Are we required to give up meat on Fridays in the US?

[wifeandmomoftwo]

It wasn’t a personal attack, just an observation. If Paul talks about dietary laws then sums it up with a plea for people to realize that the Gospel is for Gentiles too, then he is talking about mosaic ritual purity laws. To read that as a rebuke of penitential fasting betrays a reading problem. Sorry if that is offensive.

sorry but this is what happens when people are left to their own devises to interpret scripture.

 

[brotherhrolf]

Now there’s a Fruedian slip if ever I heard one. I actually may have to use that one in my sig on another board.

Ya gotta long way to go bro in understanding. Done my genealogy, done my history, my father and his family were protestant. Your family was Catholic not so awful long ago. Did you ever think that we just might have a different way of viewing things and that your ancestors believed it too? As Southerners we know the value of history. Why are you denying yours?

I grew up in Catholic New Orleans. My family has been here since the 1760s. I had ancestors of mine who stood shoulder to shoulder with Andy Jackson at the Battle of New Orleans and others which served the Confederacy. Catholics, my friend, Catholics.

And yet, you deny us our heritage and deny what we down here in Louisiana know only too well. Let’s talk about Nathan Bedford Forrest or the Knights of the White Camellia. Your rhetoric is no different from theirs.

I am a Catholic and by the grace of God I am a Southerner as were my ancestors. Freudian slip? Hardly. I know my faith and when I say something is a discipline of the church I mean it. I know my history. I know that New Orleans, south Louisiana, the Mississippi Gulf Coast, the Alabama Gulf Coast and the Western Florida Gulf Coast were all…ALL…solidly Catholic.

So let’s take our argument to 1860…am I no less a Southerner? And if we take our argument to 1860 can we not take it back to 16th century England and Scotland. Can we ignore what was done to my Irish ancestors?

I don’t need scripture…all I need is history.

 

[Hijikata]

I reported war_eagle for derailing the thread and turning the discussion elsewhere. Also for calling the purgatory a fairytale were purgatory has not even been mentioned in this thread.

 

[arieh0310]

Back to the original topic, this author thinks that meatless Fridays are still binding: lumengentleman.com/content.asp?id=220

I have read it twice and the argument seems convincing, though I haven’t spent much time verifying his claims.

 

[THurifer2]

Bottom line is that if you are not going to abstain from meat you have to abstain from something else you normally enjoy or do an act of penance.

Ken

Not true and act of charity can be used in the the observance.

Somthing like say praying for war eagles conversion to the one true apostolic faith…

I am wondering if war eagle thinks the bible fell out of the sky?

And how he can reconcile the fact that sola scritura is an oxymoron? I mean it is the pillar of protestantism…but that pillar cannot be found in the bible? In fact the only Pillar besides lots wife found in the bible is a mentioned that the church is the foundation and pillar of truth…What church would that be? One thats only a few hundred years old? Protestantism is caused and sustained by Pride. Pride is the root of all evil.

 

[war_eagle]

And how he can reconcile the fact that sola scritura is an oxymoron? I mean it is the pillar of protestantism…but that pillar cannot be found in the bible? In fact the only Pillar besides lots wife found in the bible is a mentioned that the church is the foundation and pillar of truth…What church would that be? One thats only a few hundred years old? Protestantism is caused and sustained by Pride. Pride is the root of all evil.

Careful, or hijikata will report you for derailing the thread.

Ha! I’m just kidding! Everybody knows the rules aren’t for the Roman Catholics but just for us heathens.

 

[Brenda_V]

No, it had nothing to do with being wealthier down here but everything to do with the fact that we had nature’s bounty at our disposal. How we children complained when my mother served fish sticks or tuna salad instead of shrimp creole or gumbo.

I went to a Catholic grade school - seafood was so plentiful that we seldom had fish sticks or codfish cakes. In high school (in the French Quarter) the Brothers served lettuce and tomato poboys in addition to fried shrimp and fried oyster. Even the lettuce and tomato poboys with pickles was not a sacrifice.

I spent many a lunch hour in prayer in the Brother’s chapel as a member of the Confraternity of the Sacred Heart.

Sorry Brotherhrolf, I didn’t mean to imply that you all were rich. What I meant is as the people in the US got wealthier we were able to afford what once wasn’t available to us - take where I live, a totally land locked State, we can buy at a reasonable price fresh lobster, crabs etc. now, whereas in the past it was expensive and the “meatless” dishes were the simple ones of eggs, beans and cheese.

The only time I lived where the bounty was from the Sea was when I was a child and we lived in Turkey! Yes, there was always river and lake fish but that bounty was not the same as for those who live close to larger bodies of water.

I hear where you are coming from as far as “giving up meat” not being much of a sacrifice. For me a simple vegetable omelet is not a sacrifice. Or fried rice for that matter - no meat involved there.

Brenda V.

 

[war_eagle]

I don’t need scripture…all I need is history.

And therein lies the problem with Roman Catholicism: “I don’t need the word of God”.

Well, at least you were honest about it.

 

[war_eagle]

I reported war_eagle for derailing the thread and turning the discussion elsewhere. Also for calling the purgatory a fairytale were purgatory has not even been mentioned in this thread.

Good for you. And did you report the Roman Catholics here who’ve attacked me personally?

I doubt that very much.

 

[brotherhrolf]

(Edited)

Hey, podnah. Yours truly lives in small southern town without a Catholic church. We’re witches doncha know because we burn votive candles when the power goes out. I can and will hold a mirror to the sanctemonious actions of our protestant brethren.

Y’a know something war eagle? You and I could sit down at a catfish fry and could discuss this whole thing without acrimony.
I have heard Jimmy Swaggert spend more time railing against Catholics than preaching the gospel.

Your ancestors for 1500 years were Catholic. Christianty did not spring fully formed “from the brow of Athena” 500 years ago. And, yes, I know full well I am mixing metaphors.

Where is your historical evidence for your beliefs? Many of your Anglo-Saxon ancestors came to Louisiana and converted to Catholicism as did mine. History, my friend, not scripture.

 

[Markstorm]

And therein lies the problem with Roman Catholicism: “I don’t need the word of God”.

Well, at least you were honest about it.

Righto. People, lay off this guy and hear what he has to say. It rings of scintillating intelligence.

Sola scriptura is the bomb. Seriously, how could the Faith possibly survive if everyone didn’t read the Bible and interpret it for themselves?

Now, I know that some of you are going to ask, “What about the early Church when people didn’t have Bibles?” Well I think the answer is obvious. What they did was… uh… actually, answering that will be left as an exercise to the reader since it’s… so… obvious. Yeah.

Anyway the real question is: why should we believe anything the Catholic Church has to say? It’s not like they know any better than the rest of us. We’ll just place our trust in the Holy Bible which we know is true because the Catholic Church compiled it and told us so.

Tell it like it is, war eagle. Tell it like it is.

 

[war_eagle]

Righto. People, lay off this guy and hear what he has to say. It rings of scintillating intelligence.

Sola scriptura is the bomb. Seriously, how could the Faith possibly survive if everyone didn’t read the Bible and interpret it for themselves?

Now, I know that some of you are going to ask, “What about the early Church when people didn’t have Bibles?” Well I think the answer is obvious. What they did was… uh… actually, answering that will be left as an exercise to the reader since it’s… so… obvious. Yeah.

Anyway the real question is: why should we believe anything the Catholic Church has to say? It’s not like they know any better than the rest of us. We’ll just place our trust in the Holy Bible which we know is true because the Catholic Church compiled it and told us so.

Tell it like it is, war eagle. Tell it like it is.

I hate to tell you this, but hijikata has reported you and brotherrolf for posting off topic comments.

 

[Markstorm]

I hate to tell you this, but hijikata has reported you and brotherrolf for posting off topic comments.

Hey war eagle, I could care less, as long as I stay off your ignore list. That’s what we’re all afraid of, we’re just not saying it.

 

[war_eagle]

Sola scriptura is the bomb. Seriously, how could the Faith possibly survive if everyone didn’t read the Bible and interpret it for themselves?

Don’t even have a clue what sola scriptura teaches, do you?

Now, I know that some of you are going to ask, “What about the early Church when people didn’t have Bibles?” Well I think the answer is obvious. What they did was… uh… actually, answering that will be left as an exercise to the reader since it’s… so… obvious. Yeah.

Well, if you’d put down the Roman Catholic Kool Aide long enough, you’d know that they did have the OT scriptures, and th Epistles that would later be compiled to make the Bible.

Anyway the real question is: why should we believe anything the Catholic Church has to say? It’s not like they know any better than the rest of us.

This much, I have to agree with.

The Roman Catholic church is run by men (and, if history is anything to go by, not very good men) just like any other religious organization.

There’s nothing in scripture to suggest that they know anymore than anybody else.

We’ll just place our trust in the Holy Bible which we know is true because the Catholic Church compiled it and told us so.

You’d better put down that Kool Aide. You know what happened in Jonestown, don’t you?

Tell it like it is, war eagle. Tell it like it is.

 

[Markstorm]

I respectfully refuse to relinquish my Kool Aide.

Well, if you’d put down the Roman Catholic Kool Aide long enough, you’d know that they did have the OT scriptures, and th Epistles that would later be compiled to make the Bible./quote]

Exactly. Christians in the first and second century had the means to easily obtain copies of Scripture. This is known as the Gutenberg Time Machine theory that has been long suppressed. Because of this, they had no reason to trust the authority of the Church.

 

[Markstorm]

I respectfully refuse to relinquish my Kool Aide.

Well, if you’d put down the Roman Catholic Kool Aide long enough, you’d know that they did have the OT scriptures, and th Epistles that would later be compiled to make the Bible.

Exactly. Christians in the first and second century had the means to easily obtain copies of Scripture. This is known as the Gutenberg Time Machine theory that has been long suppressed. Because of this, they had no reason to trust the authority of the Church.

Epistles that would later be compiled to make the Bible.

Compiled to make the Bible? But who could possibly have the authority to do that?!

sips Kool Aide

You sure you don’t want a glass? Tastes like unfiltered Truth.

 

[wifeandmomoftwo]

well that was a lovely derailment…shall we get back the original topic since it looks like War-Eagle will not be back anytime soon: D

 

[brotherhrolf]

This is so tiring. Anyone with a modicum of historical knowledge would know that the vast majority of peasants and nobility in the Middle Ages could not read. Reading was pretty much left to the clergy. The rise of the middle class in the Late Middle Ages is responsible for reading being accepted and that in large response to the Black Plague.

Tedious, tedious, tedious… I am a calligrapher and an illuminator. Of course my manuscript is going to be chained down. ItI had nothing to do with keeping the Bible from the masses as much as it had to do with protecting the Bible from the masses and, as if, the masses could read.

Historical fact is ignored. We regurgitate protestant spiel and call it history. Raw history has more than enough blame for all of us- protestant or Catholic.

 

[kleary]

Romans 14:1-6 says that we’re not required to give up meat at all.

There it is. The Reformed missinterpretation of Holy Scripture. The abstinence referred to in that passage is abstaining from a meat product because it is unclean. It does not address abstaining from meat for acetic reasons.

The forerunners of the Reformation already had root in the Church at that time as we see- later on they declared all of “flesh” and “matter” to be evil so they abstained from meat due to that doctrinal reason- they even forbade marriage to all of their followers.

No wonder here in America, where Reformed Christianity has always had a firm root, that the previous pre Vatican II discipline of abstaining from meat on all Fridays of the year was changed to APPEASE the Protestants.

The current Church discipline of abstaining from meat on Fridays can be avoided if meat is substituted or an act of penance is done in its place. One of the “Protestant” complaints is “modified” to suit THEM…even though they are WRONG about it to begin with.

Just look at that banned poster’s posts. “Abstaining from meat” really struck a note with him, as do most of “Reformed” Christians whenever you mention “Abstaining from meat on Fridays”. They will throw at you the same Bible verse.

Ken

 

[Linda_Marie]

The directive from the USSCB says that abstaining from meat on Fridays is no longer a binding practice but is now voluntary. Friday is still a day of penance so some form of self-discipline or penance, or act of charity or mercy should be undertaken. The directive highly recommends abstaining from meat on Fridays and that there are spiritual benefits to be reaped from the practice.

Remember that the purpose of penance is to repair our relationship with God that has been damaged by our sins and to more fully mold ourselves to His Will. Bending our fleshly desires to our will in controlling our appetites strengthens us spiritually and helps us when the temptations of the flesh are more serious.

Abstaining from meat does not necessarily mean eating fish.

I had a former Catholic tell me that the reason Catholics ate fish on Fridays was because Peter was a fisherman and fishermen were in danger of unemployment so the Church said to eat fish to keep them in a job.

Definition of Friday Penance and history
secondexodus.com/html/catholicdefinitions/fridayabstinence.htm
Penitential Practices for Today’s Catholics (USCCB)
usccb.org/dpp/penitential.htm

Penitential Days

Ash Wednesday—This day marks the beginning of the Lenten season. The imposition of ashes is an ancient penitential practice symbolizing our dependence upon God’s mercy and forgiveness. Ash Wednesday is a day of fast and abstinence in the Church.

Good Friday—Christ suffered and died for our salvation on Friday. On the Friday that we call “Good,” the Church gathers to commemorate Jesus’ Passion and death. Good Friday is a day of fast and abstinence. The Good Friday fast is the Paschal fast—a fast of anticipation and longing for the Passover of the Lord, which should continue, when possible, through Holy Saturday.

Fridays During Lent—In the United States, the tradition of abstaining from meat on each Friday during Lent is maintained.

Fridays Throughout the Year—In memory of Christ’s suffering and death, the Church prescribes making each Friday throughout the year a penitential day. All of us are urged to prepare appropriately for that weekly Easter that comes with each Sunday.

The next section discusses the forms of penance available.