Are we losing the pro-life battle?

[kaschmidt]

This thread jumped out at me as I too have been recently wondering if the pro-life movement shouldn’t try to emphasize / clarify two key points in pro-life messages / actions:

• the humanity of the unborn child (although it is unbelievable to most of us posting here, many people still don’t acknowledge an unborn child as deserving of human status and rights)
• real/active support and concern for women (which the abortion camp – they don’t deserve to hide behind the word “pro-choice” – like to claim as something only they champion).

Right now, I am at the point where I believe we have to:

• Remember and remind people that the “separation of church & state” is not about freedom FROM religion but freedom OF religion
• Live/spread the pro-life message locally as much as possible and WITH CHARITY, which is often a real challenge (including trying to keep our friends & family educated on the issues and accountable).
• Continue to educate ourselves on the issues, citing clear-thinking, moral Catholics (Father Tad the National Bioethics Center is one of my favorites to read - ncbcenter.org/ )
• Pray without ceasing.

May God heal and continue to bless our great nation.

 

[peacefulwarrior]

Who cares about the polls, what do they matter.
If 99 percent of the people stay quiet, and 1% of the people are yelling there hearts out, then who’s gonna be heard? Especially when the 99 percent arn’t saying anything?? Sheesh, thats nothing to be hopeful about. Call, yourself whatever you want, it’s what you do that matters. I can call my self, king of the chupacabra, but that doesn’t actually make me one. Sheesh, well my point is, LOOK AT HOW PEOPLE ACT!!

Calling yourself pro-life, doesn’t make you pro-life, like calling your self pro-choice doesn’t make you pro-choice.

 

[JFlats]

Hmmm … are we losing the pro-life battle? Still raging all around us who are the Body of Christ on earth.

But be of good cheer, Jesus said, I have overcome the world." Some versions say “conquered.” (John 16:33)

Jesus has already won the war against the culture of death by His passion, death and resurrection. Jesus did not promise us peace in this world. He brings division; see Luke 12:51-53 … and that verse only refers to the clashes within our families. Why should we not expect to be in conflict with those outside our homes, too?

By the way, I live in the Pacific Northwest and our local pro-life group was active in the recent fight against state initiative legalizing physician-assisted suicide. I made an ally of an activist lawyer–smart, active nationally and internationally on the assisted euthanasia issue–on THIS issue. I emphasize because she is “pro-choice” on abortion and absolutely rejects the use of any religious arguments. Unfortunately, like so many in our culture, for her “religion” includes “moral.” Ever try making a strictly secular argument on a life issue without touching on morality (e.g., the dignity of the human person, the rights of the human being, the issue of right and wrong)?

What you are left with is arguing … choice! Yup, her strongest point is that the terminally ill does not really have a choice when the assisted suicide law (in Oregon and now Washington) allows a potential heir to possibly witness the suicide. Or how can there be choice when there is so much secrecy?

And my goodness, we definitely don’t even want to touch the idea that once you allow legalized murder in the womb, it is a short hop-skip-jump to legalizing murder for the terminally ill.

[Sigh] … yet I love her for her passionate defense of those who would fall victim to assisted suicide. And so I maintain contact with her.

After all, over 20 years ago I became friends with a classmate who was president of a metro chapter of NOW. She organized support at the statehouse for pro-abort legislation. Guess what? She had a reversion back to the Catholic faith of her youth after a dramatic physical and emotional healing during a healing Mass.

So yes, rock on, stand up for life, uphold it, defend it. And know that Jesus leads us in this struggle.

After all, are we not the Church Militant??

 

[antunesaa]

Divorced and remarried are excluded from the sacraments because they are in continuing sin. They are not excommunicated.

Sorry if that first sentence sounds harsh, but I haven’t found a smoother way to state it. A few years back I was running an Adult Confirmation class . The class consisted of an oler woman who was in the process of getting her marriage convalidated and three or four younger women. At one point the older woman mentioned how she missed being able to receive Communion. One of the younger women asked why she couldn’t receive. As I frantically sought for some way to shield her, she responded, “Because I am living in sin honey child.” Some times the simple statement of facts is the only way to explain things.

Nice example. Sometimes I would like to have a glimpse of what the Allmighty thinks on these particular cases. How does God provide this woman with a means of salvation? I’m sure God loves her…

 

[antunesaa]

The pro-life movement begins at home and since it is likely that those who are pro-choice have much less children than their pro-life counterparts, soon we shall overtake them. (Okay–this is a joke–though out of all my liberal friends in College, it is at least true for me!)

I don’t think it’s a joke. Actually it’s true. Pro-choicers have to outproselitize pro-lifers because they have fewer children. This means that if we teach our children the beauty of life and if we instill them the love for the unborn, then eventually we will, in some generations, defeat the pro-choice movement.

 

[antunesaa]

We have lost many significant pro-life battles, we have won a few, and we’re losing and will lose many battles under the Obama Administration. We should never quit fighting the war and we should never lose hope that we will win some day.

Spiritual warfare is never easy – each of us must do our part in the fighting, however small it may seem. Again, we cannot give up.

I agree with you. We must not despair. I have huge discussions with my friends and sometimes I feel so alone. Even my practicing catholic friends (as opposed to non-practicing catholic friends, as in my country, Portugal, 95% of the population is catholic) stay quiet in many discussions. But then abortion was legal for centuries and centuries, eventually was forbidden in some places in the 18th century, and stayed so until 40 years ago. Maybe within a century it will be extinguished.

 

[aicirt]

You may want to look at some of the threads and posts regarding the NDU scandal. There apparently is no simple solution such as the Pope calling Jenkins. In fact, I may possibly be mistaken, , but I understand Jenkins can be called to task only by the superior of his order. I keep forgetting which one that is. Also, the only thing Bishop D’Arcy could do as a “punishment” for ND is to strip her of the right to be called Catholic. This he doesn’t want to do because he believes there is still hope for the University in that observation of the Mass and other Sacraments such as Reconciliation is observed by many students and faculty there.

Sorry didn’t mean to derail the thread, but just wanted to clear up some misconceptions.

I believe he can be called to task by the head of the Holy Cross Order which, I believe, is in Rome.
And that is my point…The Pope is the head of the Church. The Church has said abortion is an intrinsic evil. We’ve had this evil in the US for 40 years. It isn’t something novel that just came up out of nothing. There’s been challenges coming from NDU for some time. Bottom line…it’s good to be Pope when you can pick up the phone and say “NO, you aren’t doing this.” Too Simple? Yes. Effective? Yes. Would Fr. Jenkins have said “NO”. I doubt it. And there wouldn’t have been a scandal. I’m shocked about this. I was also shocked to discover NDU has “The Vagina Monologues”, a play, on its campus, for years. You can’t tell the laity to go out and march and have this happen at a Catholic university.

 

[aicirt]

They have excommunicated themselves rather than being given a formal excommunication. This is the same as the pols. According to their public voting image, they are receiving the Eucharist sacriligeously. Some weak kneed hierarchy here in the states claim they cannot read minds; that we must not judge these folks: this is their excuse to avoid forbidding these pols the Sacraments. There was a day, long ago, when the sanctity of the Sacraments was primary. With many clergy today this is not so. And they wonder why the Church is losing ground.

Agree completely. If you are going to say abortion is evil, a sin, it is murder, than you MUST back your words up with action. Otherwise, it is meaningless. I get it. The priests and bishops must get it too.

 

[aicirt]

Wuerl has said he would uphold Bishop Finn’s decision to deny Communion to Sibelius. Let’s see if he sticks to it.

That’s good to hear but the bishops will have to have a united front because it isn’t just Sibelius. There’s Pelosi, Biden, Kennedy, Kerry etc. Do it for one, be prepared to do it to all.

 

[pyro_alchemist]

That’s good to hear but the bishops will have to have a united front because it isn’t just Sibelius. There’s Pelosi, Biden, Kennedy, Kerry etc. Do it for one, be prepared to do it to all.

It is pretty presumptuous of us laymen to tell the successors of the apostles what to do.

 

[elts1956]

Who cares about the polls, what do they matter.
If 99 percent of the people stay quiet, and 1% of the people are yelling there hearts out, then who’s gonna be heard? Especially when the 99 percent arn’t saying anything?? Sheesh, thats nothing to be hopeful about. Call, yourself whatever you want, it’s what you do that matters. I can call my self, king of the chupacabra, but that doesn’t actually make me one. Sheesh, well my point is, LOOK AT HOW PEOPLE ACT!!

Calling yourself pro-life, doesn’t make you pro-life, like calling your self pro-choice doesn’t make you pro-choice.

So you are saying words are empty and have no power?

 

[GilChrist77]

I didn’t read the whole thread so I’m sorry if this was already said.

I know how easy it is to get caught up in thinking in the big picture, but I think this is a case of looking at the smaller picture. If you directly or indirectly safe one child from being aborted, that is amazing. Also it’s really important to remember that Jesus promised that the gates of Hell will NEVER prevail against the Church, in this time of darkness we NEED to cling to that promise. Jesus will NEVER go back on a promise that He makes. EVER!!!

JMJ+
~Betsy

Totus tuus Maria!

 

[elts1956]

That’s good to hear but the bishops will have to have a united front because it isn’t just Sibelius. There’s Pelosi, Biden, Kennedy, Kerry etc. Do it for one, be prepared to do it to all.

As far as I know, Bishop Finn is the only one to take advantage of his perogative to chastize a pro abort pol., Sibileus. Wuerl has many pro abort pols in his jurisdiction that he could call on the reception of the Eucharist, but he hasn’t. I do get very disgusted with these fellows circumnavigation of the rules they should uphold. There are many who are staying silent.

 

[peacefulwarrior]

When you don’t do anything, you don’t know if the words are even the truth. Words, can lie any day. So, they should be considered empty.

People can lie, people will lie. Sombody say’s they are pro-life. But, voted for everything but anything that was pro-life. Becuase they said they are pro-life make them pro-life? Not, according to their actions.

 

[elts1956]

That’s good to hear but the bishops will have to have a united front because it isn’t just Sibelius. There’s Pelosi, Biden, Kennedy, Kerry etc. Do it for one, be prepared to do it to all.

I believe he can be called to task by the head of the Holy Cross Order which, I believe, is in Rome.
And that is my point…The Pope is the head of the Church. The Church has said abortion is an intrinsic evil. We’ve had this evil in the US for 40 years. It isn’t something novel that just came up out of nothing. There’s been challenges coming from NDU for some time. Bottom line…it’s good to be Pope when you can pick up the phone and say “NO, you aren’t doing this.” Too Simple? Yes. Effective? Yes. Would Fr. Jenkins have said “NO”. I doubt it. And there wouldn’t have been a scandal. I’m shocked about this. I was also shocked to discover NDU has “The Vagina Monologues”, a play, on its campus, for years. You can’t tell the laity to go out and march and have this happen at a Catholic university.

When you don’t do anything, you don’t know if the words are even the truth. Words, can lie any day. So, they should be considered empty.

People can lie, people will lie. Sombody say’s they are pro-life. But, voted for everything but anything that was pro-life. Becuase they said they are pro-life make them pro-life? Not, according to their actions.

Many don’t have the foggiest of what Pro Life means. I agree actions speak louder than words, but there was a time in history when a persons “word” was law and few civil laws were necessary. Woe, to those who went back on their word. They were ousted from society.

 

[paulonei]

You must not stop fighting pro-life! I live in a country where abortion is illegal: Brazil. But unfortunately there is too much influence from the countries where abortion is legal. There are lots of people trying to force legalizing abortion in Brazil, beginning in the United Nations. After 1973, many European countries legalized abortion. Last times, Portugal an Mexico, two Catholic countries, approved pro-abortion laws. So I think the pro-life fight must not stop in your country, because it was one of the beginning points of this war (united with Russia, China, etc., pioneers of pro-death laws). It is all very, very sad…

 

[wcknight]

How can anyone say we are losing when we are finally turning the corner, in spite of the US electing a pro-choice president, last year was the very first year that folks favored pro-life over pro-choice 51 % of folks are in favor of pro-life now. In years past, pro-choice folks were up over 60%.

We won’t be satisfied until folks are 100% pro-life but we are making head way. There are now 4 or 5 Catholics on the Supreme Court, including Chief Justice Roberts. Now if they would only vote their faith as they should.

 

[aicirt]

It is pretty presumptuous of us laymen to tell the successors of the apostles what to do.

When the Pope has said abortion is an intrinsic evil, do you think it is presumptuous to continuously disgregard this successor of Peter and give scandal? And, even after warnings, receive communion?

 

[Joe_Kelley]

I think it was Mother Theresa that said, “God does not ask us to be successful, just faithful.” We are not here to win the battle, just to fight it. God will win it whenever He thinks the time is right.

Note Judges 7:2-7

2 The LORD said to Gideon, “The people with you are too many for me to give the Midianites into their hand, lest Israel vaunt themselves against me, saying, ‘My own hand has delivered me.’ 3 Now therefore proclaim in the ears of the people, saying, ‘Whoever is fearful and trembling, let him return home.’” And Gideon tested them; * twenty-two thousand returned, and en thousand remained. 4 And the LORD said to Gideon, “The people are still too many; take them down to the water and I will test them for you there; and he of whom I say to you, ‘This man shall go with you,’ shall go with you; and any of whom I say to you, ‘This man shall not go with you,’ shall not go.” 5 So he brought the people down to the water; and the LORD said to Gideon, "Every one that laps the water with his tongue, as a dog laps, you shall set by himself; likewise every one that kneels down to drink."6 And the number of those that lapped, putting their hands to their mouths, was three hundred men; but all the rest of the people knelt down to drink water. 7 And the LORD said to Gideon, “With the three hundred men that lapped I will deliver you, and give the Midianites into your hand; and let all the others go every man to his home.”

 

[avpadriga]

First let me say that I am extremely Pro-life. I do not think abortion should be allowed in any case. Including rape, incest, or deformity. Only to save the mother’s life in extreme cases (ectopic pregnancy is really the only case) and that involved removing damaged tissue.

I live on the west coast in the pacific northwest, and as everyone knows, we are one of the most liberal, non-christian regions in the country so I may be despairing a but here. But we’ll see what you think.

From what I can see, we are not gaining any ground in the protection of the unborn. It REALLY sucks, and for me it is incredibly infuriating. Something I was thinking while discussing this with a rather pro-choice friend of mine was abandoning the recriminalization for now. Don’t get me wrong, I will ALWAYS vote pro-life, and I will ALWAYS support the recriminalization of it. But what if we focus our energy and funding MORE on trying to support women when faced with a “tough” decision. We work to try to eliminate the need for abortion, and change the opinions of the people so when, years down the road, the opinions have shifted, and the number of abortions goes down, it can be recriminalized, eliminatingthe few who are left that would still do such a horrible thing.

U.S.A. is the most powerful country, the most promising, most educated and the land of the brave. But I refused to believed that that people will do such thing that we call abortion, I refused to believed that mother will kill their own baby, I refused to believed that women could not understand the life of the unborn child in their wombs. Land of the brave but cowards to face the truth of life.
Thank you for posting for such topic.

Your brother in Christ