Are we merely a computer simulation?

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I just watched the show ‘Through the Wormhole with Morgan Freeman’. The topic was Is there a Creator? They presented some good arguments, but I think they leaned a little atheistic. Anyway, they presented the absurd-sounding argument that humanity is merely a computer simulation of a ‘simulation runner’- God. They put forth a compelling argument, I must say.

Since I can’t articulate it adequately, here’s a link:
simulation-argument.com/

Thoughts?
 
coolduude said:
I just watched the show ‘Through the Wormhole with Morgan Freeman’. The topic was Is there a Creator? They presented some good arguments, but I think they leaned a little atheistic. Anyway, they presented the absurd-sounding argument that humanity is merely a computer simulation of a ‘simulation runner’- God. They put forth a compelling argument, I must say.

Since I can’t articulate it adequately, here’s a link:
simulation-argument.com/

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Sounds like they watched too many re-runs of The Matrix. Then again, it has been suggested we are merely organisms living on the back of a flea riding on a dog’s tail.
Of course you could go down the path of Bishop GeorgeBerkeley, who suggested we only exist as long as God thinks us as existing. He wrote that all abjects are ideas and the world is idea dependent. The complexity and certainty of that world are because the all wise, all knowing Creator creats those ideas for us. That old conundrum of the tree in the forest, is it really there if there is no-one there to see it, is solved by Berkeley, who tells us God is there to see it. So, maybe we really do live in a Matrix. Is it a simulation? Berkeley’s idea gives us an all powerful, benevolent God. The idea of a matrix, a simulation being run on some super computer does not give us the same benevolent, all powerful God, but a pretty smart dude nonetheless. I just hope he’s paid up to date on his electricity account!
 
coolduude said:
I just watched the show ‘Through the Wormhole with Morgan Freeman’. The topic was Is there a Creator? They presented some good arguments, but I think they leaned a little atheistic. Anyway, they presented the absurd-sounding argument that humanity is merely a computer simulation of a ‘simulation runner’- God. They put forth a compelling argument, I must say.

Since I can’t articulate it adequately, here’s a link:
simulation-argument.com/

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
A simulation does not have to be computer generated. I don’t know if it is a simulation rather than a concrete extension in to objectivity, but it could just as easily be a simulation with mathematics as its basic underlying code. The fact is, there is no way of telling the difference.

However, we are not true reality (our own reality), we are in fact generated and sustained in reality (By God who is reality). So in a certain sense one can feel compelled to say that we are in fact a simulation being run by Gods mind. But it depends on what we mean by the words simulation and objective reality. The two concepts can blur into one another. If there is only such a thing as a simulation being run by Gods imagination, then what is objectivity other than to say that we perceive things which our minds do not will?

Interesting subject.
 
The fact that I can feel pain is significant enough for me to accept the reality of the world around me - that is at least until I see some evidence to the contrary that is not just speculation or conjecture.
 
I would think it completely logical to say that if God ceased to think our existence, then we would cease to exist. However, God could not, by his own nature, cease to think our existence. It is similar to why Descartes comes to know we are not a simulation, although he calls it more of an evil demon rather than a computer simulation. We have our own reality because God willed us into existence, and wills our continued existence on this earth. Everything that we are is dependent on God and is intentionally made (or thought) by Him. He could not think us out of existence because, by being a good God, he created us by love alone and loved us as his creatures. If he were to cease to do this, he never could have been God, which causes a logical fallacy. Therefore, we must always exist in both “our” reality and “God’s” reality, which are in fact the same reality from different points of view.
 
Maybe becoming very familiar with the gospels and the letters of the apostles, and the Catechism of the Catholic Church would help some folk avoid potentially faith threatening and entertaining but suspect speculation…😉

Scripture does warn us:
“Have nothing to do with the pointless philosophical discussions and antagonistic beliefs of the ‘knowledge’ which is not knowledge at all; by adopting this, some have gone right away from the faith. Grace be with you.” [1 Timothy 6 20-21]

“The time is sure to come when, far from being content with sound teaching, people will be avid for the latest novelty and collect themselves a whole series of teachers according to their own tastes; and instead of listening to the truth, they will turn to myths.” [2 Timothy 3:3-5]

The bible, the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Canon Law…these are some of the documents that are available in full on the internet…
 
Trishie- While these documents are central to any debate in Catholicism that can be deemed meaningful, there is absolutely nothing wrong with debating philosophy in order that we might gain closer faith or a better understanding of God. St. Anselm coined the term “Fides quaerens intellectum” faith seeking understanding, to sum up the reason why he was a philosopher and a saint. Likewise Thomas Aquinas studied both Augustine and Aristotle to arrive at some of the greatest theological proofs in history, many of which are the basis for the Catechism itself. So while I agree that useless philosophical debate is a waste of the mind, this particular topic has been covered and is an important, and sometimes interesting, debate to continue having. And with you I do pray that all do it to seek understanding, not merely to poke holes in a Catholic Christian doctrine which has been continually defended for centuries.
 
This is clearly postmodern belief, it’s based on anti-realism, the problem is how do you refute such views other than it’s self-defeating?
 
It would explain why my graphic resolution is so poor - I need more pixels NOW!!! 😃
 
coolduude said:
I just watched the show ‘Through the Wormhole with Morgan Freeman’. The topic was Is there a Creator? They presented some good arguments, but I think they leaned a little atheistic. Anyway, they presented the absurd-sounding argument that humanity is merely a computer simulation of a ‘simulation runner’- God. They put forth a compelling argument, I must say.

Since I can’t articulate it adequately, here’s a link:
simulation-argument.com/

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
You know, we just MIGHT be something similar to a simulation. We may even not have free will in the truest sense, in that a simulation can only run random action generation to a specified degree. Bottom line, however, is that the universe is finite and we can’t know anything emperically about what is outside that finite boundary.

The question is: does it matter? Does it matter if we’re just a “programming” God’s simulation running inside of His “computer”? No, not really. Faith is still the same either way.

Second: does it matter if there is free will or not? No. Orson Scott Card goes into this subject nicely: whether or not there is free will, we have to ASSUME and ACT like there is, otherwise society ceases to function as we can no longer hold the guilty at blame for their actions, nor can we praise the heroic for their deeds. If there is no will, there is no responsibility, and so society ONLY moves along on the assumption that we have free will.

In other words, the show is speculating. They have no way of scientifically knowing anything of the sort, and the idea that we don’t have free will is fanciful, but entirely useless in human existance… so don’t worry about their program because ultimately it doesn’t change a darned thing.
 
MindOverMatter2 said:
A simulation does not have to be computer generated. I don’t know if it is a simulation rather than a concrete extension in to objectivity, but it could just as easily be a simulation with mathematics as its basic underlying code. The fact is, there is no way of telling the difference.

However, we are not true reality (our own reality), we are in fact generated and sustained in reality (By God who is reality). So in a certain sense one can feel compelled to say that we are in fact a simulation being run by Gods mind. But it depends on what we mean by the words simulation and objective reality. The two concepts can blur into one another. If there is only such a thing as a simulation being run by Gods imagination, then what is objectivity other than to say that we perceive things which our minds do not will?

Interesting subject.
Click to expand...
If we are generated and sustained in reality, then the obvious conclusion is that God is constantly thinking our existence. If we acept this, then the next question is, to what extent does God constantly create the reality we experience? If he is constantly generating our reality, then are we not on the road to accepting derterminism? Is God constantly thinking ahead with his ‘programming’ and giving us choices, or did God simply bring everything into being and then, in a hands off approach, leave us to build our own reality? Is God thinking us and our children and our yet to be born grandchildren into existence? Or did He simply plonk Adam and Eve onto planet earth and let the “program” build itself? For that “program” to build itself, for us to make choices as to who and what we become, then we need “free will” built into the “program”, or it wont function. If the “program” is reliant upon a God constantly thinking our existence, then he hasn’t built in “free will” and so must continuously and forever determine what transpires. Then, if this is so, there can never be any “what ifs”.
 
promethius said:
You know, we just MIGHT be something similar to a simulation. We may even not have free will in the truest sense, in that a simulation can only run random action generation to a specified degree. Bottom line, however, is that the universe is finite and we can’t know anything emperically about what is outside that finite boundary.

The question is: does it matter? Does it matter if we’re just a “programming” God’s simulation running inside of His “computer”? No, not really. Faith is still the same either way.

Second: does it matter if there is free will or not? No. Orson Scott Card goes into this subject nicely: whether or not there is free will, we have to ASSUME and ACT like there is, otherwise society ceases to function as we can no longer hold the guilty at blame for their actions, nor can we praise the heroic for their deeds. If there is no will, there is no responsibility, and so society ONLY moves along on the assumption that we have free will.

In other words, the show is speculating. They have no way of scientifically knowing anything of the sort, and the idea that we don’t have free will is fanciful, but entirely useless in human existance… so don’t worry about their program because ultimately it doesn’t change a darned thing.
Click to expand...
Is it dogma to belive we have free will as the CCC defines it?
If so, have you just stated it should be an optional belief for one who wishes to believe in Christ?
 
John21652 said:
If we are generated and sustained in reality, then the obvious conclusion is that God is constantly thinking our existence. If we acept this, then the next question is, to what extent does God constantly create the reality we experience? If he is constantly generating our reality, then are we not on the road to accepting derterminism?
Click to expand...
We would apparently be on that road anyway, since it is Gods existence that actualises and sustains us in reality. God actualises every contingent thought that you have. Every thought that you have is possible only by Gods power and will, since that which is contingent has no intrinsic reality of its own. Thus God has to manifest it. In a very real sense we exist in God. Our essences participates in Gods reality. We exist precisely because God is thinking of our existence.

How God does this and maintains our freewill is difficult to understand. But we know that we have freewill.
 
StrawberryJam said:
Is it dogma to belive we have free will as the CCC defines it?
Click to expand...
I should imagine so, since without free will there is no moral culpability and it is heresy to believe in predestination anyway.
If so, have you just stated it should be an optional belief for one who wishes to believe in Christ?
Click to expand...
Not in the slightest. Approaching it from the secular view, however, even if we ARE preconditioned simulations or otherwise lack free will, it doesn’t really matter. In order for society to function, we MUST assume that there is free will.

Basically, when St Paul says not to waste time on useless philosophies, the idea that we are God’s computer simulation without free will falls into that category: utterly uselesss because even if it is true it doesn’t change a single thing about our required assumptions and therefore our attitudes towards justice and reward. IOW… it’s not a topic worth discussing.
 
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