Are we doing enough to end abortion?

[Viki63]

“In keeping silent about evil, in burying it so deep within us that no sign of it appears on the surface, we are implanting it, and it will rise up a thousand fold in the future. When we neither punish nor reproach evildoers, we are not simply protecting their trivial old age, we are thereby ripping the foundations of justice from beneath new generations.”

― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago 1918-1956

What more can we do?

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[Mavzylor]

I think that besides pushing for legislation that will outlaw abortion, we should push for legislation that will highlight the alternatives. For example, the adoption process could use some reform. If there are clear, simpler alternatives, then abortion will be unthinkable, and only once it is unthinkable will it truly end. Even if abortion were made illegal today, it certainly would not end.

 

[randomuser]

What more can we do?

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Help lower delivery costs. It’s obscene how much $$$ hospitals, doctors and insurance companies gouge families who choose life.

And stop accusing those who want lower delivery costs of somehow bolstering a pro-murder talking point. (The people who want to kill babies also want lower delivery costs? Really?)

 

[Blessedwithfive]

I don’t think the law will/should ever change. We need to change attitudes and hearts. Just because it is legal doesn’t make it moral. I think we are focusing on the wrong thing by trying to change the law…we need to change mindsets.

 

[ATraveller]

I don’t think the law will/should ever change. We need to change attitudes and hearts. Just because it is legal doesn’t make it moral. I think we are focusing on the wrong thing by trying to change the law…we need to change mindsets.

I disagree about the law part but the change in attitudes is vital because all the things done at the state-level in the US can easily be undone in the event of a shift in attitudes.
I would add a shift in attitudes on abortion itself isn’t sufficient. It has to go further. The first thing is to get rid of the notion that sex doesn’t produce babies. It can even when contraception is used. In fact,

One in four women who had an abortion in 2016 were using the most reliable methods of contraception, says the British Pregnancy Advisory Service.
More than 14,000 women …] became pregnant despite using the pill or a long-acting contraceptive.

More disturbing is this (it makes you wonder what the motives are):

Ann Furedi, chief executive of BPAS, said: …]Family planning is contraception and abortion.
“Abortion is birth control that women need when their regular method lets them down.”

bbc.com/news/health-40520235

The next thing is to teach men to control themselves. We need to stop teaching young people men have no self-control and only women are gatekeepers. Both are responsible.
Men need to be held accountable. A higher percentage of men than women support abortion (gallup.com/poll/137357/four-moral-issues-sharply-divide-americans.aspx). In many cases, men (and their families) pressure women to have abortions because they fear their bank accounts will have less money. Many women are intimidated by these men and their families.
Another is to teach women romantic love is not only sex. There’s a lot more. Good men won’t pressure them into sex.
A change in how society view children needs to occur. Children were seen as blessings, now they’re burdens. Related to this is the need to abandon the religion of consumerism. Children = no luxury car for me or designer clothes. Children don’t need designer clothes. They won’t appreciate them and it’s only for selfish parents to flaunt their wealth to their peers.
There are probably more but these are good places to start.

 

[DignumEtJustum]

Certainly not. 22% of the US’s population is Catholic. If the hierarchy had banded everyone together at the right time abortion would not have been able to move forward had every Catholic put their foot down on the matter, along with everyone else who knows it’s wrong. You’ll notice they STILL don’t take up any collections for pro-life causes!? I’m afraid they blew it on that one and now some self-described “Catholics” find abortion acceptable. Now, as Archbishop Sheen predicted, our nature as humans has undoubtedly changed as a result over these 45 years, at least among the secular population, to the point where something so absolutely abominable and which Nazis were tried and hung for is normalized in our society today. Still though even today, if everyone who knows it’s wrong were to stand up and protest with the same veracity and mentality as often employed the mobs on the left, abortion would certainly be eradicated. The argument that it’s a “women’s health issue” is only true about 50% of the time, when they happen to be ending the life of what would have been born a baby girl.

 

[PassingSoul]

I don’t think the law will/should ever change. We need to change attitudes and hearts. Just because it is legal doesn’t make it moral. I think we are focusing on the wrong thing by trying to change the law…we need to change mindsets.

I agree it takes a change of mindset. There are thousands of Children now with Abortion being legal waiting to be adopted. Being sent to a Foster Home is rolling the dice, some are good and some are horrible. It’s easy for Politicians to mouth the words I’m Pro-Life but then won’t support the cost necessary to eliminate abortion. As a nation are we ready to raise taxes for Health Care, Child Care, Food Assistance, Orphanages, Special Education, Social Services, and yes Welfare.

 

[Mavzylor]

I don’t think the law will/should ever change. We need to change attitudes and hearts. Just because it is legal doesn’t make it moral. I think we are focusing on the wrong thing by trying to change the law…we need to change mindsets.

This is the most dangerous mindset to have second to actually being pro-choice. There are a lot of immoral things that are legal today: getting drunk, getting high, porn, strip-clubs, same-sex marriage, hoarding money… These things have been legal for so long, and they will never go away, mostly because they don’t directly harm other individuals. Abortion is MURDER. Murder already is illegal, because it directly harms another individual. The whole point of the law is to allow people to work together in a society without constantly worrying that they will be harmed by those around them. If people stop worrying about the legality of abortion, we will have as many people getting abortions as there are people watching porn. Porn is horrible for the individual, but it is not killing babies.

So saying, “I don’t think the law will/should ever change”, is a very horrible perspective in regards to being pro-life. However, you are right that the culture needs to change. Changing the culture will only help change the law, and changing the law without worrying about the culture is not good enough.

 

[Mavzylor]

Since the Pope is the successor of St. Peter and the Bishops of the Apostles they are responsible for and should be able to end abortion all by themselves.

No Pope, not even St. Peter, has ever ended any evil all by themselves. In fact, the only place evil has never, and will never exist, is in Heaven. We are all responsible for doing all that we can to get as many people as we can to Heaven. We are just as responsible for changing the minds and hearts of others as the Pope. The Pope is responsible for making sure the God’s teachings are clear, and the church’s teaching remains clear on abortion.

Whoever could imagine a Catholic Church where abortion is sidelined as once-in-a-while talking point that we have now?

You have to understand that while abortion is a terrible evil, there are many terrible evils in the world. I often hear people say the same thing about the beheading of Christians by Isis. Nothing is side-lined. There is just a lot to attend to, and the Church’s main priority is teaching God’s Word. It is really up to us, the lay-people, to carry out God’s Word.

 

[mikekle]

You have to understand that while abortion is a terrible evil, there are many terrible evils in the world. I often hear people say the same thing about the beheading of Christians by Isis. Nothing is side-lined. There is just a lot to attend to, and the Church’s main priority is teaching God’s Word. It is really up to us, the lay-people, to carry out God’s Word.

I too have heard many many people go on about how upset they were with the ISIS beheadings, some people at my parish were saying how they would like the ones responsible to die in some terrible ways, look at online comments about this incident and you will also see lots of people desiring extreme violence as revenge for the beheadings…so it seems violence and even extreme violent retribution is acceptable in some cases, so why would those same people be against violence to stop abortion?

They clearly know right from wrong, and according to how they feel about the ISIS beheaders, they seem to be fine with using violence in response, so what is the difference…why would violence be an acceptable response in one case, yet in another, especially since its the killing of unborn babies, its totally frowned upon to even suggest violence…?

 

[Mavzylor]

I think that a lot of the indifference stems from hopelessness. Who wants to acknowledge that 60 million children have been killed and there is nothing we can do about it? Who wants to acknowledge that 3,000 children will continue to be killed every day, and there is very little we can do about it? If parents were line up at a building with their born children in hand, taking them to receive lethal injections that is something we could physically fight. We could take those children away and physically protect those children. When people have to just stand outside a clinic with signs and watch children marched to their death it is understandably disheartening.

What are we to do? We can look at what it took to end the Holocaust. It took a war. People broke the law and fought back, killing others to defend themselves. People broke the law, and gave safe harbor to Jews. What can we do when the safest place for the victims is right where they are inside the ones seeking to murder them?

I think ending abortion warrants a lot more action than civil rights movements like ending segregation, and yet we can’t do anything more. Even in ending segregation, the victims could stand up for themselves and speak, and could be physically protected by allies. This fight is so unfair, it is the hardest battle the world may ever see. I can’t blame those that aren’t strong enough to fight.

 

[Mavzylor]

I too have heard many many people go on about how upset they were with the ISIS beheadings, some people at my parish were saying how they would like the ones responsible to die in some terrible ways, look at online comments about this incident and you will also see lots of people desiring extreme violence as revenge for the beheadings…so it seems violence and even extreme violent retribution is acceptable in some cases, so why would those same people be against violence to stop abortion?

They clearly know right from wrong, and according to how they feel about the ISIS beheaders, they seem to be fine with using violence in response, so what is the difference…why would violence be an acceptable response in one case, yet in another, especially since its the killing of unborn babies, its totally frowned upon to even suggest violence…?

These people are Republican before Catholic. The Republican party is sympathetic to Christianity, so unfortunately a lot of Christians lose their religion to Republicanism. Despite what they hear from a party that is sympathetic towards our religion, they shouldn’t listen to that party over our religion. Revenge IS wrong. Wishing death on another IS wrong. Wishing torture and any kind of evil on another IS wrong.

Wanting others to be protected is NOT wrong. Defending others from persecution is NOT wrong. Killing an aggressor in self-defense is NOT wrong. There is a line that can not be crossed. As far as the difference between stopping beheadings and abortions, there is no difference in what should be done, but unfortunately I think there is a difference in what can be done. See my last post.

 

[SuperLuigi]

I think that besides pushing for legislation that will outlaw abortion, we should push for legislation that will highlight the alternatives. For example, the adoption process could use some reform. If there are clear, simpler alternatives, then abortion will be unthinkable, and only once it is unthinkable will it truly end. Even if abortion were made illegal today, it certainly would not end.

Rape, theft, murder and child porn are all illegal but still happen. What do you think would happen if we made them legal?

 

[SuperLuigi]

These people are Republican before Catholic. The Republican party is sympathetic to Christianity, so unfortunately a lot of Christians lose their religion to Republicanism. Despite what they hear from a party that is sympathetic towards our religion, they shouldn’t listen to that party over our religion. Revenge IS wrong. Wishing death on another IS wrong. Wishing torture and any kind of evil on another IS wrong.

Wanting others to be protected is NOT wrong. Defending others from persecution is NOT wrong. Killing an aggressor in self-defense is NOT wrong. There is a line that can not be crossed. As far as the difference between stopping beheadings and abortions, there is no difference in what should be done, but unfortunately I think there is a difference in what can be done. See my last post.

Actually, a lot of Christians are upset with the GOP.

 

[Mavzylor]

Rape, theft, murder and child porn are all illegal but still happen. What do you think would happen if we made them legal?

I think you have missed a key component of my statement. I must emphasize that I said besides,which means “in addition to”, not instead.

 

[Mavzylor]

Actually, a lot of Christians are upset with the GOP.

Why is this relevant to what I said? Nowhere did I say, “All Christians love and support everything about the GOP.”

I think you need to practice reading within context.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Why is this relevant to what I said? Nowhere did I say, “All Christians love and support everything about the GOP.”

I think you need to practice reading within context.

“These people are Republican before Catholic”

That was the original comment.

Which BTW is almost always FALSE.

 

[Mavzylor]

“These people are Republican before Catholic”

That was the original comment.

Which BTW is almost always FALSE.

I said, “these people” referring to people in particular, not all Republicans. Read the post that I was replying to. In context to the statement I was replying to, it is in fact true that “these people” are Republican before Catholic, by choosing to pursue their political views which conflict with Catholic teachings. Now, please stop derailing the focus from abortion.

 

[Mavzylor]

My point was to address the violent, vengeful, sinful words voiced towards ISIS and not towards abortionists. In neither case is it okay, in both cases killing in self defense is warranted, but in the case of abortion not really possible. If you need further clarification on my remarks, feel free to message me.

 

[Viki63]

Yes abortion is treated as a small sub category of the Faith as shown by this forum structure from a nationally recognized Catholic voice.

I think this is somewhat harsh, although I’m not too sure what you mean by forum structure. Many people are reading, not everyone is commenting. Many people don’t know what to say. Many are discouraged.

We need to pray more, get out to abortion clinics more.
If we were as active against abortion as, for example, dog rescue organizations were in rescuing dogs, it might have more effect.

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