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Christphr
Guest
What do you think? Is even the church itself much more watered down now?
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1neophyte
Guest
Yes. And yes. 
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pianistclare
Guest
Nothing like throwing in the towel. 
We’re not dead yet. And Chirst Himself promised we that hell would never prevail against us, so to answer your question, NO.
Don’t’ believe the doom and gloom people. Rejoice and do good work in the vineyard, pray fro the Church and her members, fast, and make sacrifices when you can.
We’re not dead yet. And Chirst Himself promised we that hell would never prevail against us, so to answer your question, NO.
Don’t’ believe the doom and gloom people. Rejoice and do good work in the vineyard, pray fro the Church and her members, fast, and make sacrifices when you can.
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Verdanty
Guest
Not to be snappy, but I wasn’t aware the US ever was a Christian country,
A place where Christians live certainly, but I don’t recall anything akin to the Irish Constitution proclaiming the State to exist in the name of the Trinity.
A place where Christians live certainly, but I don’t recall anything akin to the Irish Constitution proclaiming the State to exist in the name of the Trinity.
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SuperLuigi
Guest
If you’re talking about America, the answer could be argued as yes. It’s not a numerical issue anymore, it’s one of Christians not following Christian teaching for their own selfish reasons that I’ve gone over on this site ad nauseam.
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JoyToTheWhirled
Guest
I think I’m living in a post-Christian country. My country has a long, wonderful history of Christianity, but that is just what it is now. History.
And I see that as a positive thing for the Good News. A complacency in faith leads to an innoculation against faith. It means an uphill battle for the Church, but God is with us.
And I see that as a positive thing for the Good News. A complacency in faith leads to an innoculation against faith. It means an uphill battle for the Church, but God is with us.
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Greenfields
Guest
Post Christian sounds so dead end and hopeless.So final.
It’s not a term I ever use
It’s not a term I ever use
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ATraveller
Guest
That runs on the assumption a country was Christian.
Being a Christian is more than calling one’s self a ‘Christian’. A real Christian is one who loves the Lord with all his or her soul, strength and mind. A real Christian endures in being faithful to God in this sinful world until the end.
If one looks back, was that really the case for most? I don’t believe it was. Christians have always been a minority.
The rapid disaffiliation shouldn’t necessarily be seen as a bad thing. I think it reveals who the true Christians with real faith are.
Being a Christian is more than calling one’s self a ‘Christian’. A real Christian is one who loves the Lord with all his or her soul, strength and mind. A real Christian endures in being faithful to God in this sinful world until the end.
If one looks back, was that really the case for most? I don’t believe it was. Christians have always been a minority.
The rapid disaffiliation shouldn’t necessarily be seen as a bad thing. I think it reveals who the true Christians with real faith are.
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Melodeonist
Guest
I believe that there will be more Christians than Atheists in the latter half of this century. Although our media, entertainment, and culture in general has long left morals behind, Christians have by far have more children than non religious. Don’t quote me on this, but I think that less people are getting married and less people are having children. I’d assume these people aren’t practicing Christians. Therefore, the non religious, unless they can persuade Christians to join them, will slowly but surely die out, making Christians outnumber them greatly.
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benjohnson
Guest
Yes! And I think it’s always been this way - people were just more comfortable claiming the default ‘christian’ when they were just sort-of-culturally-christian.
God gives us comfort by showing us that when Jesus heals ten people of their leprosy, only one retuned to thank Him.
God gives us comfort by showing us that when Jesus heals ten people of their leprosy, only one retuned to thank Him.
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Annie
Guest
I think our society, and the West, is in a post-Christian state, yes. The overall tenor of things in the US is only nominally Christian, if at all. This doesn’t mean there are no Christians, or even only a very few as is the case in Europe 
It’s just that our culture is not informed by Christianity; it is informed by secularism and sometimes even militant secularism.
Look at anything cultural in the US: media, entertainment, art of any kind–what of it is Christian in any way? And there is no cultural respect for Christianity at all, and often even animus against it.
Now, we never were a very Christian nation, but for much of our history, we had respect for Christian values, which were shared by most people at least publically. No more! Now we are more likely to hear derogation than laud.
All that being said, I think the problem in the Church in the US is different. The Church developed as an integral part of the community, and this was carried over here, where so many people lived within walking distance of the parish and most of them sent their children to the parish school.
After WW2, Catholics started moving into rapidly expanding suburbs, and the way the parish fit into the community changed; it was diluted by not being in a mostly Catholic neighborhood as before. People started watching tv instead of attending devotions or doing other Catholic things (described to me by someone else). Parishioners were not each others’ neighbors as they had been.
The Church was slow to keep up with these social changes (inasmuch as it has…). I think the biggest problem, and to some extent a similar phenomena has occurred in our society in general, is that there was a breakdown in the transmission of Catholic culture. To me, that is why Catholicism seems “watered down,” we are so deficient in the basics that depth is almost inaccessible.
Acknowledging that things have changed, no matter what we call it, is not giving in to hopelessness; it is the first step towards a solution.
It’s just that our culture is not informed by Christianity; it is informed by secularism and sometimes even militant secularism.Look at anything cultural in the US: media, entertainment, art of any kind–what of it is Christian in any way? And there is no cultural respect for Christianity at all, and often even animus against it.
Now, we never were a very Christian nation, but for much of our history, we had respect for Christian values, which were shared by most people at least publically. No more! Now we are more likely to hear derogation than laud.
All that being said, I think the problem in the Church in the US is different. The Church developed as an integral part of the community, and this was carried over here, where so many people lived within walking distance of the parish and most of them sent their children to the parish school.
After WW2, Catholics started moving into rapidly expanding suburbs, and the way the parish fit into the community changed; it was diluted by not being in a mostly Catholic neighborhood as before. People started watching tv instead of attending devotions or doing other Catholic things (described to me by someone else). Parishioners were not each others’ neighbors as they had been.
The Church was slow to keep up with these social changes (inasmuch as it has…). I think the biggest problem, and to some extent a similar phenomena has occurred in our society in general, is that there was a breakdown in the transmission of Catholic culture. To me, that is why Catholicism seems “watered down,” we are so deficient in the basics that depth is almost inaccessible.
Acknowledging that things have changed, no matter what we call it, is not giving in to hopelessness; it is the first step towards a solution.
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BornInMarch
Guest
Christians are still the majority in this country, and a lot of them are pretty serious about it.
Do we have glaring problems? Absolutely! You can tell society has warped ethics when child-murder is legal and defended by one of the two political parties (hearing “Right to Choose” makes me cringe), but we aren’t lost yet.
Do we have glaring problems? Absolutely! You can tell society has warped ethics when child-murder is legal and defended by one of the two political parties (hearing “Right to Choose” makes me cringe), but we aren’t lost yet.
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ATraveller
Guest
Self-identification is the worst way of measuring religiosity. Weekly attendance is the best and even then it has some problems. With that method, only 36% of all Americans attend services of any religion weekly. Of that, not all even believe in God. Of course, there are some who may not attend weekly and are religious but they are an insignificant minority.
(Attendance at religious services - Religion in America: U.S. Religious Data, Demographics and Statistics | Pew Research Center)
We need to recognize the current state of things and that the US and the rest of the West need to be evangelised. I believe pretending the West is still ‘Christian’ is unhelpful and leads to complacency.
I remember reading an article a few years ago about how a few South Korean ‘non-denominational’ churches were sending missionaries to the US. I don’t remember why but I wouldn’t be surprised if they thought the US was less Christian than South Korea, where Christians are a minority.
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BornInMarch
Guest
Just because someone doesn’t (or can’t) go to church every week doesn’t make him not a Christian. Many of them still believe in God and Jesus, pray to them, and hope that there will be a place in Heaven for them when they die.
Remember that even Saint Peter wasn’t sinless.
Remember that even Saint Peter wasn’t sinless.
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ATraveller
Guest
I didn’t intend to mean that at all. I know some who are very faithful Christians who don’t attend weekly because of their jobs or were very shy and introverted individuals and other circumstances.
But I did write that these Christians wouldn’t make up most of the people who don’t attend weekly and weekly attendance is still a flawed but better measure. There’s a good chance you can swap them with those who do attend weekly but don’t believe in God and you’ll end up with the same statistics. Most who attend less than weekly are really Christians in name only and very apathetic. In fact, it’s believed a significant portion of the growth in the ‘nones’ are due to ‘Christians in name only’ dropping the Christian label.
This is the condition of most of the 75% of Americans identifying with Christianity, in particular ‘God does not need to be particularly involved in one’s life except when God is needed to resolve a problem’ and ‘belief in a particular kind of God: one who exists, created the world, and defines our general moral order, but not one who is particularly personally involved in one’s affairs—especially affairs in which one would prefer not to have God involved’:
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Roseeurekacross
Guest
In God we trust.
Doesnt this make the States a Christian country?
Doesnt this make the States a Christian country?
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Mary_Ellen
Guest
There’s nothing in the OP’s profile that I could find to indicate which country he (I assume OP is male) is from but I’ll assume he is from the USA.
Yes, but it’s more a post-Christian Western society rather than just one country.
No, the Church is not watered down. She still stands for what she has always stood for. It’s our perception of her which has become watered down and, in some ways, the way she’s been presented to us by some representatives of the Church, religious, ordained, and lay representatives, that has been watered down.
Yes, but it’s more a post-Christian Western society rather than just one country.
No, the Church is not watered down. She still stands for what she has always stood for. It’s our perception of her which has become watered down and, in some ways, the way she’s been presented to us by some representatives of the Church, religious, ordained, and lay representatives, that has been watered down.
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michaelArc
Guest
Interesting point, but you’re assuming that people will only conceive children out of a traditional marriage.
I believe in the second half of the century, people in a post-Christian country will argue that they have the “right” to have a healthy child free of all potential ailments, as such children will be a made through a DNA selection process ordered from a lab. Heck, they may be able to order a child at different stages if raising a child from the beginning doesn’t suit them.
We now have same sex couples arguing they have the right to adopt. This will apply to just about anyone when marriage becomes redefined yet again and made into law to suit polygamists, open marriages and marriages on lease (Try this out for 10 years and see if this works out.)
I believe in the second half of the century, people in a post-Christian country will argue that they have the “right” to have a healthy child free of all potential ailments, as such children will be a made through a DNA selection process ordered from a lab. Heck, they may be able to order a child at different stages if raising a child from the beginning doesn’t suit them.
We now have same sex couples arguing they have the right to adopt. This will apply to just about anyone when marriage becomes redefined yet again and made into law to suit polygamists, open marriages and marriages on lease (Try this out for 10 years and see if this works out.)
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RandomAlias
Guest
Data from a census or survey does not define a Christian country. Say 75% of the population identifies themselves as Christian. How many have faith? How many live in accord with the Gospel? How many have the Law of Love written in their heart?
By these measures, I would say the US is a consumerist country, with Christianity glimmering like many small lamps shining in the darkness. And hasn’t it always been that way?
Christianity today faces different challenges. The challenges are different but not fundamentally worse or better. What is the sin of the day? Take your pick. It’s still, as it ever was, rooted in selfishness, self-centeredness, self-absorption. It’s a failure to love.
No, it is not post-Christian.
By these measures, I would say the US is a consumerist country, with Christianity glimmering like many small lamps shining in the darkness. And hasn’t it always been that way?
Christianity today faces different challenges. The challenges are different but not fundamentally worse or better. What is the sin of the day? Take your pick. It’s still, as it ever was, rooted in selfishness, self-centeredness, self-absorption. It’s a failure to love.
No, it is not post-Christian.
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Joe_5859
Guest
It needn’t be interpreted as such. I hear it all the time used simply as a descriptor (like “post-modern”). Though, as @Mary_Ellen said, it’s really the whole West, not just the U.S. The situation is generally better in the U.S. in a lot of ways than it is in many places in Europe.
I think there are many ways in which we are living in a post-Christian culture. This is what the recent popes refer to when calling for a new evangelization. It’s new in the sense that, rather than bringing the Gospel to a culture that has never heard it before, now we are trying to find ways to reintroduce it to cultures that have already heard the Gospel, but now feel like they’ve grown out of it. Hence the term “post-Christian.”
I just did a site search of the Vatican website for the term “post-Christian” and it does pop up in a few documents
Here are some citations. Click to expand if you are interested.
A few years ago, there was much talk of the secularized world, the post-Christian era. Fashion changes, but a profound reality remains. Christians today must be formed to live in a world which largely ignores God…
—Catechesi Tradendae 57
In this inculturation of the faith, there are different concrete tasks for catechesis. Amongst these mention must be made of:
…presenting the Christian message in such a way as to prepare those who are to proclaim the Gospel to be capable “of giving reasons for their hope” (1 Pt 3,15) in cultures often pagan or post-Christian: effective apologetics to assist the faith-culture dialogue is indispensable today.
—General Directory for Catechesis 110
Of course, this does not at all imply that all is lost or that we cannot ever be a Christian culture again. That is certainly not the case. It just means our situation is different, and so our approach to spreading the Gospel may need to be adjusted accordingly.
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