Are we experiencing Chastisement?

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Tom317

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For decades Christians have claimed that abortion, divorce, adultery, gay agendas, the sexual revoltuion, etc, has to the potential of destroying the Untied States and that God would not suffer our sins forever.

Are we in the midst of a divinely allowed period of chastisement for our coproate sins as a nation (i.e. Iraq war, war on terror, etc.)?

[Note: I am not saying God brough a chastisement on us, I am asking if God has allowed us to punish ourselves]
 
I believe it is the case because it has always been the case. It seems a little to quiet now though, at the height of atrocity. This is what worries me.
 
Tom317 said:
Why do you believe so? (just curious)
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For one, due to contraception we are literally screwing ourselves off the face of the earth because people are not having children. Second there is an invasion from the south, at this point Mexicans are a larger minority than Blacks and they continue to grow. At least they are Catholics.

To one degree or another I believe all of this mess is due to Protestantism.
 
Everything that is wrong in the world leads back to Adam and Eve. You can’t blame everything that’s going in the US on sex. All disease, war, poverty, false religions, etc, are all repercussions of the Fall. And please don’t blame the protestants. They are facing the same hardships we are. Blaming each other will only add to our growing list of problems.
 
dbacks5439 said:
Everything that is wrong in the world leads back to Adam and Eve. You can’t blame everything that’s going in the US on sex. All disease, war, poverty, false religions, etc, are all repercussions of the Fall. And please don’t blame the protestants. They are facing the same hardships we are. Blaming each other will only add to our growing list of problems.
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I absolutely agree. But more specifically, everything wrong with the world points to SIN.
 
I’m a bit wary of pronouncing anything and everything that goes wrong as chastisement. For one thing saying so also implies the opposite - that those who do extra well are less sinful, if not sinless. Would you really be prepared to say that of Bill Gates or George W Bush?

For another, we are NOT currently in the worst time of history. Try reading up, for example, on the plague of the 1300s which killed between a quarter and a third of the population of Europe. Or about all the poor people who suffered so horribly in WW1 and WW2. Would you be prepared to say those societies were all miserably sinful? I wouldn’t.
 
LilyM said:
I’m a bit wary of pronouncing anything and everything that goes wrong as chastisement. For one thing saying so also implies the opposite - that those who do extra well are less sinful, if not sinless. Would you really be prepared to say that of Bill Gates or George W Bush?
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I agree, we should not think that everything that goes wrong points to chastisement. However, abortion, gay agendas, divorce rates etc., are hardly in the category of “anthing.”
For another, we are NOT currently in the worst time of history. Try reading up, for example, on the plague of the 1300s which killed between a quarter and a third of the population of Europe. Or about all the poor people who suffered so horribly in WW1 and WW2. Would you be prepared to say those societies were all miserably sinful? I wouldn’t.
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I disagree with you on your points here. There are estimates that abortion and contraception have killed up to 1 billion lives over the last 40 years, more then the entire population of the earth during the plaque times you site. Couple that the near complete apsotasy of most of the Christian world, deadly deseases that have wiped out millions (aids, etc.), starvation at numbers that can rival any period of time, divorce rates higher then any other time, adultery seen as “cool,” shacking-up and avoiding marriage altogether at incredible rates, gay agendas being pushed across nearly all of the western world, children with one-parent homes at frightening levels, wars and rumors of wars across the globe, nations threatening to wipe out Israel and the United States, public schools banning prayer and any vestige of Christianity, government becoming increasingly hostile to Christianity, the list goes on and on and on and on…

I would argue that we are living in the most unique and yes worst times ever!
 
dbacks5439 said:
Everything that is wrong in the world leads back to Adam and Eve. You can’t blame everything that’s going in the US on sex. All disease, war, poverty, false religions, etc, are all repercussions of the Fall. And please don’t blame the protestants. They are facing the same hardships we are. Blaming each other will only add to our growing list of problems.
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I did not blame any group.
 
Somebody (I think it was Billy Graham, but I’m not sure) said that if God didn’t punish America for its sins, He would have to apologize to Sodom and Gomorrah.
 
[Note: I am not saying God brought a chastisement on us, I am asking if God has allowed us to punish ourselves]
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I agree. We can punish ourselves far worse!

For example: How will abortion punish America?

Answer: Social Security was designed in such a way that younger generations pay for the social welfare of the elderly. This was set up prior to Roe vs. Wade. This system once worked, but the Baby Boomer generation aborted 30% of the younger generation that the government had anticipated would pay into the Boomer’s Social Security.

Social Security will go bankrupt because the 30% of the young payees people were murdered through Abortion. The fall of Social Security may one day bankrupt America.

This is an example of a fitting punishment that we’ll have brought on ourselves. It may even affect the Baby Boomers the most! How’s that for Divine Justice?
 
Tom317 said:
I agree, we should not think that everything that goes wrong points to chastisement. However, abortion, gay agendas, divorce rates etc., are hardly in the category of “anthing.”

I would argue that we are living in the most unique and yes worst times ever!
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And the ancient Greeks and Romans ALSO had plenty of abortion, hence the early church pronouncing against it (and a high rate of infanticide too), gay agendas thanks to institutionalised pederasty, very high divorce rates for the Romans - plus ruthless and bloody persecution of Christians and Emperors who burned Rome down (Nero) and made their horses Senators (Caligula) when it suited them :bigyikes:
 
LilyM said:
And the ancient Greeks and Romans ALSO had plenty of abortion, hence the early church pronouncing against it (and a high rate of infanticide too), gay agendas thanks to institutionalised pederasty, very high divorce rates for the Romans - plus ruthless and bloody persecution of Christians and Emperors who burned Rome down (Nero) and made their horses Senators (Caligula) when it suited them :bigyikes:
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I agree, there have been many terrible times in history, yet imo none of those times compare to the legal slaughter of a billion lives over 40 years, nor do those past times compare to the last 100 years of history with the world wars, Holocaust, Stalin, etc. Couple that with the incredible loss of the faith and the Sodom and Gommorah-like way our culture now lives, and I stand strongly in my belief that humanity has never seen a worse time. On the surface we look more advanced and better off then ever, but that is merely hiding the damage being done to billions of souls across the globe. Can anyone say “Great Tribulation?”
 
GoldenArrow said:
I agree. We can punish ourselves far worse!

For example: How will abortion punish America?

Answer: Social Security was designed in such a way that younger generations pay for the social welfare of the elderly. This was set up prior to Roe vs. Wade. This system once worked, but the Baby Boomer generation aborted 30% of the younger generation that the government had anticipated would pay into the Boomer’s Social Security.

Social Security will go bankrupt because the 30% of the young payees people were murdered through Abortion. The fall of Social Security may one day bankrupt America.

This is an example of a fitting punishment that we’ll have brought on ourselves. It may even affect the Baby Boomers the most! How’s that for Divine Justice?
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Good point, yet I think the punishment is far worse then that. We have seen an unprecedented loss of faith in the Christian world (placing billions of souls at risk), coupled with a Sodom and Gomorrah culture that has us trapped in wars and rumors of wars on a daily basis, with the world one step away from destruction at any moment or day. We will not see peace (no matter who the President is) until we turn back to God, imo. Slaughtering God’s children and the refusal to repent and stop that slaughtering, is causing our problems.
 
Catholic_Dude said:
For one, due to contraception we are literally screwing ourselves off the face of the earth because people are not having children.
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:confused:
the population keeps going up the last I heard
Catholic_Dude said:
Second there is an invasion from the south, at this point Mexicans are a larger minority than Blacks and they continue to grow. At least they are Catholics.
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So when you said “people” aren’t having babies you meant certain kinds of people :confused:

I’m not really comfortable with that kind of statement.

With regards to Chastisement… there have always been wars, plagues, famines, and the like. Nothing new there.

Like LilyM, I am also not really comfortable with the idea that success or failure in this world or general larger circumstances beyond an individual’s control are related to a person’s or a society’s spiritual status.

While societies can damage themselves through bad judgments it is our doing and not God’s.

I thought that the point of the parable of the seeds that grew amongst the thorns was that God wasn’t about to rip out the thorns because the wheat would be damaged too.
Catholic_Dude said:
To one degree or another I believe all of this mess is due to Protestantism.
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Well naturally 😉
 
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