Are we expected to have kids right away?

[mschrank]

My Fiancee and I are getting married in november. We’re both traditional Catholics who don’t agree with artifical birth control.

We want to use NFP, but that takes some planning and time to work out.

On our wedding night, when we consumate the marriage, I guess are we just expected to conceieve right away and have a child within our first year together?

Is there anything, within the bounds of Orthodoxy we can do? I can’t imagine there is, as NFP techniques take planning. It’s hard to plan a wedding around when a woman isn’t supposed to be fertile, but even that seems wrong to me.

This might sound like a REALLY stupid question but I would really like to know.

So for traditional Catholics, I guess it’s kids right away right?

 

[johnnyjoe]

Well, having children “right away” is not really your choice. I know we believe we can “have” children, but the reality is that the Holy Spirit is the Lord and Giver of Life, so we may do all the things we expect to achieve a pregnancy, but it is God who grants that LIFE.

That being said, you should “expect” that when you have marital relations, God can bring a child to you as a gift. Every marital act will have that “risk” (I hate that word…) associated with it. That is what being a "traditional Catholic’ means - an openness to LIFE at all times.

Now, you can and should learn NFP before you get married. Not to close yourself to life, but as part of a prudent effort to know what to expect when you engage in the marital act.

My wife and I teach NFP for the Couple to Couple League, and we have taught a great number of engaged couples with questions like yours.

On the one hand, if you are getting married and not prepared to have children, then perhaps you aren’t really ready to get married. On the other hand, there are many factors that come into play for a young couple that may - in all due seriousness and proper prudence - call for some postponing of pregnancy. That can be achieved with the proper practice of NFP and some virtueous sexual self-possesion on your part.

In general, I will say that marriage is for children, and having children should happen early in marriage. It is the most important glue that binds a young relationship, and it is God’s plan to shape us into what He wants us to be. We think we “have” children, when in reality God gives them to us as the tools that shape the clay of our souls.

 

[mschrank]

Thanks for your reply.

I was not raised Catholic nor (aside from my lady who is also a convert) have any Catholic friends so I was confused on this issue.

We are ready to have kids, you’re right, otherwise we wouldn’t be getting married. We’re in our mid twenties and fairly well formed and committed to our faith.

I was just a little worried that having kids early could be bad, because you know, that’s what everyone says. Everyone tells me “wait five years” or “don’t go having kids right away, get to know each other first”.

Why do you say it is a glue? Just wondering.

 

[MyLittleFlowers]

I was just a little worried that having kids early could be bad, because you know, that’s what everyone says. Everyone tells me “wait five years” or “don’t go having kids right away, get to know each other first”.

That’s silly. First of all, you’ll never get to know someone better and faster than when you’re both up at 2 a.m. with a screaming baby. My dh and I had a “honeymoon baby” and we have a wonderful marriage. Sadly, so many people in our society see children as a burden instead of the gifts they truly are.

That said, if you don’t think you will be ready for kids right away, get into some NFP classes now. November is 10 months away, which should give you plenty of time to get the NFP figured out.

Yes, if you don’t want to get pregnant right away, that may mean abstaining on your wedding night–if that’s your fertile time. But marriage is about sacrifice, and if you practice NFP, there will be other times that you may decide that this kind of sacrifice is necessary. And the alternative, being open to the gift of children on your wedding night, really is not a bad thing!

Happy nuptuals!

 

[hasikelee]

Hey, I went through that question a little while ago. I had friends and family (catholics!) telling me it was a-okay to just get married and try not to have kids for awhile.

I worked though the issue and concluded that it is okay to want to space or delay children early in the marriage, but what you have to keep an eye on is what that means.

Do you mean that you want to “ideally” have a child at this time, but you are willing to accept a child on your wedding night, if so be?

Because if you are, then that is remaining open to Christ’s will and to life in the marital embrace. You simply practice NFP to be in sync with your bodies, then leave the rest up to God. And what happens is what you are willing to accept from Him.

But if you honestly don’t want a child right when you get married, that is not even giving your wedding vows time to stop echoing!

I have often wondered if a couple standing at the altar says “yes” to being open to children, all the while making sure they’re not…would that mean the marriage is invalid?

 

[Bobby_Jim]

My advice: if you really don’t want a child, or have a really good reason to wait for a long time, then don’t get married yet. Otherwise, I think the benefits of waiting a while are a bit overrated.

My wife & I wanted to wait a little while, like maybe 9-12 months, and we practiced NFP with that intent. However, God had other plans, and we conceived our daughter after 5 months. In retrospect, it was perfect timing, really. At that particular time, that particular egg & sperm united to form a perfect little baby girl. And we can’t possibly argue with that - she has been such a blessing in our lives. A major life change, yes, but one that you will go through eventually anyway. And with a baby, you get nine months to get used the idea before you actually meet him or her.

When you go to the beach, you can stand there forever, sticking your toe in the water but afraid that it’s going to be too cold, or you can jump right in and be about your business. If you keep waiting until you’re sure you’re ready, you will wait forever.

 

[mschrank]

Are people not reading my second post?

I mean, I appreciate the good intentions but I did say that we were open to life. We’d prefer to wait a little while, until things are more settled, BUT, if it happens, it happens…

?

 

[hasikelee]

Are people not reading my second post?

I mean, I appreciate the good intentions but I did say that we were open to life. We’d prefer to wait a little while, until things are more settled, BUT, if it happens, it happens…

?

I didn’t see it, but I’m glad to hear it! I know some cases when the couple is asking this question, it is because they have good reason not to have a child.

Of course, that always seems a bit depressing to me because then you have to say, “delay the wedding.”

Even if they want to use contraception, that still wouldn’t be foolproof, so it always seems the best way is to simply not get married until they are really ready to be married.

With the things going on in my life, now the date for my wedding is such that when we get married I can’t wait to have children. If we had kept our original date, we would have both hoped for a waiting period. It is a very different attitude, very stress-free.

 

[mschrank]

When is your wedding date? Ours is November 10th!

 

[johnnyjoe]

Thanks for your reply.

I was not raised Catholic nor (aside from my lady who is also a convert) have any Catholic friends so I was confused on this issue.

I have to say that is truly amazing! Praise God you found His Church, but my curiosity is greatly peaked! What made you think of boarding the Barque of Peter? Were you raised close to the faith?

We are ready to have kids, you’re right, otherwise we wouldn’t be getting married. We’re in our mid twenties and fairly well formed and committed to our faith.

I was just a little worried that having kids early could be bad, because you know, that’s what everyone says. Everyone tells me “wait five years” or “don’t go having kids right away, get to know each other first”.

Why do you say it is a glue? Just wondering.

We have 5 children. 2 pre-conversion, and 3 post. Now my wife was a convert and I am a “revert”, so the conversion we had was not quite as dramatic, but it did move our hearts away from contraception and into NFP use, and ultimately into teaching. Looking back on 23 years of marriage, the children have “glued” our disperate parts together. My faults were/are countered by my wife’s gifts, and to a lesser extent, I do the same for her. Chidren will do more to keep you honest with yourself and with each other, and that honest turning to the “other” - that gift of self - is the real path blazer to heaven.

There is not greater school for heaven than the family. We get the priviledge of participating in Creation and a very small and joyful way, and with that, we get to carry the cross Christ offers us through our children. It is the sweetest of sufferings - mixed with unimaginable heart expanding joy and true anguish as you worry and parent another soul.

As I have said many times… God gives us children to teach us how He wants us to be… to take us to school in the realities of authentic, self-giving Love - the very Love He Gave to Us from the Cross.

I am so grateful for your conversion, and for your openness to life!

I will close with small story. There was a couple who wrote in the Couple to Couple League magazine, Family Foundations, about how they were faced with a similar question on their wedding night. She was charting and was smack dab in the fertile time on the honeymoon. Money was going to be tight, but they decided to trust God and consumate their marriage. God granted them the gift of a son from that time, and at the time of their writing in the magazine, had not conceived of another child in 9 years.

We don’t really know what God has in mind, so being open is all we can really do. When the serious reason comes along, and it may well… it did for us, then you can be confident that modern NFP is safe and effective. and the Church fully supports is prudent use.

I will pray for your nuptials! I am so jealous… we contracepted for 13 years of marriage before we saw the light. You have been given a great gift…

 

[mschrank]

Hey Johnny,

Hmm, it’s a long story for us. My parents were sort of non-denominational. She was baptized Catholic but never raised with any religion (weird family story). We both began to realize the importance of faith in college, and we just met last summer!

So then, it’s normal for a lady to be tracking her fertility before the marriage? I just thought, haha, well, it’s be inappropriate to say… “so, how is your ovulation going? what about the mucus” when you’re not married yet, haha, you know what I mean!?!

She’s a virgin and I’m not, but I may as well be one, I am very sheepish about this kind of thing now in regards to her!

 

[Veritas41]

I have to say that is truly amazing! Praise God you found His Church, but my curiosity is greatly peaked! What made you think of boarding the Barque of Peter? Were you raised close to the faith?

We have 5 children. 2 pre-conversion, and 3 post. Now my wife was a convert and I am a “revert”, so the conversion we had was not quite as dramatic, but it did move our hearts away from contraception and into NFP use, and ultimately into teaching. Looking back on 23 years of marriage, the children have “glued” our disperate parts together. My faults were/are countered by my wife’s gifts, and to a lesser extent, I do the same for her. Chidren will do more to keep you honest with yourself and with each other, and that honest turning to the “other” - that gift of self - is the real path blazer to heaven.

There is not greater school for heaven than the family. We get the priviledge of participating in Creation and a very small and joyful way, and with that, we get to carry the cross Christ offers us through our children. It is the sweetest of sufferings - mixed with unimaginable heart expanding joy and true anguish as you worry and parent another soul.

As I have said many times… God gives us children to teach us how He wants us to be… to take us to school in the realities of authentic, self-giving Love - the very Love He Gave to Us from the Cross.

I am so grateful for your conversion, and for your openness to life!

I will close with small story. There was a couple who wrote in the Couple to Couple League magazine, Family Foundations, about how they were faced with a similar question on their wedding night. She was charting and was smack dab in the fertile time on the honeymoon. Money was going to be tight, but they decided to trust God and consumate their marriage. God granted them the gift of a son from that time, and at the time of their writing in the magazine, had not conceived of another child in 9 years.

We don’t really know what God has in mind, so being open is all we can really do. When the serious reason comes along, and it may well… it did for us, then you can be confident that modern NFP is safe and effective. and the Church fully supports is prudent use.

I will pray for your nuptials! I am so jealous… we contracepted for 13 years of marriage before we saw the light. You have been given a great gift…

Great post:thumbsup:

 

[Corki]

So then, it’s normal for a lady to be tracking her fertility before the marriage? I just thought, haha, well, it’s be inappropriate to say… “so, how is your ovulation going? what about the mucus” when you’re not married yet, haha, you know what I mean!?!

She’s a virgin and I’m not, but I may as well be one, I am very sheepish about this kind of thing now in regards to her!

Yes, it is normal. Many diocese are now requiring NFP classes as part of marriage prep and, IMHO, even if a couple never wants to delay pregnancy, getting to know the signs of fertility is a very good thing. The sooner after the classes she starts practicing charting and tracking the easier since it is “fresh”. That being said, many couples hold off on sharing the delicate details with each other until they are enjoying the intimacy of marriage.

 

[cynic]

What is wrong with wanting to spend some time togethor before the life changing responsibility of children - like for example a year? Once you have children the focus goes off each other and onto the child, which is fair enough, but I get the distinct impression that Catholics actually will this because children are a good way to force a couple to stop ‘selfishly’ enjoying each others company - as if there’s something wrong with that - and get on to the real business.

 

[1ke]

My Fiancee and I are getting married in november. We’re both traditional Catholics who don’t agree with artifical birth control.

I don’t really know what you mean by “traditional” Catholics as ALL Catholics should embrace church teaching that contraception is intrinsically evil.

We want to use NFP, but that takes some planning and time to work out.

Take NFP class starting at least 4 months before your marriage. Your fiancee can chart and will know how to interpret her fertility signs. By the time your wedding comes, you should have no problem with NFP should you need it.

On our wedding night, when we consumate the marriage, I guess are we just expected to conceieve right away and have a child within our first year together?

The Church has no such expectation of conceiving right away or having a child in the first year together. Wherever did you get this idea?

You are in no way required to consumate the marriage on your wedding night. In fact, MANY coupples do not for a number of reasons: abstaining due to menstruation, abstaining due to the fertile time, foregoing relations due to exhaustion, nervousness, etc. Some couples take time to gradually ease in to intimacy.

If you have a just reason to postpone conceiving, and you are fertile on your wedding night, then you simply wait a few days to begin the sexual part of your marriage.

Is there anything, within the bounds of Orthodoxy we can do?

Yes, you can abstain if you feel that you have a just reason to postpone pregnancy and you are in the fertile time.

I can’t imagine there is, as NFP techniques take planning.

Can you clarify this comment, it doesn’t make any sense. NFP doesn’t take planning, it takes study-- and that can be done prior to the wedding.

It’s hard to plan a wedding around when a woman isn’t supposed to be fertile, but even that seems wrong to me.

This would be nearly impossible to do, so don’t even give it a second thought. Just plan your wedding and don’t worry about the “time” of the month.

This might sound like a REALLY stupid question but I would really like to know.

It’s not a stupid question, it just sounds like you have some misconceptios about church teaching and about NFP.

So for traditional Catholics, I guess it’s kids right away right?

No, not at all.

As has been stated above, you can use NFP if you have a just reason to avoid. Also, you are making a huge assumption that you will be able to conceive right away-- which is not necessarily the case.

 

[1ke]

I have often wondered if a couple standing at the altar says “yes” to being open to children, all the while making sure they’re not…would that mean the marriage is invalid?

H-- using NFP and postponing pregnancy for a time is NOT an intention against children and does not invalidate a marriage.

A *permanent *intent against children, manifested before the marriage, is an impediment. However, the scenario described by the OP in no way meets that criteria.

 

[1ke]

Hey Johnny,

Hmm, it’s a long story for us. My parents were sort of non-denominational. She was baptized Catholic but never raised with any religion (weird family story). We both began to realize the importance of faith in college, and we just met last summer!

So then, it’s normal for a lady to be tracking her fertility before the marriage? I just thought, haha, well, it’s be inappropriate to say… “so, how is your ovulation going? what about the mucus” when you’re not married yet, haha, you know what I mean!?!

She’s a virgin and I’m not, but I may as well be one, I am very sheepish about this kind of thing now in regards to her!

Yes, it is appropriate to learn NFP before marriage as part of the proximate preparation for marriage.

You can learn just fine reading the materials, attending the class, and looking at the charts. You don’t have to ask her “so, do you have fertile mucus today”. I agree, that would be inappropriate.

 

[sasafr]

In some cases it is best to wait untill a year or longer after you get married. Especially if you are getting married right out of college and are just beginning you career. Your finances should be stable when you have you first child. When couples conceive a child imediately (in the first 6 months) and are not financially stable or have other issues such as having to move far away from their support network. Having a child is not ideal, the instability creates stress on the newly formed marriage for some that is too much. The lack of support is a big issue too, as if you have no close friends or family in that state or within an hours drive your future wife or you may feel very isolated when she is pregnant.
Pregnacy requires a support network, with out it a beautiful process may become a hateful one for your family. I hope your wedding goes well and wish you the best of luck.

 

[Em_in_FL]

Just a personal story to share with you…

We were in a similar situation when we got married. I was still in college… we had a lot of debt from school, house, cars, credit that we had to get under control… we were ready to get married, but chose to wait a couple years before having children.

But… I happened to be in my “fertile phase” on our wedding night!
So… what do you do? We decided to wait. Two days after our wedding we finally consumated our marriage.
I know of several other Catholic couples who have chosen similarly… so it’s not unheard-of…

I highly recommend going to NFP classes before your wedding. Have your fiance start tracking her cycle ahead of time…
God bless! Congratulations on your upcoming wedding!

 

[jpjd]

In general, I will say that marriage is for children, and having children should happen early in marriage. It is the most important glue that binds a young relationship, and it is God’s plan to shape us into what He wants us to be. We think we “have” children, when in reality God gives them to us as the tools that shape the clay of our souls.

Bolded emphasis is mine. I disagree with that statement. Children should not be the glue that binds the couple’s relationship. Love should be the glue, the tie that binds the couple. Children are the fruit of the love.