Are We Seeing the Rise of a Fundamentalist Dictatorship?

[Son_of_Niall]

I wish in no way to disparage fundamentalists/evangelicals. I realize they are a diverse group. However….
In the last few months we have seen the rise of a certain Presidential candidate who is extremely popular among the fundamentalist/evangelical right. The reasons are confusing as this person is as far from evangelical values as one can imagine, at least when I was evangelical.
I do not wish to discuss the Presidential candidate here, as it is against forum rules and there are already countless threads about him.
My purpose is to understand WHY conservative fundamentalists/evangelicals are so willing to place their electoral bets on a person who seems to feed off of radicalism and extremism.
Is there something within the fundamentalist/evangelical mindset that is attracted to the rhetoric we have seen? If so, what in your opinion, would that be?
Again, we cannot discuss the candidate here, and I do not wish to bash Protestant Christians.
But I am genuinely curious.

 

[Lenten_ashes]

Wondering the same thing.

I’d like to think that when I was protestant I had better discernment than to vote for the unnamed candidate.

You shall know them by their fruits…

If someone says they are Christian, yet not sure if they have ever asked God for forgiveness, I would seriously have to question that person’s faith, at least privately as I think it’s wrong to do publicly.

 

[JustaServant]

2 Corinthians 11:13For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. 14No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. 15Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds.

People forget so easily.

 

[Kliska]

If you are talking Trump, then the only insight I can offer (from one that can’t stand the thought of his nomination) is that there are large chunks of people, “evangelical” I guess, and non-evangelicals, that are angry. They are mad and want change at any price.

There is actually a “split” in evangelicals at the moment, between the ones following Trump and the ones who are not, and who are consequently split up between 3 other candidates. The result is that it “looks” like a majority of evangelicals are supporting Trump, but I’ve yet to be convinced that is actually true… but to be honest I don’t track evangelical polls.

 

[JustaServant]

If you are talking Trump, then the only insight I can offer (from one that can’t stand the thought of his nomination) is that there are large chunks of people, “evangelical” I guess, and non-evangelicals, that are angry. They are mad and want change at any price.

There is actually a “split” in evangelicals at the moment, between the ones following Trump and the ones who are not, and who are consequently split up between 3 other candidates. The result is that it “looks” like a majority of evangelicals are supporting Trump, but I’ve yet to be convinced that is actually true… but to be honest I don’t track evangelical polls.

If Facebook is any measurement, the friends I have from fundamentalist/evangelical backgrounds are silent for the most part. One guy went off the deep end and I had to remove him from my page. For other reasons other than Trump. Most of the others just want to post pictures of their cats or kids.
However, if one does a search of social media you will find the loudest voices out there for Trump are coming from the evangelical/ fundamentalist section of society. A loud voice can give the impression of majority.
You bring up a good point about anger. Anger can cloud judgment. And if your religion is based on anger, and what you are against, then some better take a good look at their religion.

 

[Kliska]

If Facebook is any measurement, the friends I have from fundamentalist/evangelical backgrounds are silent for the most part. One guy went off the deep end and I had to remove him from my page. For other reasons other than Trump. Most of the others just want to post pictures of their cats or kids.
However, if one does a search of social media you will find the loudest voices out there for Trump are coming from the evangelical/ fundamentalist section of society. A loud voice can give the impression of majority.
You bring up a good point about anger. Anger can cloud judgment. And if your religion is based on anger, and what you are against, then some better take a good look at their religion.

Gratefully none of the people I’m friends with on social media seem to be going nuclear over Trump. I have seen the reports elsewhere though.

I just realized I missed the main question; the title of the thread; are we seeing the rise of fundamentalist dictatorship? I have to say no, even if he gets the presidency, because he’s not a fundamentalist. A dictatorship? Maybe… but not a fundamentalist one. Trump is for himself, not for evangelicals or fundamentalists. He’ll take their support, but has even made it clear there is no one he answers to.

 

[JustaServant]

Gratefully none of the people I’m friends with on social media seem to be going nuclear over Trump. I have seen the reports elsewhere though.

I just realized I missed the main question; the title of the thread; are we seeing the rise of fundamentalist dictatorship? I have to say no, even if he gets the presidency, because he’s not a fundamentalist. A dictatorship? Maybe… but not a fundamentalist one. Trump is for himself, not for evangelicals or fundamentalists. He’ll take their support, but has even made it clear there is no one he answers to.

I gotta go, but let me ask this, to expand of the subject.
Are we using the historical definition of ‘fundamentalist?’ Or the modern version?
I would say if we are using the modern version, Trump could be described as a fundamentalist. “Dictator” seems to be what he is running for.
Good subject.
Be back later today.

 

[Lenten_ashes]

Gratefully none of the people I’m friends with on social media seem to be going nuclear over Trump. I have seen the reports elsewhere though.

I just realized I missed the main question; the title of the thread; are we seeing the rise of fundamentalist dictatorship? I have to say no, even if he gets the presidency, because he’s not a fundamentalist. A dictatorship? Maybe… but not a fundamentalist one. Trump is for himself, not for evangelicals or fundamentalists. He’ll take their support, but has even made it clear there is no one he answers to.

I am not sure about his motives. Does he really want to “Make America great again”? Or is he just doing this to stroke his own ego?

Debatable.

 

[Kliska]

I gotta go, but let me ask this, to expand of the subject.
Are we using the historical definition of ‘fundamentalist?’ Or the modern version?
I would say if we are using the modern version, Trump could be described as a fundamentalist. “Dictator” seems to be what he is running for.
Good subject.
Be back later today.

I don’t know… I guess it is up to the OP to define “fundamentalist” in this concept. I can pretty much guarantee he’s not a “fundamentalist” in the older, religious application as he has admitted as much.

I am not sure about his motives. Does he really want to “Make America great again”? Or is he just doing this to stroke his own ego?

Debatable.

It is really hard to get into someone’s heart and head and truly know motives… but this is truly just my opinion (which is worth-less than 2 cents), but I think as long as the two overlap, he’d be fine with making America great again because that would uphold the view of himself that he has. Also, I do think it is fair to say that most (perhaps not 100% of) politicians have an ego and ego is not always an awful thing in politics, but can be dangerous if it is out of control or not tamed by “proper” or “good” ideology/theology (again IMO).

 

[Crusaderbear]

I don’t think it so much pro for T as it is anti political machines that do nothing but keep incumbents in office. Hopefully the wake up call will straighten out the politicos and we can get American back.

 

[Aslan10]

As someone who is from the state that he just swept, I have no answer for you. I personally voted for Rubio, as I think he is reasonable, despite his robotic nature at times.

If I had to take a stab at it, many are voting for him out of fear–fear that Trump is the only person who can beat out Hillary and turn the tide of American politics. They see the increasing social and economic liberalism and absolutely cringe in fear.

To them, Trump puts off a “no prisoner” attitude and it makes them feel safer. They blame the establishment, because in their eyes, they have done nothing to change the culture. I do not agree with this sentiment, and I am not positive that I am correct in my judgement of the current situation.

 

[petra22]

As someone who is from the state that he just swept, I have no answer for you. I personally voted for Rubio, as I think he is reasonable, despite his robotic nature at times.

If I had to take a stab at it, many are voting for him out of fear–fear that Trump is the only person who can beat out Hillary and turn the tide of American politics. They see the increasing social and economic liberalism and absolutely cringe in fear.

To them, Trump puts off a “no prisoner” attitude and it makes them feel safer. They blame the establishment, because in their eyes, they have done nothing to change the culture. I do not agree with this sentiment, and I am not positive that I am correct in my judgement of the current situation.

The elected conservatives have not gotten any of our conservative policies back and it seems they want to play games in the government to protect the PARTY! The party is not getting conservatives what they want which is truth and reason, America land of the free and home of the brave, etc… We know what liberals want and get, we conservatives can’t get what we want with the PARTY… it’s a vicious circle…

 

[Aslan10]

The elected conservatives have not gotten any of our conservative policies back and it seems they want to play games in the government to protect the PARTY! The party is not getting conservatives what they want which is truth and reason, America land of the free and home of the brave, etc… We know what liberals want and get, we conservatives can’t get what we want with the PARTY… it’s a vicious circle…

Of course they aren’t going to get conservative policies back when everything is vetoed. It is my opinion that the party is partly responsible, but that the people are just as accountable. Our government isn’t the only thing becoming more liberal, it’s our culture, and that will be reflected in our government policies.

 

[Son_of_Niall]

I don’t know… I guess it is up to the OP to define “fundamentalist” in this concept. I can pretty much guarantee he’s not a “fundamentalist” in the older, religious application as he has admitted as much.

I would say the modern definition of fundamentalism.
Just off the top of my head, Evangelical leaders like Franklin Graham, Jerry Falwell Jr., Robert Jeffers, televangelists Mike Murdock, Kenneth Copeland all endorse Trump.
So, this is no figment of the imagination.

 

[Tablefor9]

…The short answer is that bad policies caused economic, military and political crises – chow time for tyrants…circumstances changed for the worse, and when people become angry enough or desperate enough, sometimes they’ll support crazies who would never attract a crowd in normal circumstances.

Retrieved from this article by Jim Powell in Forbes and well worth the read as a cautionary tale.

I think we’ve been living a prelude to dictatorship for the last decade. Economically, we are a mess. We aren’t even telling the truth about our unemployment rates because too many having given up looking for work. No one can say we aren’t in a continuing, demoralizing military fiasco. As for the political crisis, it’ll be the Lord’s own goodness if it’s averted in time. Note that there is documented increase in anti-religious sentiment in the US over this time, as well (not just talking about the rise of the “Nones”). Our country may have even found the angry, charismatic leader of choice. Time will tell and may our children forgive us.

 

[Kliska]

I would say the modern definition of fundamentalism.
Just off the top of my head, Evangelical leaders like Franklin Graham, Jerry Falwell Jr., Robert Jeffers, televangelists Mike Murdock, Kenneth Copeland all endorse Trump.
So, this is no figment of the imagination.

I don’t think anyone in the thread thinks this is some type of figment of the imagination, but the question about whether Trump would be a “Fundamentalist” dictator kind of assumes Trump himself is fundamentalist, which I don’t think many would agree on. I know Franklin Graham won’t endorse anyone specifically, but I know Jerry Falwell Jr did. But, my opinion is that even if all “evangelical leaders” endorsed Trump, that doesn’t make him a fundamentalist, or even necessarily a Christian.

 

[HCTC]

The elected conservatives have not gotten any of our conservative policies back and it seems they want to play games in the government to protect the PARTY! The party is not getting conservatives what they want which is truth and reason, America land of the free and home of the brave, etc… We know what liberals want and get, we conservatives can’t get what we want with the PARTY… it’s a vicious circle…

Could you please be more specific? What is it specifically that “liberals want and get…?”

 

[JustaServant]

Fundamentalism is primarily an AMERICAN phenomenon. It never caught on overseas. So fundamentalism and Americanism are very much united.
Fundamentalism, in today’s meaning, is a strict observance to a particular orthodoxy. They are resistant to change and are suspicious of progress. They are nostalgic for the ‘good old days’ before the world went to Hell in a hand basket.
What makes it peculiar to the US is our belief we are ‘exceptional’. Things have to be made ‘right’ to ‘make America great again’.
In that sense, Trump is stroking fundamentalist philosophy. It’s certain he himself is no fundamentalist. But he is tapping into the anger and fear current in our culture. An anger and fear that is a direct backlash of the policies our government and culture have created. That is why he is getting the endorsement of evangelical leaders.
But perhaps what these evangelicals desire of Trump, will not be what they expect.

 

[GEddie]

Let’s see who is elected before we worry about dictatorship or tyranny.

Dictatorship and tyranny are the two bugaboos of this country, but most have no idea what either would entail.

The hyper-religious crowd has never had sufficient “cowbell” to get its man elected, never mind implement a restrictive legal program. That went away with the end of prohibition.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Son_of_Niall]

VERY good article that makes my point even more clear:

A strange but accurate predictor of whether someone supports Donald Trump

One of the reasons that Donald Trump has flummoxed pollsters and political analysts is that his supporters seem to have nothing in common. He appeals to evangelical and secular voters, conservative and moderate Republicans, independents and even some Democrats. Many of his supporters are white and don’t have a college degree, but he also does well with some highly educated voters, too.

When it comes to politics, authoritarians tend to prefer clarity and unity to ambiguity and difference. They’re amenable to restricting the rights of foreigners, members of a political party in the minority and anyone whose culture or lifestyle deviates from their own community’s.

“For authoritarians, things are black and white,” MacWilliams said. “Authoritarians obey.”

While some scholars have argued that authoritarianism is associated with conservatism, there are certainly authoritarians in both parties. And MacWilliams found that the likelihood that participants in his poll supported Trump had little to do with how conservative they were — no surprise, as Trump’s positions on many issues are relatively moderate.

Authoritarianism isn’t always a negative trait, noted Vanderbilt’s Hetherington. Authoritarians can be more direct and decisive when the situation calls for it. “There’s this notion that all the nuanced navel gazing that liberals do is superior,” he said. “Not always.”

Nonetheless, research on authoritarianism is extremely sensitive, since it began after World War II, when psychologists and social scientists wanted to understand how so many people could support repressive, homicidal dictatorships in Europe and elsewhere.

“I’m not saying they’re fascists,” MacWilliams said of Trump’s supporters, “but authoritarians obey.”

washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/02/01/how-your-parenting-style-predicts-whether-you-support-donald-trump/?tid=hybrid_experimentrandom_3_na

Fundamentalists have always been attracted to ‘authoritarians’.