Are we rational or irrational?

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GEddie said:
Change is not illusory. And time is the index of entropic change.

While GOD Himself does not “occupy” time, HE can occupy a being that is bound by time, namely, our LORD’s HUMAN BODY.

Our Lord’s body, just like every"body", was timebound before HIS death, which caused HIM to be able to die. Time is the measure of entropy. Entropy causes us to die.

GOD Bless and ICXC NIKA
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So you are in the God in a “man suit” camp - God was only pretending to be human. His “body” wasn’t God. It was only an illusion that he “became man”. Doesn’t sound like Catholicism to me.

CCC
470 Because “human nature was assumed, not absorbed”,97 in the mysterious union of the Incarnation, the Church was led over the course of centuries to confess the full reality of Christ’s human soul, with its operations of intellect and will, and of his human body. In parallel fashion, she had to recall on each occasion that Christ’s human nature belongs, as his own, to the divine person of the Son of God, who assumed it. Everything that Christ is and does in this nature derives from “one of the Trinity”. The Son of God therefore communicates to his humanity his own personal mode of existence in the Trinity. In his soul as in his body, Christ thus expresses humanly the divine ways of the Trinity
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what is SOOO simple has been made so astonishingly complex by the Church! Why?
 
Ranklyfrank said:
what is SOOO simple has been made so astonishingly complex by the Church! Why?
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Because the Holy Church is run by professional philosophers, and confusing chains of abstraction is what philosophers do???🙂

ICXC NIKA
 
Yep. Just like trying to "explain’ a mystical experience to somebody. No smileys for that one! Have fun!
 
tonyrey said:
What about souls?
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What about souls? :confused:

If you’re yet again asking whether I believe we have a soul please go back over this thread, or I can add it to my sig if you like:
tonyrey – YES we have a soul
Faith, hope, love - Are the sum of perfection on earth; love alone is the sum of perfection in heaven. Wesley’s Notes on 1 Cor 13:13
😃
 
GEddie said:
That does not prove they don’t exist, but only that we as live human beings ae not to traffic in them.
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The Bible also mentions astrology, another sham. It genuinely surprises me that anyone can believe in ghosts, zombies, werewolves, vampires, etc., to me they are obviously made up, it goes straight over my head.
A woman manages to channel the prophet Samuel during the kingship of Saul, something that could not happen if Samuel had ceased being.
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The passage says only the witch sees a ghostly figure. Mediums are oxygen thieves, they either fool themselves or fool others. Looked it up - the Septuagint describes her as a ventriloquist, spot on, smoke and mirrors.
But HE does NOT say they don’t exist, only that HE isn’t one, as HE has solid hands and feet, which a “ghost” would not have. If “ghosts” did not exist, why talk about hands and feet? Simply say “I am not a ghost, such do not exist”???
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Thing is Jesus never gets diverted from the point in hand, which here is to convince the disciples He is flesh. If He said ghosts don’t exist, one or more disciples would stop listening and think “well here’s a poser, a ghost saying ghosts don’t exist. How come ghosts don’t exist? My uncle said he saw a ghost once, but then he is fond of a tipple. Should I ask a question about it? etc.” 🙂
His teaching in Luke 16:19-31 shows that to HIS knowledge (!!!) deceased human beings do NOT cease being.
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Jesus uses the language of His audience, angels carrying Lazarus to Abraham’s side. There’s no need for that - every moment of our lives will always exist in time and we can be rescued immediately or at the last trumpet. God isn’t constrained by time.

Anyway, Jesus doesn’t talk about a ghost, He has Abraham say “they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead”, i.e. bodily resurrection not a bit of gauze on the end of a broom handle. 😃
 
inocente said:
Ahem. One more time: YES

There was a thread a while back about where the soul is located, and the range of views was quite surprising. Another thread on what heaven is like also produced a wide range, and I suspect that if we went into how the soul is transported there we’d find yet another range.

The plain fact is that no one really has a clue and it seems few if any want to scrupulously analyze our personal take in depth. Without wanting to offend, we can interpret scripture or appeal to tradition or quote from theories, but they were also written by men. The only way to know for sure is something we’ll all eventually experience, so meanwhile if I say potato and you say potaato, it doesn’t change anything.

Except of course I’m invincible. 😃

We live by faith, not by sight. My favorite psalm (131) is about the soul. You may know that Bernstein set it to music, so after the tormented bit sing along and maybe we can come to (a grudging :)) agreement somewhere: Bow Valley Chorus, Chichester Psalms 3rd mvmt + finale (direct translation from Hebrew here).
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If we have a soul why do you think that “when we die we cease to exist until the trumpet sounds”? Does the soul die? :confused:
 
tonyrey said:
If we have a soul why do you think that “when we die we cease to exist until the trumpet sounds”? Does the soul die? :confused:
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No. We creatures are limited in time to the present moment, and only appear to exist from our birth to our death. But God is omnitemporal, for Him all moments of time always exist. If you like He sees time as if it’s a movie. He can dip into the movie to take us at the point where we die, and as He is unlimited can do this immediately or at the last trumpet.

This of course dispenses with a whole bunch of traditional theorizing, but Baptists are always happy to do that for, to re-quote 1 Cor 1, “Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles”. 🙂
 
inocente said:
but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles”. 🙂
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And aye, there’s the rub! All of those alternatives ignore the one that is least popular and in my considerations the most likely.
 
The one that stems from Jesus’ Teaching that “I and my Father are One” in its congruity with non dualism.
 
Ranklyfrank said:
The one that stems from Jesus’ Teaching that “I and my Father are One” in its congruity with non dualism.
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Jesus is speaking in a very particular context where “non-dualism” logically applies. Jesus is one with father insofar as they share the same divine nature. In that respect there is no dualism. But, while Jesus and the father are the same and one God, Jesus and the “father” is not them same person.
 
MindOverMatter2 said:
Jesus is speaking in a very particular context where “non-dualism” logically applies. Jesus is one with father insofar as they share the same divine nature. In that respect there is no dualism. But, while Jesus and the father are the same and one God, Jesus and the “father” is not them same person.
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Yes, and?
 
MindOverMatter2 said:
Jesus is speaking in a very particular context where “non-dualism” logically applies. Jesus is one with father insofar as they share the same divine nature. In that respect there is no dualism. But, while Jesus and the father are the same and one God, Jesus and the “father” is not them same person.
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I don’t see the significance of the distinction. What is the significance to you?
 
Ranklyfrank said:
The one that stems from Jesus’ Teaching that “I and my Father are One” in its congruity with non dualism.
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The dualism of mind and matter is subordinate to the monism implicit in the ultimate oneness of God, the Supreme Reality and Creator of all that exists:

“In Him we live, move and have our being”.
 
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