Are We Super-Tough on Lawbreakers? Should We Always Be?

[RWMorris]

Uh, actually Monte,
Sheriff Arpaio has people living in subhuman conditions and eating food not fit
for human consumption. His inmates are raped, beaten, stabbed, etc.
There have been numerous murders and suicides in his jails.
Nonviolent people are thrown together with racist gang leaders and
other brutal people.
And very important to note, the vast majority of these people are NOT convicts. They are awaiting trial. They have not been convicted of anything and — supposedly — are presumed innocent.
Sheriff Arapaio seems worse than the people in his custody.
He gets pleasure out of what he is doing, and brags about it.
He himself is under investigation.

I don’t know if I agree with your contention concerning conditions in Sheriff Arpaio’s jails, but you are exactly right on your point, “the vast majority of these people are NOT convicts. They are awaiting trial. They have not been convicted of anything and — supposedly — are presumed innocent.” Jailing innocent people under any conditions is immoral.

 

[Jaypeeto4]

I don’t know if I agree with your contention concerning conditions in Sheriff Arpaio’s jails,

The number of lawsuits pending against that man and his jails, is staggering.
People who have been beaten, raped, maimed and killed in his jails, while awaiting trial.
Denied medical care and died. You name it.
There are places you can go on the internet and see videos filmed inhis jails, of Aryan Brotherhood gang members beating and stomping other jailed people to death for chatting with a member of “another” race.

 

[valentino]

No we aren’t super tough on lawbreakers just certain ones.Its pretty difficult to get a conviction especially if you get an expensive lawyer(then its almost impossible).Our system picks and chooses.Laws are pretty arbritary in fact.Many people get convicted in one jurisdiction and in another few get convicted even of the same crime.There is not a law one cannot break and not go free with the right lawyer(money).

 

[Jaypeeto4]

Hi Valentino. In general, you make a valid observation. Often the super-wealthy
can “get off,” even for violent brutal acts, because they can afford to hire the most expensive defense team and private investigators, etc.
Also, they can always pay their bail and not sit in jail for months or years awaiting trial.
A poor person often can’t afford bail, even.

But sometimes the very wealthy, who have destroyed many lives deliberately,
DO get some punishment. Bernard Madoff, the ponzi-schemer who took billions
from individuals who thought he was looking out for them, is in custody.
Personally, I think prisons should only be for violent offenders such as murders.
Men like Madoff should be living in halfway houses under supervision, and should be required to spend their days aiding the government in learning the ins and outs of how
men like him operate so other helpless private investors don’t get robbed deliberately of their life savings. I just don’t see how someone like Madoff, who took BILLIONS of dollars from trusting people, can ever even begin, in this life, to make it up to them.
Some would say his bad karma will follow him. If he were Catholic, he might be facing a long Purgatory.
The Bible doesn’t make provisions for prisons. The Old Testament prescribed that thieves repay their victims 4 times over (even Zaccheus told Jesus that he was willing to do this).
Murderers, etc., were stoned to death. And that was with the approval of God, even though it was NOT universally applied.

 

[valentino]

Hi Valentino. In general, you make a valid observation. Often the super-wealthy
can “get off,” even for violent brutal acts, because they can afford to hire the most expensive defense team and private investigators, etc.
Also, they can always pay their bail and not sit in jail for months or years awaiting trial.
A poor person often can’t afford bail, even.

But sometimes the very wealthy, who have destroyed many lives deliberately,
DO get some punishment. Bernard Madoff, the ponzi-schemer who took billions
from individuals who thought he was looking out for them, is in custody.
Personally, I think prisons should only be for violent offenders such as murders.
Men like Madoff should be living in halfway houses under supervision, and should be required to spend their days aiding the government in learning the ins and outs of how
men like him operate so other helpless private investors don’t get robbed deliberately of their life savings. I just don’t see how someone like Madoff, who took BILLIONS of dollars from trusting people, can ever even begin, in this life, to make it up to them.
Some would say his bad karma will follow him. If he were Catholic, he might be facing a long Purgatory.
The Bible doesn’t make provisions for prisons. The Old Testament prescribed that thieves repay their victims 4 times over (even Zaccheus told Jesus that he was willing to do this).
Murderers, etc., were stoned to death. And that was with the approval of God, even though it was NOT universally applied.

 

[valentino]

valentino:
your right,he can’t make it up.The best that can happen is to try and recover some of it.i believe Madoff is truelly feeling the extent of his transgressions.his son committed suicide and his family have been under constant attack.His reputation as one of the worse crooks to have ever lived must also hurt very much and he has nothing but time to think about it.About in his heart he deeply regrets the things he has done.

 

[Jaypeeto4]

I hope he regrets it, for his soul’s sake.
He didn’t screw up “accidentally.” He didn’t just make years of unintentional mistakes.
He ran a ponzi scheme.

But you know what else seem, to me, like Ponzi-schemes?
Have you ever heard of HerbaLife?
You become a distributor of HerbaLife and sell the products.
You then recruit other interest people to become distributors,
and you benefit financially from having recruited them. You, for
recruiting all the new people, rise to a higher level, where you don’t have
to work nearly as hard and make better money. The distributors you have
recruited now do the grunt work. In time, THEY recruit new distributors,
and they and you keep rising.
The way I see it, at least in possibility, eventually there won’t be enough
customers for all these low level recruit distributors to sell product to.
Eventually, they won’t be able to really make any money.
How is that so very, very different from Madoff’s Ponzi-schemes, at least
in practice??

 

[Jaypeeto4]

By the way, I am not saying
that HerbaLife is a criminal enterprise. That is not my point at all.
I am merely pointing out the risks inherent to people who come along
at a much later date and invest their time and money into it.