M
MariaG
Guest
Well, nothing like painting all with the same brush
- Status
T
tom4JC
Guest
Time isn’t permitting me to answer each individual reply, though I would love to when I get a chance.
To bengeorge - Bitter and angry is fine, they are. I would not expect anything less from the ‘religious’ person. There is more truth in the phrase ‘The Truth Hurts !’ than you know. That’s called ‘CONVICTION’.
Is that what the Catholics are trying to do here - evangelize?
Jesus gave a woe-ful message to the ‘religious’ people in Mathew 23. You can practicaly see the smoke coming off the pages.
Listen, if God would have wanted ‘the gospel of Peter’ or the ‘missing’ letter to the Corinthians in the final canon, don’t you think it would have been in there? By saying that man (the cardinals, the bishops, the popes, the fathers, or the anybodys) IS / WAS ‘responsible’ for the Bible that we read today is vane !! By saying that, you are limiting God.
Do you not think that God would preserve his word just exactly the way he wanted it?
Yes, there are still traditions in every church. That doesn’t mean if you don’t partake in or keep them, you can’t get to heaven.
I am not against the RCC. As I said, I once was Catholic and now I am not. Read my signature. If God loves the world (Catholics, Protestants, Muslims, Jews, Buhddists, etc.) why shouldn’t I ?
To MrS - ‘The bible, when properly interpreted…’ Properly interpreted by whom? The church? Which church? Yours? Mine?
No, I don’t believe ‘once saved. Always saved.’ It’s eay to tell those that are genuinely saved - look at their fruit. Does an apple tree produce oranges?
I have kids and none of them JOINED my family. No, they were born into it. As to become a child of God we must be ‘born’ into his family. Just because our parents SAY that THEY are Christians does not mean that we automatically are. And by the way, if my kids want to talk to me, they talk to me. they don’t go through another person because they claim the title of mediator.
The separation of the sheep and the goats takes place at the end of the Tribulation.
To bengeorge - Bitter and angry is fine, they are. I would not expect anything less from the ‘religious’ person. There is more truth in the phrase ‘The Truth Hurts !’ than you know. That’s called ‘CONVICTION’.
Is that what the Catholics are trying to do here - evangelize?
Jesus gave a woe-ful message to the ‘religious’ people in Mathew 23. You can practicaly see the smoke coming off the pages.
Listen, if God would have wanted ‘the gospel of Peter’ or the ‘missing’ letter to the Corinthians in the final canon, don’t you think it would have been in there? By saying that man (the cardinals, the bishops, the popes, the fathers, or the anybodys) IS / WAS ‘responsible’ for the Bible that we read today is vane !! By saying that, you are limiting God.
Do you not think that God would preserve his word just exactly the way he wanted it?
Yes, there are still traditions in every church. That doesn’t mean if you don’t partake in or keep them, you can’t get to heaven.
I am not against the RCC. As I said, I once was Catholic and now I am not. Read my signature. If God loves the world (Catholics, Protestants, Muslims, Jews, Buhddists, etc.) why shouldn’t I ?
To MrS - ‘The bible, when properly interpreted…’ Properly interpreted by whom? The church? Which church? Yours? Mine?
No, I don’t believe ‘once saved. Always saved.’ It’s eay to tell those that are genuinely saved - look at their fruit. Does an apple tree produce oranges?
I have kids and none of them JOINED my family. No, they were born into it. As to become a child of God we must be ‘born’ into his family. Just because our parents SAY that THEY are Christians does not mean that we automatically are. And by the way, if my kids want to talk to me, they talk to me. they don’t go through another person because they claim the title of mediator.
The separation of the sheep and the goats takes place at the end of the Tribulation.
L
LegionofMary
Guest
Are we Catholics too hard on the Protestants here? I have followed the Catholic forums for the past 9 months. The reason I come is to learn from each and everyone of you, whether you are Catholic or a Non-Catholic Christian. I did not register until most recently, as I have pretty much chosen to remain a ‘spectator’. I am sure there are many other ‘spectators’ who visit the forums frequently out of curiousity and also a genuine desire to learn.
Much of how a certain thread dialogue progresses is on the sincerity of those posting and the level of respect given. It cannot always be avoided that when an issue arises, a misunderstanding or misreprentation of someones beliefs or their particular Church teachings/doctrines, that correction needs to be made. Pride goeth before destruction.
Pray as you type your replies, and then once you have finished your message, step back and take a few minutes or even longer, then read your reply ‘outloud’ and whenever you ‘hear’ a hint of sarcasm or disprespect, either delete that portion or re-word it to convey your sincerity and share the grace of Christ that He has given to each of you.
Remember that there may be those who are lurking, who are spiritually lost and are seeking eternal answers. Let us show them the love of Christ.
In the Hearts of Jesus and Mary
Much of how a certain thread dialogue progresses is on the sincerity of those posting and the level of respect given. It cannot always be avoided that when an issue arises, a misunderstanding or misreprentation of someones beliefs or their particular Church teachings/doctrines, that correction needs to be made. Pride goeth before destruction.
Pray as you type your replies, and then once you have finished your message, step back and take a few minutes or even longer, then read your reply ‘outloud’ and whenever you ‘hear’ a hint of sarcasm or disprespect, either delete that portion or re-word it to convey your sincerity and share the grace of Christ that He has given to each of you.
Remember that there may be those who are lurking, who are spiritually lost and are seeking eternal answers. Let us show them the love of Christ.
In the Hearts of Jesus and Mary
D
Doreen
Guest
I have been having wonderful discussions on this site with various people of various backgrounds, and I feel MOST Catholics on this site have been willing to listen and accept what I say with grace, and they’ve given me much of their time in trying to help me understand the Catholic teachings…
This has done two things for me:
ONE: given me the ability to admire my Catholic brothers and sisters.
TWO: Allowed me to clear up some serious misunderstandings i have had about the RCC.
I think that we do a terrible disservice to the intent and purpose of a website like this if we cannot discuss topics with respect for others, and though we do not have to agree, one should offer their thoughts without judgement, and with grace.
After all, those who have searched out a site like this, probably have questions…and you won’t persuade anyone to hear you with harsh words and immediate rejection.
2 Timothy 2:24 “And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient,”
(There goes another silly protestant taking bits of the Bible and applying it where they may!!! )
D.
This has done two things for me:
ONE: given me the ability to admire my Catholic brothers and sisters.
TWO: Allowed me to clear up some serious misunderstandings i have had about the RCC.
I think that we do a terrible disservice to the intent and purpose of a website like this if we cannot discuss topics with respect for others, and though we do not have to agree, one should offer their thoughts without judgement, and with grace.
After all, those who have searched out a site like this, probably have questions…and you won’t persuade anyone to hear you with harsh words and immediate rejection.
2 Timothy 2:24 “And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient,”
(There goes another silly protestant taking bits of the Bible and applying it where they may!!!
)D.
M
mercygate
Guest
Doreen, B’luved. You came to the Forums with REAL questions, real situations, real experiences. And you were honest and in serious dialogue. So people treated you with the respect you earned by your respectful demeanor.I have been having wonderful discussions on this site with various people of various backgrounds, and I feel MOST Catholics on this site have been willing to listen and accept what I say with grace, and they’ve given me much of their time in trying to help me understand the Catholic teachings…
This has done two things for me:
ONE: given me the ability to admire my Catholic brothers and sisters.
TWO: Allowed me to clear up some serious misunderstandings i have had about the RCC.
I think that we do a terrible disservice to the intent and purpose of a website like this if we cannot discuss topics with respect for others, and though we do not have to agree, one should offer their thoughts without judgement, and with grace.
After all, those who have searched out a site like this, probably have questions…and you won’t persuade anyone to hear you with harsh words and immediate rejection.
2 Timothy 2:24 “And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient,”
(There goes another silly protestant taking bits of the Bible and applying it where they may!!!
D.
I think this thread got started because Malachi4U (USMC, former Baptist) had got fed up with the kind of anti-Catholic terrorist who verse-slings and smears without ever really hearing the Catholic point of view.
A couple of real pips (Catholic and Protestant) have posted on this thread.
My advice to you is to depart from this thread pronto! It’s a dead end for someone like you with serious questions and bigger issues.
T
tom4JC
Guest
Well said.
I agree that those that are here must be seeking answers. That is a good thing. I too am in that class. The Lord desires that we grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord.
If anyone has been offended by my synicism, I apologize. I just get angry when people like myself can’t, don’t, or won’t see the Truth.
What I mean by that is…I’m not a scholar, I’m not a Theologeon, or a Bible professor, I’m just an ordinary man. I have a job, I have a family, two dogs, and I drive an old beat-up Jeep. The Holy Spirit speaks to me in ways that no man can. It’s not a physical language. It’s not Latin, not Hebrew, not Aramaic. It’s a language of the heart. The inner most being of each and every person alive.
What is so wonderful though is that I’ve spent time with Jesus. Just Him and me. He’s my brother. He’s my friend. He’s my teacher. He’s my Father. He has given me the right to say ‘ABBA’ which means ‘Daddy’. He’s my God, my Lord, and my Savior.
If that sounds ridiculous to you…it’s because maybe you don’t know Him yourself. There is a way. There is a way you can KNOW Him. Know Him personally. Email me and I’ll tell you how I did it.
I agree that those that are here must be seeking answers. That is a good thing. I too am in that class. The Lord desires that we grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord.
If anyone has been offended by my synicism, I apologize. I just get angry when people like myself can’t, don’t, or won’t see the Truth.
What I mean by that is…I’m not a scholar, I’m not a Theologeon, or a Bible professor, I’m just an ordinary man. I have a job, I have a family, two dogs, and I drive an old beat-up Jeep. The Holy Spirit speaks to me in ways that no man can. It’s not a physical language. It’s not Latin, not Hebrew, not Aramaic. It’s a language of the heart. The inner most being of each and every person alive.
What is so wonderful though is that I’ve spent time with Jesus. Just Him and me. He’s my brother. He’s my friend. He’s my teacher. He’s my Father. He has given me the right to say ‘ABBA’ which means ‘Daddy’. He’s my God, my Lord, and my Savior.
If that sounds ridiculous to you…it’s because maybe you don’t know Him yourself. There is a way. There is a way you can KNOW Him. Know Him personally. Email me and I’ll tell you how I did it.
T
tom4JC
Guest
What would you expect a true believer to ‘SLING’ at you - verses from Snapple caps !!?
T
tom4JC
Guest
My friend, I don’t need strength to stick around. What I would need is more false teachings.
You see, if we (you or anyone else) feel the need to confront Scripture with the doctrine of man or tradition, then the only thing I will need is my Bible.
If your FINAL authority is anything but the Word of God, then there is no need for discussion.
C
Church_Militant
Guest
What is it that you mean by this?
So far as I can tell you’re the only one here that is espousing the teachings of men as the Word of God. All because you have been told BY MEN that that is what they mean. But of course they don’t tell you the whole story, because if they did then you’d still be Catholic. All they tell you is the teachings of men that came into being in the “reformation” and have spun off out of control for the last 500 years. But if you go back to the writings of the 1st and 2nd century church you find out real quick that the guys that the apostles discipled didn’t believe the interpretations that you do.
It’s not a matter of doctrines of men in Catholic teaching Tom, it’s the complete other way around, but your preachers and pastors either don’t know about these things (because no one showed them) or else they don’t have the guts and the spiritual and intellectual integrity to obey the Word of God when it says, “15 Carefully study to present thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.” (2nd Timothy 2:15)
Read my story HERE.
But the problem for you is what you mean by your final authority being the Word of God is actually your final authority is your personal interpretation of what you think any given passage of the word of God means. You think this is the pillar of truth, but even here the Word of God does not agree with you because it says “15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.” (1st Timothy 3:15. Emphasis mine) But then all your teachers and preachers didn’t tell you that, did they? No they didn’t. And when you read the New Testament for yourself you sort of read over that verse and ignore it because there is no way to understand it in the context of the teaching that you have embraced. If you accept it as truth from the Word of God, then it means that the whole house of cards of Sola Scriptura begins to crumble and it means that the basis for truth is the church and what the church confirms that a passage means, not what some preacher, or even you or me thinks it means.
Worse still is the situation that precipitates from there, as one begins to look at passages like John 6:30-70, all the Last Supper passages, and 1st Corinthians 10:16-17 & 11:23-30 and when you compare them to the writings of Ignatius of Antioch who was the close friend and disciple of St. John as well as the bishop of that church (LINKED HERE) you see that what you have accepted about those passages does not match.
Suddenly, (if one is honest) one begins to look and notice that most of the teachings of non-Catholic churches do not match what the early church left us in their writings. So if the disciples of the apostle John disagree with what you have been taught that the Word of God means, who is likely to be in error? You and the teachers that you have listened to, or the church that Jesus founded on His chief apostle Kephas and that holds the same teachings today as they did then?
You have been taught that the Catholic Church does not believe the Bible and a bunch of other bunkum, but the FACT is that the Catholic Church believes the BIble and is smart enough to check any interpretations of it against the writings of those who were there with the apostles…and then the men that those bishops and disciple taught. In this way one can be assured that the interpretations of the Word of God are faithful to what comes to us from Christ Himself through his apostles.
You and all those “ex”-Catholics like you need to wake up and really see what is happening to you. I sure did! You have been and are consistently being taught erroneous doctrines of men.
Pax tecum,
A
Alfie
Guest
Church Militant:
Would you please explain to me what you meant by being “saved” from an Evangelical perspective.
C
Church_Militant
Guest
I’m going to assume that you are speaking to me concerning the following part of my testimony on the linked forum.
If so, then this means that I prayed a “sinner’s prayer” and asked Christ to take over my life.
As an essential beginning to conversion that is not too bad a start, but non-Catholics are misled by teachings that tell them that that is all that is required to get us into heaven, when there are many many passages of the Word of God that tell us that there is far more to it than that oversimplified act. Hence the seed fell on some pretty shallow ground and though it sprung up quickly…
There are many many passages of the New Testament that have always shown that our salvation is not so simple as I was led to believe. Here’s a partial list of references:
Matthew 5:3-11 & 16, 7:21, 16:27, 19:16-17, 25:31-46.
Mark 16:16
John 3:8, 5:29, 10:32, 14:12 & 15.
Romans 2:6, 7,10, & 23, 3:28, 8:24, 10:17, & 15:30.
1st Corinthians 9:27,13:1-3 &13, & 16:2
2nd Corinthians 5:10 & 11:15
Galatians 5:6
Colossians 1:10
1st Timothy 5:9-10, & 6:18
2nd Timothy 1:16-18, 2:5 & 6, 21-22, & 3:17
Titus 1:16, 2:7 & 14, 3:8-9 & 14
Hebrews 10:23-24
James 1:22, 2:14-26, & 5:19-20
1st Peter 1:17, & 2:12
2nd Peter 1:10
1st John 3:18
Revelation 2:23, 20:12 & 13, & 22:12
You can of course PM me with any more specific questions. I think you know that.
Pax tecum,
D
Doreen
Guest
Malachi,
You know, you sound like me only I got all kinds of bad teaching in the Catholic Church and finally found Christ in a non-denominational (though Missionary Alliance was the affiliation) church.
I was shocked when I came on this website because I heard people saying just what you are saying…see I was shocked that anyone might actually be obedient to Christ and also be Catholic … just as you don’t think one could possibly find the real truth in a protestant church.
Your take is that protestants think all I have to do is believe and I’m saved. My experience with Catholicism was that everyone just figured as long as they “try to be a good person”…they’d get into heaven. Didn’t matter if they continued to live fruitless, sinful lives.
I didn’t realize that the truth was even being taught in the Catholic church, once I heard it elsewhere…and you didn’t experience any kind of truth in your protestant experience that might have brought you to a real faith…which you seem to have found in the RCC.
So this brings us to a question for a whole 'nother thread: Can the truth be found in both the Catholic and non-Catholic faiths?
You’d say, “No, not the WHOLE, fullness of the truth can be found outside the RCC.” I say, "No, the fullness of the truth is not in the RCC doctrine, because so much has been “added” to Christ’s sacrifice…the doctrine has been enmeshed with “tradition” which has taken the emphasis away from the truth of Christ’s sacrifice for us.
The lesson that I have learned —now I am finally going to comment on the OP’s question is…
If Catholics are too hard on protestants…and some truly did trash me as soon as they got a drift of where I was coming from…then nobody wins. (but the devil) The devil loves for us to be divided and even hateful toward others…that is all part of his game to tear each other down, instead of winning each other over to the likeness of Christ by the love and compassion and fruits of the Spirit in us.
So…do I think the Catholics are too hard on here?
Some definitely.
Others have gained my respect and thus my ear…I am very eager to listen to those who can state their case without attack…this brings meaningful discussion, and I have learned a great deal from this. It has helped me to overcome the harsh attitude I had toward the church that, in my experience, failed me.
Okay, now I am going to get out of this thread, since I wasn’t really invited to it in the first place, but I could not resist commenting. (Even though I grew up Catholic.)
M
Mickey
Guest
This statement disturbed me.
There are two types of tradition according to Sacred Scripture.
- tradition of men
- Sacred Tradition
2 Thess 3:6
Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is living in idleness and not in accord with the **tradition **that you received from us.
S
Steadfast
Guest
Well, it’s the nature of the beast.
Here is a forum on a website devoted to Catholic Apologetics populated by Catholics who listen to Catholic Answers, have read a lot of books on the subject of apologetics from a Catholic perspective and are all too eager to make their cases.
In most cases it’s a matter of caveat emptor.
I used to listen to Dr. Laura (just for entertainment) and I was always amused by people who called up and were shocked when she told them that adultery was wrong, that pre-marital sex was bad etc. Who were these people and why did they think she would bless their moral failings?
The same holds true here, if a Protestant comes here, he or she should know what they’re getting into, and I am saying this as a Protestant who once complained about exactly this thing.
Having said that, I see two problems:
Here is a forum on a website devoted to Catholic Apologetics populated by Catholics who listen to Catholic Answers, have read a lot of books on the subject of apologetics from a Catholic perspective and are all too eager to make their cases.
In most cases it’s a matter of caveat emptor.
I used to listen to Dr. Laura (just for entertainment) and I was always amused by people who called up and were shocked when she told them that adultery was wrong, that pre-marital sex was bad etc. Who were these people and why did they think she would bless their moral failings?
The same holds true here, if a Protestant comes here, he or she should know what they’re getting into, and I am saying this as a Protestant who once complained about exactly this thing.
Having said that, I see two problems:
- Piling On. You would do well to allow your gentler apologists to do the heavy lifting. When you see that a Protestant’s objections are being effectively answered, discretion might be the better part of valor (it is certainly always the better part of charity).
- Learn to differentiate between Fundamentalists and Protestants. The arguments against the former will not fit the latter even though the latter sometimes sound like the former. It’s a terrifically nuanced business, here’s an analogy:
S
shawnbm
Guest
I like the analogy and the point made. You can’t overgeneralize as to the 22,000 denominations of Protestantism. I am, technically, a Protestant because I am part of the Anglican Communion which, technically, protested Romish claims as to Papal Supremacy and Infallibility when speaking ex catedra, though I am fairly well versed in the CCC and Catholic apologetics because I feel the Lord has called me to further explore that which I used to not understand but routinely and blithely criticize as the de facto “largest Protestant Church of the sixteenth century”. I now understand Catholicism more and more and consider myself more of a Catholic Christian who finds himself in a different tradition that claims to be part of the Catholic tree than as a Bible-only Protestant. To some Catholics, however (and regardless of how much I may agree with them theologically), I am still a Protestant and part of the “separated brethren”. I offer this as a means of buttressing what Steadfast indicated because it is a key point–only the most reactionary and fundamentalist of Protestant Christians should be offended (if that is the right word) by Catholic claims as to it being the “one, true, holy, catholic and apostolic church”. I am not; I only search for common ground between our communions and wrestle, as I see it, with whether the Anglican Communion would have to be completely subsumed within the worldwide Catholic Communion or could hold on to its traditions, liturgy and Book of Common Prayer, with slight revisions, naturally. Everything else (which is set forth in the historic Creeds) is common ground as I see it. Shalom everyone!Well, it’s the nature of the beast.
Here is a forum on a website devoted to Catholic Apologetics populated by Catholics who listen to Catholic Answers, have read a lot of books on the subject of apologetics from a Catholic perspective and are all too eager to make their cases.
Having said that, I see two problems:
When you set about learning how to repair diesel engines, you first learn everything you can about fixing them, you learn how they work, about their componentry, etc. And once you’ve learned how to fix Cummins engines you don’t assume that you can fix a Perkins as well.
- Piling On. You would do well to allow your gentler apologists to do the heavy lifting. When you see that a Protestant’s objections are being effectively answered, discretion might be the better part of valor (it is certainly always the better part of charity).
- Learn to differentiate between Fundamentalists and Protestants. The arguments against the former will not fit the latter even though the latter sometimes sound like the former. It’s a terrifically nuanced business, here’s an analogy:
S
swnunley
Guest
I think that, for the most part, the Protestants who come here are treated with love, respect, and tolerance. Generally, they are not told they are heretics and are going to hell (I acknowledge some go too far, but I think most will agree with me that this is not the norm).
However, we do not always get the same treatment in return, as in Contender Ministries, who claim we are a cult;
“If we shied away from addressing the doctrines of Catholicism, simply because we may not be popular for doing so, we would be failing to carry out the Great Commission.”
contenderministries.org/catholicism.php
Check it out for yourselves. For a while they were posting Catholic responses to their claims, but have not done so for nearly a year. Maybe they think the matter is closed.
In my “travels” as an aspiring apologist, I have been thrown out of churches that I had been invited to visit when it was revealed to the pastor I was Catholic, been told that Catholics were going to hell, that nothing good EVER came out of the Church, and been called a heretic. I have even been verbally atacked on my beliefs by persons I considered close friends. I love my protestant brethren, they have taught me many worthwhile things, but sadly, I have found that there is an intolerant streak about them at times.
Check out these scriptures:
Church
Mt 16:18-19 ~ upon this rock I will build my Church
Mt 18:17-18 ~ if he refuses to listen even to the Church
Mt 28:18-20 ~ go baptize and teach all nations
Mk 16:16 ~ go to whole world proclaim gospel
Lk 10:16 ~ who listens to you, listens to me
Jn 14:16-26 ~ HS w/ you always, teach/remind everything
Jn 16:12 ~ Spirit of truth will guide you to all truth
1Tim 3:15 ~ Church is the pillar & foundation of truth
Church is Body of Christ
Col 1:18 ~ he is head of the body, the Church
1Cor 12:20-27 ~ you are Christ’s body, individual parts of it
Eph 5:30 ~ we are members of his body
Rom 12:4-5 ~ though many, we are one body in Christ
1Cor 6:15 ~ not know your bodies are members of Christ?
Church must be One
Jn 10:16 ~ there shall be one fold and one shepherd
Eph 4:3-6 ~ one Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God
Rom 16:17 ~ avoid those who create dissensions
1Cor1:10 ~ I urge that there be no divisions among you
Phil 2:2 ~ be same mind, united in heart, thinking one thing
Rom 5:15 ~ God grant you to think in harmony w/one another
Jn 17:17-23 ~ I pray they may be one, as we are one
Jn 17:23 ~ they be brought to perfection as one
1Cor12:13 ~ in one spirit baptized in one body
Rom 12:5 ~ tho many, one body in Christ
Eph 4:4 ~ one body one Spirit, called to hope
Col 3:15 ~ you were called in one body
Church is Apostolic
Jn 15:16 ~ chose special men
Jn 20:21 ~ gave them his own mission
Lk 22:30 ~ gave them a kingdom
Mt 16:18 ~ built Church upon Peter
Jn 10:16 ~ appointed one shepherd
Lk 22:32 ~ shepherd is Peter
Jn 21:17 ~ shepherd is Peter
Eph 4:11 ~ Hierchical leadership
1Tim 3:18; 5:17 ~ bishops, priests & deacons
Tit 1:5 ~ bishops to ordain priests
Church is Authoritative
Mt 28:18-20 ~ all power given to Apostles
Jn 20:23 ~ given power to forgive sins
1Cor 11:24 ~ power to confect Eucharist
Lk 10:16 ~ power to speak w/Christ’s voice
Mt 18:18 ~ power to legislate
Mt 18:17 ~ power to discipline
Church is Infallible
Jn 16:13 ~ guided by HS in all truth
Jn 14:26 ~ HS teach/remind everything
Lk 10:16 ~ speak with Christ’s voice
1Tm 3:15 ~ Church pillar & foundation of truth
IJn 2:27 ~ annointing of HS remains in you
Act 15:28 ~ Apostles speak with voice of HS
Mt 28:20 ~ I am with you always
Church is Perpetual
Is 9:6-7 ~ of his gov’t there will be no end
Dan 2:44 ~ God’s kingdom stands forever
Dan 7:14 ~ his kingdom shall not be destroyed
Lk 1:32-33 ~ no end to Christ’s kingdom
Mt 7:24 ~ like wise man built house on rock
Mt 13:24-30
Mt 16:18 ~ gates of Hell will never prevail
Jn 14:16 ~ HS with you always
Mt 28:19-20 ~ I am with you all days
Apostolic Succession
2Chr 19:11 ~ hi priest over you in everything
Mal 2:7 ~ seek instruction from priests…
Eph 2:20 ~ built upon foundation of apostles
Eph 4:11 ~ Hiearchical leadership
1Cor 12:28-29 ~ God designated in church…
Acts 1:20 ~ let another take his office
Acts 1: 25-26 ~ Matthias selected
1Tim 3:18; 5:17 ~ bishops, priests & deacons
1Tim 4:14 ~ gift conferred by laying on hands
1Tim 5:22 ~ do not lay on hands too readily
Acts 14:23 ~ presbyters appointed
2Tim 2:2 ~ what heard from me entrust others
Tit 1:5 ~ appoint presbyters in every town
However, we do not always get the same treatment in return, as in Contender Ministries, who claim we are a cult;
“If we shied away from addressing the doctrines of Catholicism, simply because we may not be popular for doing so, we would be failing to carry out the Great Commission.”
contenderministries.org/catholicism.php
Check it out for yourselves. For a while they were posting Catholic responses to their claims, but have not done so for nearly a year. Maybe they think the matter is closed.
In my “travels” as an aspiring apologist, I have been thrown out of churches that I had been invited to visit when it was revealed to the pastor I was Catholic, been told that Catholics were going to hell, that nothing good EVER came out of the Church, and been called a heretic. I have even been verbally atacked on my beliefs by persons I considered close friends. I love my protestant brethren, they have taught me many worthwhile things, but sadly, I have found that there is an intolerant streak about them at times.
Check out these scriptures:
Church
Mt 16:18-19 ~ upon this rock I will build my Church
Mt 18:17-18 ~ if he refuses to listen even to the Church
Mt 28:18-20 ~ go baptize and teach all nations
Mk 16:16 ~ go to whole world proclaim gospel
Lk 10:16 ~ who listens to you, listens to me
Jn 14:16-26 ~ HS w/ you always, teach/remind everything
Jn 16:12 ~ Spirit of truth will guide you to all truth
1Tim 3:15 ~ Church is the pillar & foundation of truth
Church is Body of Christ
Col 1:18 ~ he is head of the body, the Church
1Cor 12:20-27 ~ you are Christ’s body, individual parts of it
Eph 5:30 ~ we are members of his body
Rom 12:4-5 ~ though many, we are one body in Christ
1Cor 6:15 ~ not know your bodies are members of Christ?
Church must be One
Jn 10:16 ~ there shall be one fold and one shepherd
Eph 4:3-6 ~ one Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God
Rom 16:17 ~ avoid those who create dissensions
1Cor1:10 ~ I urge that there be no divisions among you
Phil 2:2 ~ be same mind, united in heart, thinking one thing
Rom 5:15 ~ God grant you to think in harmony w/one another
Jn 17:17-23 ~ I pray they may be one, as we are one
Jn 17:23 ~ they be brought to perfection as one
1Cor12:13 ~ in one spirit baptized in one body
Rom 12:5 ~ tho many, one body in Christ
Eph 4:4 ~ one body one Spirit, called to hope
Col 3:15 ~ you were called in one body
Church is Apostolic
Jn 15:16 ~ chose special men
Jn 20:21 ~ gave them his own mission
Lk 22:30 ~ gave them a kingdom
Mt 16:18 ~ built Church upon Peter
Jn 10:16 ~ appointed one shepherd
Lk 22:32 ~ shepherd is Peter
Jn 21:17 ~ shepherd is Peter
Eph 4:11 ~ Hierchical leadership
1Tim 3:18; 5:17 ~ bishops, priests & deacons
Tit 1:5 ~ bishops to ordain priests
Church is Authoritative
Mt 28:18-20 ~ all power given to Apostles
Jn 20:23 ~ given power to forgive sins
1Cor 11:24 ~ power to confect Eucharist
Lk 10:16 ~ power to speak w/Christ’s voice
Mt 18:18 ~ power to legislate
Mt 18:17 ~ power to discipline
Church is Infallible
Jn 16:13 ~ guided by HS in all truth
Jn 14:26 ~ HS teach/remind everything
Lk 10:16 ~ speak with Christ’s voice
1Tm 3:15 ~ Church pillar & foundation of truth
IJn 2:27 ~ annointing of HS remains in you
Act 15:28 ~ Apostles speak with voice of HS
Mt 28:20 ~ I am with you always
Church is Perpetual
Is 9:6-7 ~ of his gov’t there will be no end
Dan 2:44 ~ God’s kingdom stands forever
Dan 7:14 ~ his kingdom shall not be destroyed
Lk 1:32-33 ~ no end to Christ’s kingdom
Mt 7:24 ~ like wise man built house on rock
Mt 13:24-30
Mt 16:18 ~ gates of Hell will never prevail
Jn 14:16 ~ HS with you always
Mt 28:19-20 ~ I am with you all days
Apostolic Succession
2Chr 19:11 ~ hi priest over you in everything
Mal 2:7 ~ seek instruction from priests…
Eph 2:20 ~ built upon foundation of apostles
Eph 4:11 ~ Hiearchical leadership
1Cor 12:28-29 ~ God designated in church…
Acts 1:20 ~ let another take his office
Acts 1: 25-26 ~ Matthias selected
1Tim 3:18; 5:17 ~ bishops, priests & deacons
1Tim 4:14 ~ gift conferred by laying on hands
1Tim 5:22 ~ do not lay on hands too readily
Acts 14:23 ~ presbyters appointed
2Tim 2:2 ~ what heard from me entrust others
Tit 1:5 ~ appoint presbyters in every town
A
Alfie
Guest
Thanks for the link. Their article about the eucharist was awesome.
D
deb1
Guest
Alfie, The article that you think was awesome contained this quote:
Among the aberrant Catholic sacraments and doctrines, one of the least understood is that of the Eucharist and transubstantiation. While analogous to communion in many ways, it is also worlds apart, separated by a gulf of heresy
It is one thing to disagree with transubstantiation but to call it aberrant and a heresy is just plain offensive.
As far as the original question. I think that we do have problems with the occasional poster being somewhat mocking of the Protestant side. The moderators do a good job and I think that people who are rude eventually either get suspended or their behavior gets pointed out to them by others on the various threads.
S
swnunley
Guest
Really? What is your authority for your interpretation? What do you do with these scriptures?
Eucharist
Ex 12:8,46 ~ Paschal sacrifice required to be eaten
Ps 27:2, Is 9:18-20, Is 49:26, Mic 3:3
Mt 16:5-12 ~ talking symbolically about food
Mt 26:26ff ~ institution of Eucharist by Christ
Jn 1:29 ~ Jesus is “Lamb of God”
Jn 4:31-34 ~ talking symbolically about food
Jn 6:35-71 ~ I am the Bread of Life…
1Cor 2:14;3:4 ~ what God means by “flesh”
1Cor 5:7 ~ paschal lamb who was sacrificed
1Cor 11:23-29 ~ receive unworthily = guilt of the Body and Blood
1Cor 12:28-29 ~ participation in Body & Blood
Rv 17:6, 16 ~ symbolical eat/drink body/blood
The article that you thought was so “great” is full of lies and twisting of Church teachings and scripture; they claim we take scripture out of context, yet they themselves are the very ones guilty of that; they claim we rewrite history, yet it is they who revise history to suit their doctrines.
I challenge anyone to show me any writings of the early church fathers in the 1st 800 years of the Church that can prove that the doctrine of the Eucharist “evolved”. They also claim that Catholics “shy away” from claiming to worship Christ in the presence of the Eucharist when they meet up with a “bible christian”, because the Catholic “knows” it’s “wrong” and “idol worship”. I proudly proclaim to ANYONE that I do indeed worship Christ in the Eucharist, because I believe it when Jesus said “This is my body…”.
I challenge you to study those scriptures and come up with a logical, theological argument that the Eucharist is anything other than what the Church teaches it to be. My guess is that you won’t be able to…
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