Are we experiencing Armageddon?

[MatrixProphet]

Hello,

There has always been so much controversary over this subject. It certainly has been a Christian topic for two millenniums! But is it just possible that we have somewhere missinterpreted the time frame? What if there is much to learn as to what the Gods agendas are? Could there be a possibility that there are hidden messages in the Bible? Expecially regarding this huge event? Here is part of my philosophy:

Is it just a coincidence that there are so many catastrophes occurring on the earth? Mankind seems to have gone haywire!

“Much has been written regarding this horrendous event. Many philosophers, prophets and spiritualistic persons have focused on this situation. Movies have been made dramatizing this event. Religions have had a field day converting over non-believers to their beliefs, and fear. Is the reality the same that has been taught and whispered down through the centuries?”

Is there a war going on in heavenly congress and are we feeling the effects here on earth? Is everything going according to plan by the Gods? How will this affect us?

“All war has a beginning, then a tedious middle (not sure where it is going) and then a finale or end. Armageddon is a war of stages! Unlike all that is being said about it. Most believe that it is a horrendous event happening quickly, and destructively, with the majority hoping or expecting it in the future. Is this correct? I believe Armageddon has already been going on for a long time. We are not waiting for Armageddon to start, for it already has!” (Copyrighted from my book; “The Game between the Gods”).

Care to hear more? Read the above book and then decide for yourself!

Good reading.

Michele Lyon
MatrixProphet

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

First there is one GOD.I am sort of perplexed with your term the gods.Would you care to give a general overview.God Bless

 

[Exporter]

Just read this. It was part of the original post.
“Is there a war going on in heavenly congress and are we feeling the effects here on earth? Is everything going according to plan by the Gods? How will this affect us?”

Let your heart be worried. The above words are writen by a person with no religion, see the profile. Maybe this person has seen too many “Star Wars” movies.

 

[stbruno]

What we are experiencing is the smallness of our planet since the birth and development of easy access to world information via the internet and satellite etc.
Wars, pestilence, famine, natural disasters have been occuring since the dawn of the world, we just didn’t know about it.

Remember the bible passage, “that no man knows the time, or place but be prepared for the bridegroom to come.”

 

[puzzleannie]

your question reminds me of one I asked my mother when I was expecting my first baby, “How will I know when I am in labor?”

“You will know, believe me,” she said. How true.

 

[awalt]

This person has been spamming other boards with the same message.

 

[HagiaSophia]

awalt:

This person has been spamming other boards with the same message.

This person also appears to be “pushing” a book.'nuf said.

 

[HagiaSophia]

awalt:

This person has been spamming other boards with the same message.

This person also appears to be “pushing” a book.'nuf said.

 

[serendipity]

Armageddon is only a place. Nothing will happen there. It is only mentioned in Revelation as where Titus say and gathered his troops before they wreaked further destruction on Jerusalem.

Protestants have problems intepreting this book since they chopped up som much of the rest of the Bible that pulls it togetther and added words where they don’t eblong, that they think some secret rapture will occur and then a great tribulation will occur.

Catholics know that the tribulation the passages in Chapters 1-19 of revelation and CH 7 and 12 of Daniel, and the Olivet Discourse in the gospels refer not to the future for us, but for the generation of Jesus that was to see Jerusalem and the Temple destroyed.

A great comparison between the Prostestant/rapturist approach and Catholic teaching is in David Currie’s Rapture: The End-Times Error that Leaves the Bible Behind. He use to be some sort of Protestant pastor, like Scott Hahn in how his study of scripture and history led him to the conclusion that the Catholic Church is the source of truth. Since some one is pushing an erroneous book, I thought I’d push my favorite book on the topic, which I am finishing now. It is so riveting, and once again reaffirms my faith in the Church.

The Catholic Church is God’s Kingdom on earth. It does seem that the anti-Christ will appeal to the world as a religious leader, but like many reliable sources, Currie argues that it does not seem possible to happen through the papacy, as Jesus promises Peter he would keep his office safe from the gates of hell.

People get confused when they think that all the apocalyptic writings refer to every one’s future, and some of them only refer to the future for Jesus’s generation, and in the latter case, those passages do paint Rome as a bad guy, because Rome did destroy the Temple and crucify millions of Jews, but that had been completed in AD70. Peopel who don’t realize some of the writings came to pass, as Jesus promised (within the generation of a fig tree), think that Rome will be the bad guy at the end of time, and somehow equate Rome to the Vatican And the Pope.

 

[MaggieOH]

puzzleannie:

your question reminds me of one I asked my mother when I was expecting my first baby, “How will I know when I am in labor?”

“You will know, believe me,” she said. How true.

Oh I am not so sure that one does know the first time. How about this? The labour was a pain in the back. New mother did not recognize what was happening. Just as well I had been put into hospital in preparation for having a little bit of help to have my baby

Maggie

 

[MaggieOH]

serendipity:

Armageddon is only a place. Nothing will happen there. It is only mentioned in Revelation as where Titus say and gathered his troops before they wreaked further destruction on Jerusalem.

Protestants have problems intepreting this book since they chopped up som much of the rest of the Bible that pulls it togetther and added words where they don’t eblong, that they think some secret rapture will occur and then a great tribulation will occur.

Catholics know that the tribulation the passages in Chapters 1-19 of revelation and CH 7 and 12 of Daniel, and the Olivet Discourse in the gospels refer not to the future for us, but for the generation of Jesus that was to see Jerusalem and the Temple destroyed.

A great comparison between the Prostestant/rapturist approach and Catholic teaching is in David Currie’s Rapture: The End-Times Error that Leaves the Bible Behind. He use to be some sort of Protestant pastor, like Scott Hahn in how his study of scripture and history led him to the conclusion that the Catholic Church is the source of truth. Since some one is pushing an erroneous book, I thought I’d push my favorite book on the topic, which I am finishing now. It is so riveting, and once again reaffirms my faith in the Church.

The Catholic Church is God’s Kingdom on earth. It does seem that the anti-Christ will appeal to the world as a religious leader, but like many reliable sources, Currie argues that it does not seem possible to happen through the papacy, as Jesus promises Peter he would keep his office safe from the gates of hell.

People get confused when they think that all the apocalyptic writings refer to every one’s future, and some of them only refer to the future for Jesus’s generation, and in the latter case, those passages do paint Rome as a bad guy, because Rome did destroy the Temple and crucify millions of Jews, but that had been completed in AD70. Peopel who don’t realize some of the writings came to pass, as Jesus promised (within the generation of a fig tree), think that Rome will be the bad guy at the end of time, and somehow equate Rome to the Vatican And the Pope.

 

[edwinG]

serendipity:

Armageddon is only a place. Nothing will happen there. It is only mentioned in Revelation as where Titus say and gathered his troops before they wreaked further destruction on Jerusalem.

Protestants have problems intepreting this book since they chopped up som much of the rest of the Bible that pulls it togetther and added words where they don’t eblong, that they think some secret rapture will occur and then a great tribulation will occur.

Catholics know that the tribulation the passages in Chapters 1-19 of revelation and CH 7 and 12 of Daniel, and the Olivet Discourse in the gospels refer not to the future for us, but for the generation of Jesus that was to see Jerusalem and the Temple destroyed.

A great comparison between the Prostestant/rapturist approach and Catholic teaching is in David Currie’s Rapture: The End-Times Error that Leaves the Bible Behind. He use to be some sort of Protestant pastor, like Scott Hahn in how his study of scripture and history led him to the conclusion that the Catholic Church is the source of truth. Since some one is pushing an erroneous book, I thought I’d push my favorite book on the topic, which I am finishing now. It is so riveting, and once again reaffirms my faith in the Church.

The Catholic Church is God’s Kingdom on earth. It does seem that the anti-Christ will appeal to the world as a religious leader, but like many reliable sources, Currie argues that it does not seem possible to happen through the papacy, as Jesus promises Peter he would keep his office safe from the gates of hell.

People get confused when they think that all the apocalyptic writings refer to every one’s future, and some of them only refer to the future for Jesus’s generation, and in the latter case, those passages do paint Rome as a bad guy, because Rome did destroy the Temple and crucify millions of Jews, but that had been completed in AD70. Peopel who don’t realize some of the writings came to pass, as Jesus promised (within the generation of a fig tree), think that Rome will be the bad guy at the end of time, and somehow equate Rome to the Vatican And the Pope.

Hi Serendipity,
I am not a catholic.
From the catholic standpoint, Tribulation as discussed in the major part of the Revelation occured during the generation of those people who lived when Jerusalem and the temple were destroyed. Am I understanding you? If this is the case, where is Satan now? Is he locked up in the bottomless pit still or has his time been and is he now free again for a short time? Are we now living a life here on earth without the influence of satan? If satan is now loose again, which period in history marked his imprisonment for that “1000” year period?
Walk in love
edwin.

 

[MaggieOH]

edwinG:

Hi Serendipity,
I am not a catholic.
From the catholic standpoint, Tribulation as discussed in the major part of the Revelation occured during the generation of those people who lived when Jerusalem and the temple were destroyed. Am I understanding you? If this is the case, where is Satan now? Is he locked up in the bottomless pit still or has his time been and is he now free again for a short time? Are we now living a life here on earth without the influence of satan? If satan is now loose again, which period in history marked his imprisonment for that “1000” year period?
Walk in love
edwin.

Edwin,

I think that the answer is that Jesus has already triumphed over Satan. I am not sure whether we need a literal understanding of these passages. That is why I consider most of the interpretations of the Book of Revelation to be seriously flawed.

BTW in Judaism, the 1000 has a special meaning. I am hoping that SSV might be able to provide the correct information, but I think that the 1000 stands for eternity.

Maggie

 

[serendipity]

edwinG:

Hi Serendipity,

I am not a catholic.

From the catholic standpoint, Tribulation as discussed in the major part of the Revelation occured during the generation of those people who lived when Jerusalem and the temple were destroyed. Am I understanding you? If this is the case, where is Satan now? Is he locked up in the bottomless pit still or has his time been and is he now free again for a short time? Are we now living a life here on earth without the influence of satan? If satan is now loose again, which period in history marked his imprisonment for that “1000” year period?

Walk in love

edwin.

Please forgive my ineptness at explaining my interpretation (which mirrors that reflected by the Catholic Church) becuase I am not an professional apologist by any means.

No where in the Book of Revelation does it say that Satan will be abosolutely without power after the tribulation experienced by the Jews (meaning roughly from the point of AD70), while he is chained up and in the pit It only that he will be restrained by God while in the pit, hence the imagery of a chain and that he will not be able to lead all nations astray as a whole during this time period. I do not think that means that he is without influence, and there are definitely places where it is more dangerous to be Christian than others.

Chapter 20 and 22 of Revelation refer to the time period after AD 70. 1000 years is standardly used to refer to “a along time” and not to be taken literally. 1000 is one of the perfect numbers, that indicates it had God’s plan attached to it.

Chapter 20 says that Satan is free again to sway all nations, but does not say if this freedom occurs gradually over time, which might be likely, as he isn’t really a mortal form limited by time and place or if wham bam once day he makes some great escape and then summons Gog and Magaog to help he wreak havoc on the world. Throughout the Old Testament, Gog and Magog represented the heathen world that was opposed to Yahweh.

It appears that the battle of Satan with his cohorts is more spiritual than temportal as outlined in Ch 20. We don’t get the iamges of the wine press and lands flowing with blood, and plagues and famines. We merely hear that Satan worked in all nations, then God got rid of him, and then God preceeded to judge all and decide you go to heaven, or you go to hell here and now.

It appears too that this occurs in a relatively brief period of time, since this battle occurs in a few verses in only once chapter. But what is a brief period of time for God, who uses eternity as a measuring stick?

It is the Catholic church’s position and was the position of the early Fathers, that we can not know for sure where Satan is at this moment; is he still in the pit, or has he been released and started his work to lead to final judgement. Jesus himself says we will not know that hour, and I do not belive that an accurate reading of the Bible will ever tell you exactly when it begins, because God does not mean us to know.

All we know for sure is that it will be later than people think. The passages in the gospel in which Jesus speaks in parables, about servants fufilling obligations in the mater’s absence, or the wedding parties waiting for th groom, each demonstrate how the one waited for catches the waiters off guards; arrives later than planned.

We will be judged according to the marks on our head and hands, meaning according to how loyal we are to the gospel (head reference) and how well we implement the gospel teaching in our daily lives (hand reference), while we are challenged by all that free will encompasses. Catholics believe that we need to do our most to demonstrate our faith in God and promote his kingdom on earth freely, and if we knew the exact day on which it all would be summed up, then it would perhaps be be too easy for us.

The Bible tells us in many places that God tests his faithful and purifies them through their struggles. Faith to some extent is a leap into the unkown. If we know everything, then what is faith?

 

[MaggieOH]

serendipity:

Please forgive my ineptness at explaining my interpretation (which mirrors that reflected by the Catholic Church) becuase I am not an professional apologist by any means.

No where in the Book of Revelation does it say that Satan will be abosolutely without power after the tribulation experienced by the Jews (meaning roughly from the point of AD70), while he is chained up and in the pit It only that he will be restrained by God while in the pit, hence the imagery of a chain and that he will not be able to lead all nations astray as a whole during this time period. I do not think that means that he is without influence, and there are definitely places where it is more dangerous to be Christian than others.

Chapter 20 and 22 of Revelation refer to the time period after AD 70. 1000 years is standardly used to refer to “a along time” and not to be taken literally. 1000 is one of the perfect numbers, that indicates it had God’s plan attached to it.

Chapter 20 says that Satan is free again to sway all nations, but does not say if this freedom occurs gradually over time, which might be likely, as he isn’t really a mortal form limited by time and place or if wham bam once day he makes some great escape and then summons Gog and Magaog to help he wreak havoc on the world. Throughout the Old Testament, Gog and Magog represented the heathen world that was opposed to Yahweh.

It appears that the battle of Satan with his cohorts is more spiritual than temportal as outlined in Ch 20. We don’t get the iamges of the wine press and lands flowing with blood, and plagues and famines. We merely hear that Satan worked in all nations, then God got rid of him, and then God preceeded to judge all and decide you go to heaven, or you go to hell here and now.

It appears too that this occurs in a relatively brief period of time, since this battle occurs in a few verses in only once chapter. But what is a brief period of time for God, who uses eternity as a measuring stick?

It is the Catholic church’s position and was the position of the early Fathers, that we can not know for sure where Satan is at this moment; is he still in the pit, or has he been released and started his work to lead to final judgement. Jesus himself says we will not know that hour, and I do not belive that an accurate reading of the Bible will ever tell you exactly when it begins, because God does not mean us to know.

All we know for sure is that it will be later than people think. The passages in the gospel in which Jesus speaks in parables, about servants fufilling obligations in the mater’s absence, or the wedding parties waiting for th groom, each demonstrate how the one waited for catches the waiters off guards; arrives later than planned.

We will be judged according to the marks on our head and hands, meaning according to how loyal we are to the gospel (head reference) and how well we implement the gospel teaching in our daily lives (hand reference), while we are challenged by all that free will encompasses. Catholics believe that we need to do our most to demonstrate our faith in God and promote his kingdom on earth freely, and if we knew the exact day on which it all would be summed up, then it would perhaps be be too easy for us.

The Bible tells us in many places that God tests his faithful and purifies them through their struggles. Faith to some extent is a leap into the unkown. If we know everything, then what is faith?

Wow Serendipity, I did learn quite a bit from your response.

Maggie

 

[serendipity]

MaggieOH:

Wow Serendipity, I did learn quite a bit from your response.
Maggie

Maggies, you are making me blush becuase I alwyas learn so much from you here.

Not meaning to sound like an advertisement, but Curries’ book amazed me so much. It not only compared different aways of looking at the scripture, but included much insight form early churhc fathers’ techings, and non-Christian historians such as Josephus and Roman scholars.

I usually think of religion as a personal issue, but the way that some groups interpret revelation, combined with how they evangelize, seriously undermines the abilit of the rest of us to promote a life based on gospel principles here on earth, as we are encouraged to do by Jesus’s example and as articulated in the Our Father prayer; “thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.” These tactics include promoting many issues form illegally expropriating land in the Middle East, which exacerbates the conflict there, to opinions formed about the European Union.

What’s funny is that this school of interpretation, the secret rapturist system that comprises many judgements, is not universal to fundamental churches, but predominatly only present in US Fundamentalist churches. It’s fairly recent, only developed over the last 200 years, and gained much popularity from fatalism that characterised the Great Depressions, and WWII. But it is appealing to many who are seeking some sort of scientific reasurance for why bad things happen in the world; similar to why people who are hurting the most are the most vulnerable to seeking reassurance from psychics and fortune tellers. The “Left Behind” series capitalizes on this, and the novels are read by many Catholics too, and they have been dangerous, drawing some wasy form the church.

Faith is a search for meaning when we don’t have all of the facts, and when something is very painful, and the future seems very bleak, it can be more of a challenge to accept that we need to still have faith; belief in a better future without all concrete facts about how God’s will will be done.

 

[edwinG]

MaggieOH:

Edwin,

I think that the answer is that Jesus has already triumphed over Satan. I am not sure whether we need a literal understanding of these passages. That is why I consider most of the interpretations of the Book of Revelation to be seriously flawed.

BTW in Judaism, the 1000 has a special meaning. I am hoping that SSV might be able to provide the correct information, but I think that the 1000 stands for eternity.

Maggie

HI Maggie,
Doesn’t Jesus say he saw satan falling. Wasn’t he pushed out of heaven by Michael and the angels? Of course Jesus triumphed over satan and His miracles testified to this. So I am supposing that you believe it when Jesus said He saw satan falling. Tell me where you think satan is now.
Can you please explain why you think most of the interpretations of the Book of Revelation are seriously flawed. Does this mean you reject the teaching of the catholic church on this book. I am supposing they have a point of view on the book, The Revelation.
Walk in love
Grow in Christ
edwinG

 

[Genesis315]

The Church’s teaching, if I am not mistaken, is that Christ is reigning now. The “Millenium” is the Church age. He reigns from Heaven with the Pope as his representative on Earth (He gave Peter the keys). Satan is therefore chained up right now in the pit. The Church lets us interpret prophecies anyway we see fit, as long as it doesn’t contradict Church teaching. I would say with how much immorality and relativism there is in the world today, that perhaps Satan is getting loose. I’m not sure if Christ is returning anytime soon, but I think it’s a safe bet we won’t go another 2000 years.

 

[serendipity]

Genesis315:

The Church’s teaching, if I am not mistaken, is that Christ is reigning now. The “Millenium” is the Church age.

Yes, but some Protestant sects some how fail to see this interpretation, and if they did it would probably make them question what churhc they belong too, since only the Catholic church can credibly claim to have its orgins in the life of Christ, and has existed throughout the entire Christ Age of Messianic Age.

Revelation was a book that I shied away form, but Scott Hahn’s The Lamb’s Supper dipped my toes in it, and the David Currie *Rapture *book so throroughly explained and analyzed all the possible approaches, which demystified it for me, and now I find it one of the most faith-affirming books of the Bible for me.

 

[MaggieOH]

Genesis315:

The Church’s teaching, if I am not mistaken, is that Christ is reigning now. The “Millenium” is the Church age. He reigns from Heaven with the Pope as his representative on Earth (He gave Peter the keys). Satan is therefore chained up right now in the pit. The Church lets us interpret prophecies anyway we see fit, as long as it doesn’t contradict Church teaching. I would say with how much immorality and relativism there is in the world today, that perhaps Satan is getting loose. I’m not sure if Christ is returning anytime soon, but I think it’s a safe bet we won’t go another 2000 years.

That sounds pretty good to me. Jesus continues to reign every day.

Maggie