Are we ENTIRELY other than or different from G-d?

[meltzerboy]

I realize the monotheistic faiths of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam do not believe in pantheism. However, they do believe we are created in the image and likeness of G-d, which I think means we share, albeit dimly and imperfectly, the redeeming inner qualities of love, kindness, and mercy, of which G-d is the eternal and ultimate essence. Would this mean we are NOT entirely different from G-d with respect to His internal essence if not His spiritual and divine nature? If so, in what sense are we entitled to make the claim that our humanity reflects G-d’s divinity since Christianity believes G-d had to empty Himself of His divinity to become human, and all three major Western religions–Christianity, Judaism, and Islam–believe the ways of G-d are completely different from our own? OTOH, if we do NOT share (imperfectly) in G-d’s divine spark, how can we ever hope to communicate with and understand G-d and how He expects us to lead our lives in relation to Him and each other?

 

[Linusthe2nd]

I realize the monotheistic faiths of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam do not believe in pantheism. However, they do believe we are created in the image and likeness of G-d, which I think means we share, albeit dimly and imperfectly, the redeeming inner qualities of love, kindness, and mercy, of which G-d is the eternal and ultimate essence. Would this mean we are NOT entirely different from G-d with respect to His internal essence if not His spiritual and divine nature? If so, in what sense are we entitled to make the claim that our humanity reflects G-d’s divinity since Christianity believes G-d had to empty Himself of His divinity to become human, and all three major Western religions–Christianity, Judaism, and Islam–believe the ways of G-d are completely different from our own? OTOH, if we do NOT share (imperfectly) in G-d’s divine spark, how can we ever hope to communicate with and understand G-d and how He expects us to lead our lives in relation to Him and each other?

From your own Faith in God’s revelation to His People Israel, you know that we are absolutley other than God. Since he created us, we necessarily reflect the Goodness which is His Essence. Because He created us, it stands to reason that He has a Plan for us, which is eventual Union with Him. The history of Israel reveals His concern that we should live according to His Commandments, which essentially entail total love for Him and for our fellow men and women. God revealed to Israel that He is Faithful, so if we live so as to Love Him with our whole heart, mind and body and our neighbor as ourselves, He will be Faithful to love us to the end.

Does that help?

P.S. Here is the Pope’s new Encyclical on Faith which may help more than anything I could say. Much of it is based on the history of Israel, so it is not just for Catholics.
vatican.va/holy_father/francesco/encyclicals/documents/papa-francesco_20130629_enciclica-lumen-fidei_en.html

Linus2nd

 

[1AugustSon7]

I realize the monotheistic faiths of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam do not believe in pantheism. However, they do believe we are created in the image and likeness of G-d, which I think means we share, albeit dimly and imperfectly, the redeeming inner qualities of love, kindness, and mercy, of which G-d is the eternal and ultimate essence. Would this mean we are NOT entirely different from G-d with respect to His internal essence if not His spiritual and divine nature?

I would think, meltzer, that the important word from the Torah here is image (or so it is usually translated for us). I think that -to draw an analogy (as seems necessary when comparing the divine to the human, the infinite to the finite)- that we “reflect” God in the sense that a pool of water reflects our own human (bodily) image: the image in the water can be by no means substantially or essentially identified with the individual whose reflection it is. Further, even that (reflection) can be muddied or distorted, such as sin likewise distorts our own limited or finite reflection of God. Thus, just as there is an impassable barrier or difference between my (or your) essence (or what I [or you] substatially are) and my (or your) reflection in the water, so likewise there is such a difference between the Creator and the creature (though certainly even grander). Hence, I believe it is written that we are made in the image and likeness of the Almighty.

Also, I am not too sure if God has an “internal” essence: I think He is such that concepts like ‘internal’ or ‘external’ can’t really apply to Him; but perhaps I am wrong and they could be but, again, in a strictly analogous way: such as when someone might speak of God’s own “inner life.”

Peace be with you.

 

[Vouthon]

Dear Meltzer

Here is my view of the matter.

God is both Immanent and Transcendent. He is the Unknowable, Unrealizable, Unfathomable Essence above and beyond all created objects and intelligences. Equally, without contradicting this, He is omnipresent throughout his creation which lives, moves and has its being in Him and from Him everything comes into existence.

God is nowhere more present, in this way, than in His earthly Image which is the human “ground” of being, the spiritual intellect or “nous” otherwise known as the eye of the heart. This is an unfathomable depth almost as deep as God Himself. It is a mirror wherein shines the full splendour and majesty of God. It has complete and unfailing awareness of God: eye to eye, mirror to mirror, image to image.

This union with God in our “ground” is within every human person. We can become aware of this innate, intuitive oneness with God through purifying ourselves from senses attachments and disturbing thoughts, impelled by God’s grace. It is like gold purified from dross in a furnace. As the dross is removed by the flames, the resplendent beauty is revealed. Abba Evagrius and the Syrian mystics say that the soul henceforth sees its “own light” which is like “sapphire” reflecting God perfectly.

This is made even more apparent by the doctrine of exemplarism. This holds that all creatures, indeed the entire universe in all its varied forms, pre-existed in God from all eternity as “ideas” in the Divine Mind before and beyond their creation in time.

Through supernatural, infused contemplation - *unmerited on our part, as opposed to the natural contemplation just described whereby we come through effort aided by grace to see our own natural union with God *- we are elevated beyond our natural state and made one with the “Eternal Idea” that God has of us and we therefore “behold that which we are” and “are the Light by which we see” (Ruysbroeck). This is known as our “super-essence” because it is essential to God alone.

In this manner all creatures beyond themselves were one essence with God before their creation in time. God knew us in Himself before creating us and so we have and are a being in God before our creation in time. Even St. Thomas Aquinas conceded this. In his Summa Theologica Part 1, Q. 18 he states:

There are two ways in which creatures are said to exist in God.

In the first way, they exist in God insofar as they are contained in and conserved by God’s power, just as we say that we ‘have it in us’ when something is within our power. And so creatures are said to exist in God even insofar as they exist in their proper natures.

And this is the way to understand the words of the Apostle when he says, “In Him we live and move and have our being.” For our life, and our being, and our movement are all caused by God.

In the second way, things are said to exist in God as in a knower. And in this sense they exist in God through their proper conceptions (rationes), which in God are nothing other than the divine essence. Hence, insofar as they exist in God in this way, they are the divine essence. And since God’s essence is life but not movement, it follows that, in this manner of speaking, things are the life in God, but they are not the movement in Him

We do not perceive only our own natural beauty and oneness with God but rather we transcend ourselves entirely and rest in the embrace of the Holy Trinity.

In the state of transforming union, we become aware both of our eternal being in God as idea and our created being in time as an independent creature.

We will simultaneously always be aware of both. We will never “wholly” pass beyond our creaturely state or else God would not be a personal Beloved, we would rather be annihilated in the Divine Essence. God granted us an independent existence from Him by creating our human soul in time. This was so that we could freely love and turn to Him. God will never revoke the gift of existence that He gave us.

Nor however will we ever be “fully” creature again, for we will have been penetrated through with God and become God by grace, as we always were from all eternity in God’s Mind as idea.

 

[Robert_Sock]

We are like God only in respect to our soul being spiritual. Other than that, our soul cannot begin to fathom God. According to the Tanya, if we were to see God face-to-face, our entire being would be reduced to utter nothingness; nothing exists outside of God.

G-d transcends all definitions, including the definition, “existence”
– Maimonides

 

[StrawberryJam]

I realize the monotheistic faiths of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam do not believe in pantheism. However, they do believe we are created in the image and likeness of G-d, which I think means we share, albeit dimly and imperfectly, the redeeming inner qualities of love, kindness, and mercy, of which G-d is the eternal and ultimate essence. Would this mean we are NOT entirely different from G-d with respect to His internal essence if not His spiritual and divine nature? If so, in what sense are we entitled to make the claim that our humanity reflects G-d’s divinity since Christianity believes G-d had to empty Himself of His divinity to become human, and all three major Western religions–Christianity, Judaism, and Islam–believe the ways of G-d are completely different from our own? OTOH, if we do NOT share (imperfectly) in G-d’s divine spark, how can we ever hope to communicate with and understand G-d and how He expects us to lead our lives in relation to Him and each other?

Do believers in any of the monotheistic faiths believe we share qualities with what the christians call Satan?

 

[Ion]

 

[StrawberryJam]

Any of the monotheists care to comment?

 

[tonyrey]

Dear Meltzer

Here is my view of the matter.

God is both Immanent and Transcendent. He is the Unknowable, Unrealizable, Unfathomable Essence above and beyond all created objects and intelligences. Equally, without contradicting this, He is omnipresent throughout his creation which lives, moves and has its being in Him and from Him everything comes into existence.

God is nowhere more present, in this way, than in His earthly Image which is the human “ground” of being, the spiritual intellect or “nous” otherwise known as the eye of the heart. This is an unfathomable depth almost as deep as God Himself. It is a mirror wherein shines the full splendour and majesty of God. It has complete and unfailing awareness of God: eye to eye, mirror to mirror, image to image.

This union with God in our “ground” is within every human person. We can become aware of this innate, intuitive oneness with God through purifying ourselves from senses attachments and disturbing thoughts, impelled by God’s grace. It is like gold purified from dross in a furnace. As the dross is removed by the flames, the resplendent beauty is revealed. Abba Evagrius and the Syrian mystics say that the soul henceforth sees its “own light” which is like “sapphire” reflecting God perfectly.

This is made even more apparent by the doctrine of exemplarism. This holds that all creatures, indeed the entire universe in all its varied forms, pre-existed in God from all eternity as “ideas” in the Divine Mind before and beyond their creation in time.

Through supernatural, infused contemplation - *unmerited on our part, as opposed to the natural contemplation just described whereby we come through effort aided by grace to see our own natural union with God *- we are elevated beyond our natural state and made one with the “Eternal Idea” that God has of us and we therefore “behold that which we are” and “are the Light by which we see” (Ruysbroeck). This is known as our “super-essence” because it is essential to God alone.

In this manner all creatures beyond themselves were one essence with God before their creation in time. God knew us in Himself before creating us and so we have and are a being in God before our creation in time. Even St. Thomas Aquinas conceded this. In his Summa Theologica Part 1, Q. 18 he states:

We do not perceive only our own natural beauty and oneness with God but rather we transcend ourselves entirely and rest in the embrace of the Holy Trinity.

In the state of transforming union, we become aware both of our eternal being in God as idea and our created being in time as an independent creature.

We will simultaneously always be aware of both. We will never “wholly” pass beyond our creaturely state or else God would not be a personal Beloved, we would rather be annihilated in the Divine Essence. God granted us an independent existence from Him by creating our human soul in time. This was so that we could freely love and turn to Him. God will never revoke the gift of existence that He gave us.

Nor however will we ever be “fully” creature again, for we will have been penetrated through with God and become God by grace, as we always were from all eternity in God’s Mind as idea.

:clapping: A superb post!