of the proportions of the galaxy at times. But I’ve rarely been offended here, and often learned something or been edified. Far trade, I’d say.

 

[Della]

Then sorry Della but that theme again that if you dont come to my church that baptists and their ilk, wow, who knew?

In all sincerity, I don’t know what you are referring to here. Do you mean that Catholics saying we hope Protestants will convert to Catholicism means Protestants must do this in order to be saved? I assure you no matter what some Catholics may say or believe, the Catholic Church doesn’t condemn Protestants merely for being Protestants–not those brought up in the Protestant denominations with no more real knowledge of certain aspects of the Catholic Church than many a non-Christian might have. Or who at least misunderstand Catholic teaching so much they cannot be held culpable for not embracing what they don’t understand or think wrong. Help me out, please.

 

[exoflare]

Della:

I assure you no matter what some Catholics may say or believe, the Catholic Church doesn’t condemn Protestants merely for being Protestants–not those brought up in the Protestant denominations with no more real knowledge of certain aspects of the Catholic Church than many a non-Christian might have. Or who at least misunderstand Catholic teaching so much they cannot be held culpable for not embracing what they don’t understand or think wrong. Help me out, please.

Well yeah, you’re right, but what else is there to say? I told Huguenot the same thing though, and he still adamantly disagrees. There’s just no convincing some people; you have no reason to feel guilty when others decide to jump to conclusions.

 

[Malachi4U]

gopchristian:

Michael Schiavo, Frances Kissling, Nancy Pelosi, John Kerry, Ted Kennedy…
These Catholics got wide support from many people in their denomination.

gop,

You seem to be Repulican so I am surprised you got so many facts wrong - that’s not very Repulican you know? I would expect false facts from Democrats (Oops, did I write that out loud? )

Anyway, just to put history back where it belongs without revising it like so many Baptists I know. Michael Schiavo was not supported by any Catholic I know or that I have heard from. In fact everything Catholic I’ve read about him was against his actions.

What denomination had the highest percentage of its members vote AGAINST Kerry? Give up? It was the Catholics! He lost in great part because he couldn’t even kerry (punn) the Church he klaims to be a member of. That speaks well of us Catholics I might add. I have hand outs I got at mass telling us NOT to vote for his platform! (i.e. to vote against kerry)

…Now, stop bickering & get G-d’s man into the 2008 Republican Primary.

Yea! We agree on that!

Who could that be? Pat Robertson? Jimmy Swaggart? Joel Osteen?

 

[Malachi4U]

flameburns623:
… The thing about being an Evangelical is that one sort of expects to be . . . evangelized. We evangelize each other as much as anyone else, and so long as it is done respectfully and intelligently most of us don’t mind…JMJ

flameburns,

Very well said! You will be a great asset here.

 

[Ortho]

Malachi4U:

gop,

You seem to be Repulican so I am surprised you got so many facts wrong - that’s not very Repulican you know? I would expect false facts from Democrats (Oops, did I write that out loud? )

Anyway, just to put history back where it belongs without revising it like so many Baptists I know. Michael Schiavo was not supported by any Catholic I know or that I have heard from. In fact everything Catholic I’ve read about him was against his actions.

What denomination had the highest percentage of its members vote AGAINST Kerry? Give up? It was the Catholics! He lost in great part because he couldn’t even kerry (punn) the Church he klaims to be a member of. That speaks well of us Catholics I might add. I have hand outs I got at mass telling us NOT to vote for his platform! (i.e. to vote against kerry) Yea! We agree on that!

Who could that be? Pat Robertson? Jimmy Swaggart? Joel Osteen?

Tha Catholics on the appeals court supported him. So did the ones on the Supreme Court who refused to hear the case.

 

[Malachi4U]

Ortho:

Tha Catholics on the appeals court supported him. So did the ones on the Supreme Court who refused to hear the case.

The Catholic Church is NOT governed by the Supreme Court, it is governed by God. The Supreme Court judges are not the Church, they are just a few members of it who interpret US law.

 

[pnewton]

Without reading the whole thread, I would say that yes, we often are too hard on most protestants. We should treat them with the courtesy we would desire on their website.

I said “most” because there is the occasinal overly anti-Catholic that is rude and disrestpecful to our faith. We are usually too soft on such a one.

 

[Malachi4U]

pnewton:

Without reading the whole thread, I would say that yes, we often are too hard on most protestants. We should treat them with the courtesy we would desire on their website…

Any idea why they are so harsh and often rude to us on so many of their sites?

 

[Ortho]

Malachi4U:

The Catholic Church is NOT governed by the Supreme Court, it is governed by God. The Supreme Court judges are not the Church, they are just a few members of it who interpret US law.

That’s nice. But you said:
“Michael Schiavo was not supported by any Catholic I know or that I have heard from. In fact everything Catholic I’ve read about him was against his actions.”

So, I told you about the Catholics on the appeals court and the Supreme Court who supported Michael Shiavo. And there are many, many more.

I’d add the Catholic Church in America is subject to court decisions.

 

[Malachi4U]

Ortho:

Tha Catholics on the appeals court supported him. So did the ones on the Supreme Court who refused to hear the case.

Could you please provide their names and the text of the cases? Also provide the rulings and opions so we can read why they decided/ruled the way they did?

Does this prove their support for Michael Schiavo or for their oath to uphold the law - not to legislate?

Are those your opinions or the facts?

Based on your, well, - logic -, I supported Michael Schiavo because I didn’t drive to the hospital to help picket there.

 

[Ortho]

Malachi4U:

Could you please provide their names and the text of the cases? Also provide the rulings and opions so we can read why they decided/ruled the way they did?

Does this prove their support for Michael Schiavo or for their oath to uphold the law - not to legislate?

Are those your opinions or the facts?

Based on your, well, - logic -, I supported Michael Schiavo because I didn’t drive to the hospital to help picket there.

I probably could provide that stuff, but the effort isn’t worth it.

It is fact the Supreme Court refused to hear the case, thereby letting the unanmous opinion of the appeals court supporting Michael stand.

I admire your determined stance to support Michael Shiavo. If you are Catholic, then you know at least one Catholic supporter of Michael. I presume that had you been on the appeals court you would also have supported him.

 

[Neverland]

Dear Malachi and Ortho,

Well, it’s a sad story with a sad ending too. I know all parties fighting there were burdened so much.
I myself, even as a Protestant, would love Michael to hold on treating Terry, but we were not in his shoes. Let God judge, and not us.

In Jesus Love

Neverland