Are we losing potential converts?

[may_they_be_one]

Am I missing something? Does anyone else notice a disproportionate number of conversions happening in the non-Catholic/non-denominational Christian churches vs. Catholicism in developing countries?

I see publicity/web presence for several non-denominational Christian ministries that are converting (according to them) thousands upon thousands of non-western people groups, with evidence of significant miracles and amazing stories of faith in action, and planting hundreds of new “local” churches.

Is there something equivalent happening to Catholic missionaries? If not, what is limiting this? Do we just have too many “barriers” or delays to baptism/conversion/inclusion in the church (like the extensive RCIA process, etc)? Can a lay Catholic even “convert” a non-believer without a priest to administer sacramental baptism? I know anyone can baptize in an emergency, but I assume missionary work wouldn’t be considered an emergency…

Why does it seem like we’re missing the mark on missionary activity and evangelism in developing countries?

Any help would be really appreciated… I am really struggling with this!

 

[thomc1980]

I dont think the wait time is a barrier. As someone that is currently going through RCIA at the moment im glad for it because there is so much to take in. Two the fact that they want to make sure that i understand the beliefs before i profess that i believe them is a good thing as well. As far as converts go my RCIA class has some 20 people in in and that seems to be the norm for our parish as well. So we seem to have a pretty steady flow of new converts. Not sure if thats the norm everywhere though.

 

[bilop]

Am I missing something? Does anyone else notice a disproportionate number of conversions happening in the non-Catholic/non-denominational Christian churches vs. Catholicism in developing countries?

I see publicity/web presence for several non-denominational Christian ministries that are converting (according to them) thousands upon thousands of non-western people groups, with evidence of significant miracles and amazing stories of faith in action, and planting hundreds of new “local” churches.

Is there something equivalent happening to Catholic missionaries? If not, what is limiting this? Do we just have too many “barriers” or delays to baptism/conversion/inclusion in the church (like the extensive RCIA process, etc)? Can a lay Catholic even “convert” a non-believer without a priest to administer sacramental baptism? I know anyone can baptize in an emergency, but I assume missionary work wouldn’t be considered an emergency…

Why does it seem like we’re missing the mark on missionary activity and evangelism in developing countries?

Any help would be really appreciated… I am really struggling with this!

There are tons of conversions to Catholicism in Africa and Asia.

The issue in Latin America is that the countries were nearly all Catholic until the last generation. Now Protestant missionaries have swooped in and are converting those who are week in their faith.

Catholic missionaries wouldn’t be preaching to people who are already Catholic in any case. The issue is why do so many leave the Church? Often, it is because they want to do something that the Church deems sinful. Others are taken in by the “prosperity Gospel” many Evangelicals preach.

God Bless

 

[Rich_C]

Why does it seem like we’re missing the mark on missionary activity and evangelism in developing countries?

In my experience, American Catholics have been taught that being Catholic is not essential to salvation. It logically follows that they see no real need to spread the Faith.

By comparison, certain kinds of Protestants, even though their view of salvation contains errors, believe very strongly that non-Christians always go to Hell, so they logically try to proselytize.

 

[edwest2]

In my experience, American Catholics have been taught that being Catholic is not essential to salvation. It logically follows that they see no real need to spread the Faith.

By comparison, certain kinds of Protestants, even though their view of salvation contains errors, believe very strongly that non-Christians always go to Hell, so they logically try to proselytize.

I’m not following you on this. We should open our efforts in spreading the Gospel by first telling people they are going to hell?

The Church is interested in quality not quantity. Yes, I’ve been involved with a Charismatic Christian denomination in the past but their view of religion was the same as I was taught 40 years ago, and aside from a lack of certain things and variations in ceremonial practice, they had part of the fullness of the truth but not all of it. Let me remind everyone that we have Protestant ministers and Anglicans joining the Church because they have realized that what they were taught and believed was not the full truth, and some have seen changes in their Churches that they knew were just plain wrong.

There are about one billion Catholics on the planet and one Supreme Pontiff. The largest demographic since World War II , the fake name ‘baby boomers,’ are retiring or past their child-bearing years. During that time, they have been subjected to various attacks on their faith, and so, it has worn some of them down.

But we need more than just guessing.

gallup.com/poll/159050/seven-americans-moderately-religious.aspx

Peace,
Ed

 

[Kal2012]

1. My RCIA class is really small. I think there’s 6 of us and out of those - one is already Catholic, but needs to get confirmed and one person just started a couple of weeks ago. (We haven’t had our rite of acceptance yet.)

My husband who also went through RCIA (at a different parish before we met) said that he was kind of surprised because his class had 15-20 people in it. That seems more of the norm from what I’ve read.

Still, I like that the class is really small and I think that God puts you in the class that He wants you to be in.

1. I don’t know how to answer the question because it’s sooooo easy to be a protestant.

You just have to say you profess that Jesus is your personal Lord and Savior and have accepted him into your heart. It’s not like there is really much else, really. You aren’t required to do much of anything after that.

You don’t even have to believe it these days, but say it and people will assume that you really are a Believer - because so many are culturally Christian, but not actually living the life.

So, I’d have to say “No” I don’t think we are losing potential converts because if they are anything like me, they’ll eventually find that kind of belief empty and want more.

You really shouldn’t think of it as a numbers game. It’s one thing to convert someone, but if they don’t really Believe and change their life - is there really a conversion there?

At first, I was kind of miffed that I had to take a class - me, knowing a lot already about Catholicism/faith - but now, I realize that I don’t know as much as I thought (yes, pride got me again) and it’s really interesting meeting other people who are going through the experience of converting to the faith.

Being a Christian, really being and living the Christian life, isn’t as easy as some protestants make it sound.

I tend to think of Catholicism as the ‘graduate school’ of faith because nothing is hidden and you know your obligations when you decide to join the faith. It’s not just words and maybe showing up to church and maybe finding a church that you actually like. That kind of faith is so superficial.

Like edwest said, it’s quality, not quantity that Catholics should be shooting for.

 

[maltmom]

I tend to think of Catholicism as the ‘graduate school’ of faith because nothing is hidden and you know your obligations when you decide to join the faith. It’s not just words and maybe showing up to church and maybe finding a church that you actually like. That kind of faith is so superficial.

Welcome Home!!! I’m also a convert. Thank you for posting this. I’ve never thought of Catholicism that way.

 

[may_they_be_one]

You really shouldn’t think of it as a numbers game. It’s one thing to convert someone, but if they don’t really Believe and change their life - is there really a conversion there?

Being a Christian, really being and living the Christian life, isn’t as easy as some protestants make it sound.

Like edwest said, it’s quality, not quantity that Catholics should be shooting for.

Makes sense, from a limited N. American church perspective.

However, in China for example, when many people are converted and new whole churches are formed, they ask for preachers to preach to them 12+hours a day, several days in a row… without designated breaks. (There are literally tens of thousands of new churches formed in the past 40 years or so… from less than 10 million Christians to around 100 million!! Most of these churches are unregistered/illegal “house” churches where 20-100 people cram into homes/private spaces for services.)

You see, in the non-sanctioned “non-denominational” churches they don’t have bibles, and the new converts–so strongly converted through the visible power of the Holy Spirit (healings, etc) and the preaching of the Gospel–are so extremely HUNGRY to hear as much of the Word as possible.

To get a perspective of the type of non-denominational ministries (they don’t refer to themselves as protestant, as such) I’m referring to, I’d highly recommend watching one or more of the following documentaries: Finger of God, Furious Love, and Father of Lights (www.wpfilms.com).

I’d love to get your feedback!!!

 

[Milliardo]

What is happening is this: here in the Philippines, many adults and even children don’t know the basics of their faith. Many kids I go to mission areas don’t know the basic prayers like The Lord’s Prayer, Hail Mary or Glory. They don’t know the rosary. They don’t know the Trinity. Most are baptized and go to Mass but have little clue as to what the Catholic Church teaches (yes, ironic this is coming from an former Catholic and now Orthodox). Many are taken in by Evangelicals more because of fellowship or of the music. Just look at boxer Manny Pacquiao: before when he enters the ring he makes the sign of the cross and has a rosary. Then he was taken in by an Evangelical group and has left the Catholic Church. What is the Catholic Church here doing? Nothing. It is too busy with politics, wrangling with politicians than actually taking time to teach people. Add to that the charismatics with their Evangelical-style preaching and teaching, and you have a confused flock. That is the reality here.

 

[fred_conty]

The church has to do a better job teaching…but then who’s listening?
Isn’t the easy road that people want to hear about?

Just a short thought.

 

[rebecca123]

I live in Asia, as to this part, there are definitely not TONS of conversions to Catholicism. Yes, I think some of those things mentioned by the OP are barriers. Many people have never heard the plain gospel message. And I can’t figure out why lay people could only baptize in the case of 'emergency" which means I suppose , a baby born in a hospital who doesn’t have long to live or something of this nature. The Bible tells us to go and make disciples, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son and the Holy Ghost.

 

[llenadegracia]

What is happening is this: here in the Philippines, many adults and even children don’t know the basics of their faith. Many kids I go to mission areas don’t know the basic prayers like The Lord’s Prayer, Hail Mary or Glory. They don’t know the rosary. They don’t know the Trinity. Most are baptized and go to Mass but have little clue as to what the Catholic Church teaches (yes, ironic this is coming from an former Catholic and now Orthodox). Many are taken in by Evangelicals more because of fellowship or of the music. Just look at boxer Manny Pacquiao: before when he enters the ring he makes the sign of the cross and has a rosary. Then he was taken in by an Evangelical group and has left the Catholic Church. What is the Catholic Church here doing? Nothing. It is too busy with politics, wrangling with politicians than actually taking time to teach people. Add to that the charismatics with their Evangelical-style preaching and teaching, and you have a confused flock. That is the reality here.

Hmmm. That is very sad. As a young Catholic, I would say that a similar situation occurs frequently in the United States too. Recently I attended a retreat and a few of the girls were talking about getting married. One girl who is anticipating her boyfriend to propose within the next month or so, said, “Well when we get married, I figure I will just join his church”.

Her boyfriend is Baptist…it breaks my heart that she does not feel close enough to the Church. For her, leaving the Church is no big deal and not even something to think twice about. It’s heartbreaking.

 

[Kal2012]

One girl who is anticipating her boyfriend to propose within the next month or so, said, “Well when we get married, I figure I will just join his church”.

Her boyfriend is Baptist…it breaks my heart that she does not feel close enough to the Church. For her, leaving the Church is no big deal and not even something to think twice about. It’s heartbreaking.

Yeah, that is sad. As a convert, it’s sad to see how little cradle Catholics know about their faith. Even hearing my RCIA instructor talk about how little the kids in the parish know about their faith makes me upset because I would assume that if the kids were in church, then they would learn their faith. (Maybe I shouldn’t be so logical and have expectations, huh???)

That said, I’m always glad when I meet young people who love their faith, are educated in it and, actually, live it. That’s how I know that the future’s really going to be okay. There will still be light, even if the world gets darker.

You know that light shines even brighter when it gets darker, right?

 

[iloveangels]

There are tons of conversions to Catholicism in Africa and Asia.

True. I think both Protestants and Catholics are getting lots of converts in those parts of the world.

The issue in Latin America is that the countries were nearly all Catholic until the last generation. Now Protestant missionaries have swooped in and are converting those who are week in their faith.

That’s the conventional answer. What they don’t tell you is that many areas in Latin America haven’t had a priest for many decades and so people are only going on their original missionary memories and there isn’t much practice of Catholicism in many places in Latin America. There are also mixtures of Catholicism and folk religion, such as Santeria and Holy Death for this reason. Also when hispanics come to the US, they often will change to their own evangelical churches because Catholic parishes in many part of the country aren’t very hospitable to them, being set up on German, Irish, Polish or Italian ways of doing things as they are.

Catholic missionaries wouldn’t be preaching to people who are already Catholic in any case.

They should. We need at least as much Catholic missionary activity inside the Church as outside. Many Catholics don’t know their faith.

The issue is why do so many leave the Church? Often, it is because they want to do something that the Church deems sinful. Others are taken in by the “prosperity Gospel” many Evangelicals preach.

I wouldn’t be so accusitive and nasty about this. Many Catholics don’t know their faith and feel like they aren’t getting anything out of it as a result. Parishes can be pretty dead places most of the time, locked up all the time. This really bothers some people when they’re trying to get something out of religion, and can motivate them to go looking. Catholic parishes need to step up and be more interesting places.

 

[iloveangels]

In my experience, American Catholics have been taught that being Catholic is not essential to salvation. It logically follows that they see no real need to spread the Faith.

By comparison, certain kinds of Protestants, even though their view of salvation contains errors, believe very strongly that non-Christians always go to Hell, so they logically try to proselytize.

This is 100% true. Catholics act like they don’t quite realize what is at stake, and at any rate, certainly aren’t going to tell anybody this! It would be bad etiquette or something.

They’ve been encouraged to just coast along. The Catholic Church now has an enormous problem with mediocrity and members doing the bare minimum just to “get by.”

 

[llenadegracia]

Yeah, that is sad. As a convert, it’s sad to see how little cradle Catholics know about their faith. Even hearing my RCIA instructor talk about how little the kids in the parish know about their faith makes me upset because I would assume that if the kids were in church, then they would learn their faith. (Maybe I shouldn’t be so logical and have expectations, huh???)

That said, I’m always glad when I meet young people who love their faith, are educated in it and, actually, live it. That’s how I know that the future’s really going to be okay. There will still be light, even if the world gets darker.

You know that light shines even brighter when it gets darker, right?

I think a lot of this gap can be attributed to the current youth’s parents. People were not well catechized during the revolutionary changes of birth control and abortion becomming legalized. I am in college and I firmly believe that my parent’s generation really has caused this break in the process of catechizing youth (and adults). My parent’s generation went through a lot of change during the 60s-80s and many got buried under the lies of society. As a result, many simply cannot catechize their kids properly. I could be completely off, but that’s my perception of what happened.

But you are absolutely right! The light does shine brighter in the dark. God is powerful and He is alive in the world. There are many many young adults who fervently live their faith!

I belong to two different young adult groups. One is extremely rah-rah Papa Benedicto and the Catholic Church. This group follows the Church completely and digs deep into the faith but always maintains a respect for the Church. I am extremely blessed to be a part of this group. The other group I belong to is where I know the girl who made the comment about her Baptist boyfriend, “Well when we get married, I figure I will just join his church…” This second group is just a very sad and sticky situation. Out of 50 or so regular members (this is a college group on campus), only around 4 follow the Church on topics such as papal infallibility and contraception…many reject many teachings of the Church and view never second guess this “take what you like” mentality. It’s very sad and becomes extremely difficult because the 4 or so students who follow the doctrine of the Church are simply outnumbered. The students who do not simply have not been catechized. As time goes on and they become further set in their ways, it becomes more and more difficult to reach them. We are trying though to tell them about the beauty of the Truth…and it is slowly slowly working! Ok…sorry for that long little rant there! But please keep the youth and young adults of the Church in your prayers that they reach the Truth.

 

[kkollwitz]

My Bible-Belt experience from teaching RCIA and general observation is that Catholics who do not understand their faith from a Biblical perspective are easily converted out of Catholicism; while most converts know the Bible well, which is why they come to RCIA.

 

[llenadegracia]

My Bible-Belt experience from teaching RCIA and general observation is that Catholics who do not understand their faith from a Biblical perspective are easily converted out of Catholicism; while most converts know the Bible well, which is why they come to RCIA.

So true.

History also serves as a powerful resource. I consistently urge my Protestant friends to examine the history of their denomination…many have found that something just does not add up. I am really really hoping that the two who are closest towards coming home to the Church do…they are just inches away from beginning RCIA but are still unsure. It is understandably a big change. I pray with time that they come home.

 

[fnr]

True. I think both Protestants and Catholics are getting lots of converts in those parts of the world.

That’s the conventional answer. What they don’t tell you is that many areas in Latin America haven’t had a priest for many decades and so people are only going on their original missionary memories and there isn’t much practice of Catholicism in many places in Latin America.

AMEN! This hits the nail on the head. Priests are needed, sorely and desperately, in all parts of the world! Catholics are not just “people of the Book” as Muslims like to say of all the dhimmi (Christians, Jews, and Sabians). Belief is simply not enough.

Fundamentally, demography is destiny. Priests bring the totality of sacramental life. As a second-best, deacons can baptize and don’t need to wait for an emergency, unlike the laity. But fundamentally, though, the Eucharist is the core of our faith life. Priests are needed!

There are also mixtures of Catholicism and folk religion, such as Santeria and Holy Death for this reason. Also when hispanics come to the US, they often will change to their own evangelical churches because Catholic parishes in many part of the country aren’t very hospitable to them, being set up on German, Irish, Polish or Italian ways of doing things as they are.

Again, demography is destiny. Jesus wasn’t a white English-speaking European, and to act like he was is simply wrong. I love that my church has a Spanish-language mass. It’s busy!

I’ve heard the same comment (about immigrants leaving the Catholic church for other churches) about eastern European Catholics… people joining Orthodox churches (e.g., Ukranian, Slovenian) because the other churches are catering more to their ethnic experiences.

They should. We need at least as much Catholic missionary activity inside the Church as outside. Many Catholics don’t know their faith.

I wouldn’t be so accusitive and nasty about this. Many Catholics don’t know their faith and feel like they aren’t getting anything out of it as a result. Parishes can be pretty dead places most of the time, locked up all the time. This really bothers some people when they’re trying to get something out of religion, and can motivate them to go looking. Catholic parishes need to step up and be more interesting places.

Actually, I’d say it differently. Catholic parishes (“them”) need to step up, but we need to be the Church! The number of Catholics that participate in parish-affiliated activities outside of mass is relatively small. So many of us act as though mass is a weekly chore and obligation. We are the Church of Christ, and without all of us acting that way, we’re in trouble!

As the Holy Father has indicated, we in the West are taken over with a consumer culture that tells us that acquisition of goods should be our top priority. But as St. Paul tells us so eloquently, there are three things that last: faith, hope, and love, and the greatest of these is love. It’s so obvious that what everyone seeks is genuine connection with another human being. We are the Church, and connection is our forte!

 

[iloveangels]

Actually, I’d say it differently. Catholic parishes (“them”) need to step up, but we need to be the Church! The number of Catholics that participate in parish-affiliated activities outside of mass is relatively small. So many of us act as though mass is a weekly chore and obligation. We are the Church of Christ, and without all of us acting that way, we’re in trouble!

It’s more than that. The majority of the parishes in the US were founded when most Catholics were ethnic immigrants, most Catholics lived in the surrounding neighborhoods surrounded by Catholic neighborhoods of the same ethnicity as they. Most parishes were run by multiple priests and most Catholics had very poor educational backgrounds.

But most Catholics and parishes aren’t like that anymore, although we stubbornly insist that nothing needs to change. Even though what we’re doing IS NOT WORKING anymore. Parishes need to change practical arrangements to serve people better. Otherwise people have demonstrated that eventually they will leave. They might use one or another paths, and sometimes people use paths that save face, but they still leave. You can’t do the bare minimum and get away with it. Reality isn’t like that. People aren’t like that.

As the Holy Father has indicated, we in the West are taken over with a consumer culture that tells us that acquisition of goods should be our top priority. But as St. Paul tells us so eloquently, there are three things that last: faith, hope, and love, and the greatest of these is love. It’s so obvious that what everyone seeks is genuine connection with another human being. We are the Church, and connection is our forte!

But connection IS NOT OUR FORTE! If I get in my car right now and go down to the local parish, it will be CLOSED and there will not be a soul in sight. And not only because it’s Dec 26th. It’s that way nearly every single weeknight all year long. And the next parish is the same. And the parish in the next town too. It’s the same all over.

Catholic parishes empty out in an amazingly fast fashion after mass. Catholics can’t wait to get off the property. Their mass obligation over for the week, they’re on to other things. This has become a habit. It’s difficult to get Catholics to participate in anything else because they’ve been told that this is all there is to it, and that they are “good to go” if they attend that single mass. Many of them think they don’t even need to do that. They think they’re the Chosen People. Period. That’s the reality of Catholicism in the United States.

The Church has failed to provide a reasonable alternative for the culture of acquisition & entertainment simply because it’s absent from the scene most of the time. People who do not look outside the Church religiously for something to do, manage to find something else to do with their time, even if they would like a Church activity instead, because Church activities are not available to them. The message is, “if it’s not Sunday, do what you want, because you are covered. Just don’t get caught. But if you do, God will forgive you because you’re special. You’re Catholic. Have fun.”

People who are willing to look around a little bit and take a chance on a church activity sometimes end up at Protestant activities because they’re frequent and occur on weeknights. Sometimes they become protestants as a result.