Are We Seeing the Rise of a Fundamentalist Dictatorship?

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I considered Obama as the ultimate protest candidate by the left, I feel the same way about Trump as the far right protest candidate.

Anyone that lives to be a certain age has seen the pendulum go from left to right and back several times, but through the last few cycles, it seems the pendulum wants to burst through the sides of the clock altogether. Will these new radical candidates seem tame by future standards?

I am here to tell you that thirty years ago, the type of stuff that spews from candidates mouths now, would be unthinkable then. Back then, a President would never make a show of willfully trampling all over senate and house rules. Now it seems like politicians can say or do anything.😦
 
Personally, I don’t see a lot of “fundamentalism” in Trump–I see hints of “nationalism.” I think if it were “fundamentalism,” we’d see Trump standing against SSM (homosexuals in general too), Abortion, Uber Liberal economics, and ALL faiths that aren’t Christian. Instead, we’re seeing someone harkening back to a bygone era, and trying to recreate it by rounding up and deporting immigrants (because it’s their fault), not allowing refugees (they’re dangerous), and revamping the political system. All of this coming from an overly charismatic leader, feeding off the anger of his constituents.

I don’t think Trump is as dangerous as the way I’ve described him, but I don’t think he is as benign as he voters seem to think.
 
Historic American fundamentalism certainly is attracted to authoritarian leadership. Bob Jones, Billy Sunday, Jack Hyles, and scores of others whose names most here would not recognize as they are from a bygone era.
But that desire for authoritarianism hasn’t abated. Just as Israel wanted a king, and got Saul. American fundamentalists and evangelicals are desiring a ‘national preacher’ who will ‘say it like it is’ and ‘take charge’. But are they walking themselves into their own prison?
Sometimes the worst thing you can receive, is exactly what you ask for.
 
Most of the evangelicals I am aware of do not appear to be Pro-Trump. I think it improper to characterize this as a specifically evangelical “fundamentalist” problem, particularly when the vote is so split. In addition, many of the more respected evangelical leaders (hint: the ones who aren’t tv-evangelists), do NOT support Trump (favoring Cruz and Rubio). This is also in line with the opinions of most evangelical pastors – who, according to an article I read recently, only support Trump at a rate of 5% (again, most support other candidates).

So I think your characterization is fundamentally flawed. Trump is not taking large numbers of this group *because *they are evangelicals, but arguably in spite of it.
 
I think the reason is because conservatives are sick of nothing getting done in Washington.

I don’t think it has anything to do with evangelicals, other than evangelicals are typically very conservative.

Conservatives are sick and tired of lawyers running this nation, who are so out of touch with reality these days.

Back in the days of President John Adams, lawyers were classically trained in philosophy, theology, etc; plus a number of them were also farmers, and/or merchants too. The lawyer was the most well rounded person and very suited for the ruling class.

But today, things are different. Lawyers are no longer classically trained, they are only trained in how to bend laws and how to argue. They also are not well rounded, most only having degrees in Political Science or History. Furthermore, most running for office have never worked in the public sector, other than working for a law firm.

They are so out of touch with the working man, and so ingrained with arguing law that they are not getting anything done.

Trump is a successful business man. Whether you like him or not, you can’t say he’s not an overall successful man. He has even found ways to profit from his failures. Successful business people get things done. It may or may not be ethical, or you may or may not like what they do; but they get things done. Which is something we can’t say about Washington.

As someone who works for a major law firm, I know first hand that corporate America is growing very impatient with the legal industry because it’s “good ole boy network” and it’s “we are attorneys and know what’s best for you better than you do” attitude.

This same view is trickling into the rest of the people working in business and commerce. Academics on the other hand and other professionals don’t often see this.

So I really think this is the start of a major upheaval in American politics as we will eventually see more people with MBAs in politics and less JDs over time.

God Bless
 
There are a disturbingly large number of historical parallels, however, I believe the differences are substantial enough for the country to survive.
 
From the statistics I just looked up it appears up to 42% of evangelicals are backing Trump, up to, meaning that’s the highest percentage polled, most seem to put him in the 30 something percent range. One site made the claim it was mainly prosperity preaching and believing evangelicals… perhaps that gives a clue?
 
I’m a conservative evangelical who will only vote for Trump if he is the last Republican standing. I think people tend to like a strong macho leader who talks tough, and this candidate definitely comes across that way but I personally believe he won’t be able to do most of things he says he is going to do.

I personally think he is just a lot of bluster and not very dignified, but that is just me. I think the term ‘Fundamentalist Dictatorship’ is a little alarmist by the OP. As someone already mentioned, Trump got like 32% of the evangelical vote in South Carolina. That means 68% of evangelicals didn’t vote for the guy.

Also, please keep in mind that evangelicals voted for Romney over Obama by something like 73% to 27% in the last election and Obama still won, based in large part to Catholics and others voting slightly in favor of Obama, according to exit polls.

This year, I was originally planning to vote for Scott Walker, then he got out of the race. I then planned to vote for Jeb Bush, then he just got out of the race. Out of the remaining candidates, I like Kasich the most, and he is near the bottom. It seems like everyone I like drops out or does poorly.

You know, maybe it will help if I start planning to vote for Trump. :idea:
 
The answer to the original question is no. What we are seeing is the continuation of the Dictatorship of Relativism. Based on what I’ve been reading, that dictatorship is afraid of implosion. But it has backers in the media and organized groups. Otherwise, Christians are beginning to see the light and are rejecting a lot of nonsense on the grounds that it is nonsense.

Ed
 
I personally know of no Evangelicals who are Trump supporters. They are all Cruz, Carson, and Rubio supporters. I even know one Kasich supporter. The Evangelicals I know are weekly churchgoers.

Franklin Graham, a previous post to the contrary, is not supporting Trump. Jerry Fallwell’s son and televangelists are generally not claimed by any churchgoing Evangelical I have ever met as Evangelicals, but are considered to be either snake oil salesmen or Fundamentalist wackos so I can’t really speak to their support of Trump.

From what I have read, the majority of those voting for Trump in S. Carolina were self identified as Evangelicals, but the majority of those also were NOT regular churchgoers so I question the accuracy of their self identification.

Anyway, no I don’t think we’re seeing the rise of a Fundamentalist dictatorship. Does Trump even claim to be an Evangelical? I thought he was Presbyterian. Some of those church’s are Evangelical and some not. I don’t think his is.
 
In times of great change–political, social, economic–a certain segment of the population will turn to conservatism (to “conserve” the old status quo) because they are afraid. In this country these people are also religious fundamentalists. There’s an interesting parallel with Muslims; as their society enters the modern age, many of them turned to the more conservative, fundamentalist sects.

One trait that almost all of this man’s supporters share is a lack of higher education. That is his base. They are those who are frightened by the complexities of modern life; they see their livelihoods being usurped by foreigners. They like his simplistic answers to complicated problems: Build a wall, make Mexico pay for it. Boom, done. Someone is rude, punch him in the nose. Boom, done. There are terrorists who want to harm Americans, give everyone a gun. Boom, really done. They don’t want to hear that more nuanced solutions may be necessary.

Many people are religious fundamentalists for the same reason. They don’t like the direction that modern life is taking so they turn to religion, not from a love of God and a desire to serve him but because they feel safe with its teachings. So Evangelicals can support a candidate whose bankruptcies and fraudulent “university” cheated many people just like them out of huge amounts of money. A candidate whose many affairs and multiple marriages are diametrically opposed to the beliefs they profess. A candidate whose wife has posed for pictures so obscene that they would have picketed the White House had Michelle Obama ever posed for one a tenth as revealing.

They are not supporting this candidate because he shares their values. They are not supporting him because he will make America great again. They’re supporting him because they are afraid and they think he will keep them safe.
 
Book_Worm said:
In times of great change–political, social, economic–a certain segment of the population will turn to conservatism (to “conserve” the old status quo) because they are afraid. In this country these people are also religious fundamentalists. There’s an interesting parallel with Muslims; as their society enters the modern age, many of them turned to the more conservative, fundamentalist sects.

One trait that almost all of this man’s supporters share is a lack of higher education. That is his base. They are those who are frightened by the complexities of modern life; they see their livelihoods being usurped by foreigners. They like his simplistic answers to complicated problems: Build a wall, make Mexico pay for it. Boom, done. Someone is rude, punch him in the nose. Boom, done. There are terrorists who want to harm Americans, give everyone a gun. Boom, really done. They don’t want to hear that more nuanced solutions may be necessary.

Many people are religious fundamentalists for the same reason. They don’t like the direction that modern life is taking so they turn to religion, not from a love of God and a desire to serve him but because they feel safe with its teachings. So Evangelicals can support a candidate whose bankruptcies and fraudulent “university” cheated many people just like them out of huge amounts of money. A candidate whose many affairs and multiple marriages are diametrically opposed to the beliefs they profess. A candidate whose wife has posed for pictures so obscene that they would have picketed the White House had Michelle Obama ever posed for one a tenth as revealing.

They are not supporting this candidate because he shares their values. They are not supporting him because he will make America great again. They’re supporting him because they are afraid and they think he will keep them safe.
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That is an assumption and includes an insult. No one gets smarter when moving from the farm to the big city. Any rational person can tell right from wrong, but not in a media saturated country that tells everyone: right and wrong is whatever you decide it is. That’s irrational. Societies can’t function like that.

Pope Benedict:

“If we cannot have common values, common truths, sufficient communication on the essentials of human life–how to live how to respond to the great challenges of human life–then true society becomes impossible.”

Source: Practical Catholic

Ed
 
Book_Worm said:
One trait that almost all of this man’s supporters share is a lack of higher education. .
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Actually it’s a fallacy that people who are uneducated turn to authoritarianism or a cult (whether religious or political).
Prior to Hitler, Germany was considered the center of the intellectual world.
 
edwest2 said:
That is an assumption and includes an insult. No one gets smarter when moving from the farm to the big city. Any rational person can tell right from wrong, but not in a media saturated country that tells everyone: right and wrong is whatever you decide it is. That’s irrational. Societies can’t function like that.

Pope Benedict:

“If we cannot have common values, common truths, sufficient communication on the essentials of human life–how to live how to respond to the great challenges of human life–then true society becomes impossible.”

Source: Practical Catholic

Ed
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Then please explain why these people support a candidate whose whole life has been a refutation of all that they believe in? They believe in monogamy; he’s an adulterer. They hold greed to be a sin; it’s his prime motivator. They are called to Christian charity; he is rude, nasty and insulting to anyone who doesn’t agree with him. They decry vulgar speech; he had the pottiest of potty mouths. They are commanded to be honest in their business dealings; he cheats those least able to defend themselves.

These are not people who hold deep religious convictions; they are people who turn to religion for other reasons.
 
Book_Worm said:
Then please explain why these people support a candidate whose whole life has been a refutation of all that they believe in? They believe in monogamy; he’s an adulterer. They hold greed to be a sin; it’s his prime motivator. They are called to Christian charity; he is rude, nasty and insulting to anyone who doesn’t agree with him. They decry vulgar speech; he had the pottiest of potty mouths. They are commanded to be honest in their business dealings; he cheats those least able to defend themselves.

These are not people who hold deep religious convictions; they are people who turn to religion for other reasons.
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The same could be asked of Catholic supporters of Trump. This past weekend we were witness to many Catholics defending Trump over Pope Francis.
 
Measuring Donald Trump’s Supporters for Intolerance
Exit poll data from the South Carolina primary revealed that nearly half the Republicans who turned out on Saturday wanted undocumented immigrants to be deported immediately. Donald Trump won 44 percent of those voters.
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Voters were asked if they favored temporarily barring Muslims who are not citizens from entering the United States, something Mr. Trump advocates, and 41 percent said they did. Not surprisingly, he won 74 percent of that group.
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Mr. Trump, who handily won that South Carolina primary and all its delegates, is attracting Republican voters across demographic groups — conservatives, moderates, evangelicals and those who are not born-again Christians. In a sense, he is uniting parts of the party that have been on opposite sides of recent nomination battles.

A new set of public opinion survey results asking atypical but timely questions has shed some light on the Trump coalition. The results suggest how Mr. Trump has upended the contemporary divide in the party and built a significant part of his coalition of voters on people who are responsive to religious, social and racial intolerance.
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nytimes.com/2016/02/25/upshot/measuring-donald-trumps-supporters-for-intolerance.html?_r=0
 
Son_of_Niall said:
I wish in no way to disparage fundamentalists/evangelicals. I realize they are a diverse group. However….
In the last few months we have seen the rise of a certain Presidential candidate who is extremely popular among the fundamentalist/evangelical right. The reasons are confusing as this person is as far from evangelical values as one can imagine, at least when I was evangelical.
I do not wish to discuss the Presidential candidate here, as it is against forum rules and there are already countless threads about him.
My purpose is to understand WHY conservative fundamentalists/evangelicals are so willing to place their electoral bets on a person who seems to feed off of radicalism and extremism.
Is there something within the fundamentalist/evangelical mindset that is attracted to the rhetoric we have seen? If so, what in your opinion, would that be?
Again, we cannot discuss the candidate here, and I do not wish to bash Protestant Christians.
But I am genuinely curious.
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I wonder the same thing…are we electing a politician who has certain christian convictions to which we can relate…or are we electing some sort of fundamentalist Christian Ayatollah to run the country…it seems like some Republican candidates are trying to outdo each other proclaiming who is the more worthy Christian…Trump and Cruz seem to be the main culprits always pushing their religious beliefs…personally I would have supported Bush…he’s a Catholic who has Catholic values but doesn’t shout it from the rooftops…plus I thought he did a good job as Gov. here in Florida…so I guess my next choice will be Rubio.
 
Talk and more talk. Sadly, I think there’s too much talk. Fear-mongering as well. Get the facts from good, checkable sources. Thinking is good. Speculating without good data, not good.

Ed
 
We can look at Catholic statistics as well in this area, “30 percent of all Catholics who are registered to vote said they felt that Trump would be a good or great president…” as reported on fivethirtyeight website. Right now 30 percent is inline with the rest of the country. It is a large diverse group that is backing Trump, so if he becomes a dictator-type leader who knows what stripe he would be…

Also the theory from fivethirtyeight; “White evangelical Protestants are his biggest supporters, over half of whom (52 percent) think he’d be good or great. However, evangelical protestants lean more to the Republican Party than Catholics, generally, so their enthusiasm for Trump may be primarily a reflection of their party affiliation, not their faith.”
 
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