Are we headed toward a two class system?

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With the cost of education rising at a rate far above the rate of inflation it’s not hard to see that only wealthy parents can send their kids to college. This disparity in education will act as a catalyst for a two-class system.
 
With the cost of education rising at a rate far above the rate of inflation it’s not hard to see that only wealthy parents can send their kids to college. This disparity in education will act as a catalyst for a two-class system.
Hopefully the rising costs of college tuition will actually cause some kids to gravitate towards the skilled trades. We could definitely use them, as there’s a skilled labor shortage in the US and a pretty wide age gap in skilled labor workers. We’re going to see a significant portion of our skilled labor workforce retiring over the next decade with no one to replace them because the past two generations have convinced their children that they have a God-given right and an obligation to attend college.

And then we wind up with a surplus of kids with degrees who can’t get jobs, and they go and start occupying stuff and claiming to represent the rest of us.
 
Hopefully the rising costs of college tuition will actually cause some kids to gravitate towards the skilled trades. We could definitely use them, as there’s a skilled labor shortage in the US and a pretty wide age gap in skilled labor workers. We’re going to see a significant portion of our skilled labor workforce retiring over the next decade with no one to replace them because the past two generations have convinced their children that they have a God-given right and an obligation to attend college.

And then we wind up with a surplus of kids with degrees who can’t get jobs, and they go and start occupying stuff and claiming to represent the rest of us.
The immigrant population will fill the gap in the skilled trade department.
 
With the cost of education rising at a rate far above the rate of inflation it’s not hard to see that only wealthy parents can send their kids to college. This disparity in education will act as a catalyst for a two-class system.
It’s already true WITHIN those who go to college. Only a few who are wealthy or who are moderately well off but have only one child or perhaps two, can afford the most expensive universities as well as the very serious and expensive private schooling and prep courses it takes to get into the most selective ones.

Everybody else goes to the less expensive, usually public, universities and colleges.

In some places, like here, it makes no difference whether one goes to Harvard or Mizzou as far as one’s prospects afterward are concerned. Indeed, here in S.W. Mo, Mizzou, Mo State or U of Ark are probably preferred with most employers.

But in some places, it really matters whether one went to an Ivy League or second tier school versus a public university.
 
With the cost of education rising at a rate far above the rate of inflation it’s not hard to see that only wealthy parents can send their kids to college. This disparity in education will act as a catalyst for a two-class system.
Why would it have to be a two-class system? If there starts to be a shortage of college grads, wouldn’t it make sense that new tech schools and private colleges would open up that would have tuitions that specifically target students from the lower income brackets??

There’s always going to be schools out there that are simply too expensive for average families to send their kids to… Economic disparity is just one of those realities that go with living in a fallen world. If you don’t like it, then that’s all the more reason to get to heaven! 😃
 
Why would it have to be a two-class system? If there starts to be a shortage of college grads, wouldn’t it make sense that new tech schools and private colleges would open up that would have tuitions that specifically target students from the lower income brackets??
I am not sure of the situation in Canada, but here in the US, tech schools and other private schools are more expensive than public schools. The public universities and community colleges are subsidized by the government and can afford to offer lower tuition.

Tuition is increasing in the public colleges because states have been decreasing their subsidies. This is largely due to the general anti-tax climate which has prevailed in the US for the past 30 years, and the need for state governments to tighten their budgets.

Tuition in the public universities and community colleges will come down if the voters demand it.
 
The immigrant population will fill the gap in the skilled trade department.
:confused:

The vast majority of the “immigrant population” do not qualify for skilled labor jobs. Skilled trades are filled with predominantly African-American, Asian-American and white American males. The “immigrant population” would need a great deal of training to fill the skilled labor ranks, not the least of which is extensive education in English (and other languages, the majority of the schematics where I work are in German, for example), as well as advanced math and other technical skills. Most companies don’t want to hire someone they need to train from the ground up, which is why they try to get vo-tech school grads and folks with prior technical experience (such as veterans and folks already in a skilled labor position). The problem is that no one sends their kids to vo-tech schools anymore; even the least academically endowed among us goes to college because that’s the “American dream.” Then they spend four to six years majoring in “Interdisciplinary Studies” and racking up student loans, and when they get out, lo and behold, there aren’t any jobs for them and they wind up getting some minimum-wage job (if they can find one) while they hope something in their field opens up.

And yet at a time when unemployment has been hitting record highs, the skilled labor deficit is larger than ever. We as Americans have become ashamed of getting our hands dirty, and somehow the drone sitting in a cubicle farm became the ideal, instead of the guy out there working his tail off wiring a house, or fixing someone’s busted plumbing, or manufacturing the goods that let us live our day to day lives. Mike Rowe, of Discovery Channel’s “Dirty Jobs”, actually testified before Congress about this very thing.

So if higher college costs means less kids going to college and more of them learning a skilled trade, I’m all for it.
 
Hopefully the rising costs of college tuition will actually cause some kids to gravitate towards the skilled trades. We could definitely use them, as there’s a skilled labor shortage in the US and a pretty wide age gap in skilled labor workers. We’re going to see a significant portion of our skilled labor workforce retiring over the next decade with no one to replace them because the past two generations have convinced their children that they have a God-given right and an obligation to attend college.

And then we wind up with a surplus of kids with degrees who can’t get jobs, and they go and start occupying stuff and claiming to represent the rest of us.
I am going to strongly encourage my kids to look into trade schools. And yes, there is a shortage of skilled labor in this country. Just in the past month, I have run across two articles which touch on the shortage of skilled labor. A gentleman in the North East US owns a metal fabrication shop. He has had several job opening for ages but can not find anyone with metal fabricating experience. That is something you learn at a trade school; no need for an expensive college degree. Also, did you see the story of the Chinese construction firms being brought in to build a new bridge in California? If you watched the newscast, the people in charge of the project said they brought in the Chinese because they couldn’t find enough American welders to work on the project.

Carpenters, plumbers, electricians…, they all make decent money and you don’t need to spend a fortune on college.
 
This is an interesting question.:compcoff:

I wonder if we’ve already had a two class system for decades. In the 1950’s and sixties, for example, people who could not afford to pay for college…simply didn’t. Slowly, people began to accustom themselves to living beyond their means on every front, buying brand new cars on “time,” using credit cards more and more, accumulating larger personal debt, believing that this was normal. I remember most people buying used cars, and only doctors, lawyers or the very rich vacationing abroad. There was a thing called a “budget,” within which to live.

Truly, if in our middle class neighborhood we had heard of of a family vacationing anywhere outside the U.S., we would have thought they were very odd, unless they had parents still living in the old country. (If they did have parent’s living in the old country, they also would not be calling them long distance every week.) Long distance calls, pricey cars, vacations, expensive colleges, these were not for the middle class, but now are.

If we saw a family going out to eat twice a week,:eek: we would be over at their front door in a nanosecond, asking who was in the hospital or had died.

College coeds going to exotic islands? One car per driver? We had schedules more complicated, more intricately designed than the Normandy invasion to balance:juggle: a brother’s baseball game with a sister’s tap lesson.

Mother’s took turns carpooling, not driving cars the size of urban assault vehicles with 2.2 children watching television in the back seat (lest, Heaven forbid, they experience the boredom of looking quietly out the window for twenty minutes.)

Many people had four or five children and they were not treated as some are called today, “Baccarat Crystal.” We learned to respect time and property and persons, no matter what they drove or where they lived. We heard stories of poverty at the dinner table that would send shivers up our backs and curl hair we didn’t have. We read Dickens and had a notion of what happened to people who couldn’t pay the piper.

There does seem to be another very interesting trend: I have noted no less than five sets of parents who are alums of some upper echelon (not quite Ivy League) colleges, who are not sending their 18 year olds to their own alma mater because of the sheer expense. They are instead jockeying for position at whatever state university will take their teens, often teens who have been driving cars that my father would never dreamed of owning.

:okpeople: “The American Way” has lost its way when we prefer objects over a love of learning. The aristocracy of the mind (open to all who aspire to knowledge and is no respecter of persons) has been supplanted by a dress up party, a masquerading as the wealthy or even the nobility.

In the last decade, I’ve seen a vast difference in the expectations of middle class people from my day to the seemingly limitless expectations of today. Then came the stock market crash/real estate bubble debacle of a few years ago and something called fear began to chip away at the ego.

Grandparents are taking in their grown children and young grandchildren due to job losses and real estate bubble fiascos, wondering why “junior” can’t make it on his own. There was a time when many generations lived under one roof and were grateful:gopray2: to have that roof.

At some point, American’s expectations became simply insupportable, bordering on the ridiculous. I know of a mother who hired a limo for her daughter’s sixteenth birthday. The teen and her friends were squired around town for manicures/ to hair salons and massages before returning home to their parent’s twice mortgaged house in the suburbs.

Only the rich could ever truly afford to live in McMansions, but we didn’t want to live within our means. Only the rich (with the exception of very talented students on scholarships) could really expect to attend an Ivy League college. Somehow, some of us lost respect for living modestly within our means. It is going to take some time to convince people that they’re closer to their hardworking, decent friends living modestly than they are to the upper classes.

Evictions, bankruptcies, and the skyrocketing cost of basic living expenses will eventually awaken us to the fact that the Middle Class has for too long been only masquerading as the truly wealthy.

There was a similar anomaly in another century, when sewing machine patterns became available to the lower classes. At that time, the wealthy were shocked to see “the lower classes” suddenly covered in quite decent clothing that was eerily similar to their own finery. But even as clothes seem to make the man, status is far more complicated than what we wear, and far more disturbing when we begin to mortgage our future with credit and misguided notions of what really matters.

Two classes? This is nothing new. The Middle Class has, for a long time, been only slightly better off than the poor. Except for the wealthiest and the nobility, many are only a few paychecks away from eviction. This may be a prime moment in our history to relearn the art of humility and common sense.

The “Greatest” generation can still teach us life’s lessons.

Most of all, the greatest Teacher Himself is our sublime example of modesty. Judging each person by his or her own priceless soul, rather than worldly possessions, the foundation of His Holy Church was set down to prepare us for Heavenly Paradise, not for sad imitators, not for fleeting moments of consumer frenzy and the poverty of social climbing.

We are lucky to remember we are “in the world” and “not OF it.” God is great! He taught us to humbly ask for our “daily bread.” I know I must remind myself of His humility and try to attain it honestly.:gopray2::angel1::grouphug:
Blessings!
Kathryn Ann
 
When it comes to education, I think the government actually made education more expensive through its grants and loans. Colleges had no reason to keep prices down because the government through its loan programs, kept them supplied with customers, who then racked up insurmountable debt over the course of their college years.

In my own family, all my siblings and myself worked our way through college. One could do that then. It can’t be done now. It could be done then because tuition costs were lower. They had to be, if the school expected to have students. A local company once offered to loan me funds to go to school if I would work for them when I graduated. I turned it down because I didn’t like the idea of debt, and wasn’t sure where I might want to work in four years.
 
This thread is not about education per se, but address the question: Are we headed toward a two class system? Education was just one example.
 
Radical income stratification. But it might result in more than 2 levels.

My take on it is that America is a very different place than it was when I was a child. We had it better then. Our outlook was better; we had some modest purpose as individuals, feeling we could get employed reasonably.

Now the youth see a brick wall in front of them at age 20. How’d you like starting life with that. And debt. And no jobs that pay well or give benefits.

Our upper (“intelligent”) elites sold America out. Factories shipped overseas. Trade agreements with Uncle Sam as patsy. A queer belief in “free” trade. A strange idea that the wealthy should pay less in taxes, despite using more governmental resources. A redirection of our society’s role models, from great politicians (Lincoln, Washington) to self=promoting CEOs in fancy suits and multiple houses.
 
When it comes to education, I think the government actually made education more expensive through its grants and loans. Colleges had no reason to keep prices down because the government through its loan programs, kept them supplied with customers, who then racked up insurmountable debt over the course of their college years.
All you really have to do is go to nearly any campus and see what has been built/landscaped/dolled up in the last 30 years in order to know how lavish they have been with funds. That’s true of both public and private institutions.
 
Radical income stratification. But it might result in more than 2 levels.

My take on it is that America is a very different place than it was when I was a child. We had it better then. Our outlook was better; we had some modest purpose as individuals, feeling we could get employed reasonably.

Now the youth see a brick wall in front of them at age 20. How’d you like starting life with that. And debt. And no jobs that pay well or give benefits.

Our upper (“intelligent”) elites sold America out. Factories shipped overseas. Trade agreements with Uncle Sam as patsy. A queer belief in “free” trade. A strange idea that the wealthy should pay less in taxes, despite using more governmental resources. A redirection of our society’s role models, from great politicians (Lincoln, Washington) to self=promoting CEOs in fancy suits and multiple houses.
If it were not for our government deficits, we would not have the trade imbalance and would not have the jobs problem. “Free trade” isn’t the villain in the piece. Deficits are. Deficits give our trading “partners” alternatives to buying our goods and services. They can just buy debt instead with their surplus dollars.

Prior to Obamacare, most jobs had benefits. After 2014, that will be very doubtful.

And what makes anyone think the “wealthy” use more government resources than anyone else? Other that the politically-connected; those who can “pay to play”, they don’t.
 
All you really have to do is go to nearly any campus and see what has been built/landscaped/dolled up in the last 30 years in order to know how lavish they have been with funds. That’s true of both public and private institutions.
My wife works as a secretary for a college. The new college president is trying to create a legacy for himself. Millions of dollars are going for landscaping and full grown trees being planted. To get the money tuition has been raised and many people have lost their jobs. And how many students will recall the beautiful trees from their college days.?
 
With the cost of education rising at a rate far above the rate of inflation it’s not hard to see that only wealthy parents can send their kids to college. This disparity in education will act as a catalyst for a two-class system.
As the parent of a high school junior, I see what you are saying. However, the reality of college is that the wealthy and the poor can send their kids to college. The former can afford it and the latter have lots of financial aid opportunities. The middle-class is being squeezed out. We are deemed too well off to qualify for financial aid but cannot afford to pay full price, even at a state school. I have watched the grad stats at my kids school for the past several years. More and more parents, who could afford Catholic high school, are sending their kids to community college for the first few years as the only option they can afford. 😦
 
My wife works as a secretary for a college. The new college president is trying to create a legacy for himself. Millions of dollars are going for landscaping and full grown trees being planted. To get the money tuition has been raised and many people have lost their jobs. And how many students will recall the beautiful trees from their college days.?
I went to graduate school to an urban Catholic institution. Part of it looked like a University (barely). Part of it consisted in old business buildings that it had bought over the years. It was hard to tell that it was a University just driving by, but it had very good graduate schools.

Now, it’s jaw-droppingly lavish with professional landscaping everywhere, extremely expensive new buildings, fountains, etc, and the student population is hardly larger than it was when I attended. I can’t even begin to imagine how much money the school has spent on gold-plating.

I guess it’s kind of odd to recall that the urban location and utter utilitarianism was a source of pride for us back then. There was an incredibly lavish private university not far away, and we had a perverse pride in the fact that we were going about our business in getting educated while they were there in their “imitation Oxford” surroundings. Our parking lot was full of old Chevys and Fords while theirs was full of Mercedes, Ferraris and Maseratis (no kidding). We took pride in that too. We were Catholic, after all, and our concern was life; the life of work, of family formation, of faith and comeraderie. We were not “made” for lavish lifestyles, or so we thought. It isn’t as if there were no wealthy people at our school. They just thought differently, like the rest of us. You couldn’t tell a wealthy person from a poor one.

I have to wonder whether anyone has benefitted from the conversion of our old campus, and the staggering amount of money it took to ape the rich folks on the other campus. And when the graduates make their student loan payments that paid for all of that gold-plating, are they grateful to make those payments, or would they have preferred the old campus and a lower debt level?

Much has been said about the fact that so many Catholics are in the “consumer game”, and all kinds of people critique it, including, I’m sure, many on the faculty of my old school. But a lifetime of messages has been given to the students, including from their own school, a school that should, one thinks, have been giving a different message by example.
 
re: college expenses

PART of this is due to the professional classes wanting to upgrade their salary!

However, for colleges, no small part of the sprucing up is because there was vast concern back in the 1990s that, due to the birth dearth in America, schools faced having fewer students! Thus, competing on facilities.

Thus, the country-club/corporate campus look of schools. You would not believe the difference between my alma mater years back, and the posh, plush place it’s become.

Total cush.
 
If it were not for our government deficits, we would not have the trade imbalance and would not have the jobs problem. “Free trade” isn’t the villain in the piece. Deficits are. Deficits give our trading “partners” alternatives to buying our goods and services. They can just buy debt instead with their surplus dollars.

Prior to Obamacare, most jobs had benefits. After 2014, that will be very doubtful.

And what makes anyone think the “wealthy” use more government resources than anyone else? Other that the politically-connected; those who can “pay to play”, they don’t.
I agree; deficit are bad. So is imbalanced trade exploiting our fake theory of “free” trade.

The rich DO have more political clout, which they use to adjust the tax code and government regulation, on their behalf. This is Poli Sci 101, and it’s always been the case in human history.

The rich NEED an SEC to regulate the market (for stability). I don’t. The rich need expensive transportation systems. They need more police protection. They need functioning civil courts (when did YOU last take a guy to court?) to ensure that their property is kept whole. They need a vast body of law to sustain their holdings. They need the FDIC, and, if you read history, they will use the US military to support their property rights and contractual arrangements in various nations around the world.

And they need much more in addition to all these goodies.

And THEN the rich have the temerity to complain about everybody ELSE being loafers and freeloaders!

Democracy’s a good thing. Not oligarchy.
 
I agree; deficit are bad. So is imbalanced trade exploiting our fake theory of “free” trade.

The rich DO have more political clout, which they use to adjust the tax code and government regulation, on their behalf. This is Poli Sci 101, and it’s always been the case in human history.

The rich NEED an SEC to regulate the market (for stability). I don’t. The rich need expensive transportation systems. They need more police protection. They need functioning civil courts (when did YOU last take a guy to court?) to ensure that their property is kept whole. They need a vast body of law to sustain their holdings. They need the FDIC, and, if you read history, they will use the US military to support their property rights and contractual arrangements in various nations around the world.

And they need much more in addition to all these goodies.

And THEN the rich have the temerity to complain about everybody ELSE being loafers and freeloaders!

Democracy’s a good thing. Not oligarchy.
Your citation of those who receive “more” would include the great majority of Americans. So, should everybody’s taxes be raised if their 401K includes securities; if they get divorced or a traffic ticket, if they have an insured bank account, if they value their defense against militant Islam as much as some rich guy does? And what homeowner in America does not expect the courts to protect his right to own his home and to enforce property restrictions?

When you talk about those who are sufficiently wealthy to affect government policy by use of wealth, you’re talking about a tiny number of people.
 
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