Are we wasting our time here?

[thomfra]

I read an article written by an expert in sociology and media the other day. He had some very interesting comments about how we choose our sources of information. To give you the abridged version he basically said **“people will seek out sources of information which confirm their view of the world”. **

This is of course true for both sides of the political/ideological spectrum. This leads me to whether we are actually learning anything here. I mean, our minds are essentially made up aren’t they?

Everybody thinks that they are the exception. “Well I have seen/lived/read both sides of that particular issue, and can say blah blah…”

What do people think of this? Are you the exception? Can you really ever think critically when you already have a set “view of the world”?

 

[Fran65]

I’m learning all of the time and am constantly questioning my world view. I have had a long and diverse spiritual journey and was very liberal, but over time I have changed as I’ve become more informed. I enjoy exploring and educating myself about my Catholic Faith. I also like hearing other’s views and reasoning. I’m a teacher - can you tell??

I think people differ in their motives for using this site. Some want to learn and ask questions and discuss. Some want to restate their point of view and have it confirmed. That’s fine if they’ve gone through a process of formation and discernment, but its easy to kid ourselves that that is the case.

Pax

Karen

 

[foggydawn]

…people will seek out sources of information which confirm their view of the world”.

I think people avoid sources of information which conflict with their view of the world.

Can you really ever think critically when you already have a set “view of the world”?

I believe that thinking critically is not an either/or situation. It is possible to think critically to a partial degree, not fully challenging one’s personal views, while being open to new ideas or evidence.

 

[Newbie2]

It would seem that “sources of information” are assumed to be homogenous i.e. the “liberal media”, “Fox News”, etc. in that the information from one particular source.

That’s what’s interesting about forums…although I see the CAF as leaning a bit “right”, or conservative, there are many different sources thrown out there in the course of discussion.

 

[strngrnrth]

I spend more time on writings I agree with of course, because it’s like socializing with friends, and I’m fully aware of it. I also seek out the opposing side just to se what they’re up to these days, in curiosity and the desire to know my opponent in order to oppose them better.
I was actually doing just that many of the times my mind changed. There is some possibility of conversion every time a person checks out the enemy, but since the point is truth, that’s all part of the quest.
I do however have several firm commitments to certain points of view now, and in almost all those cases I was once on the other side and argued fiercely there for a long time.

 

[RachelsAlumni]

People can and do change their minds all the time. I know I have.

I think a person who knows and feels secure in themselves doesn’t have a problem listening to opposing points of view and is willing to really listen and consider other points of view as long as they are intelligent and well reasoned.

A good example would be Stephen Colbert and Jon Stewart. Two opposing views, but within the same media. They are both intelligent & funny and present their views in an intelligent way that appeals to people on either spectrum.

Contrast that with Hannity vs. Franken. IMO they are both equally nauseating.

I frequently find myself disagreeing with both the liberal and the conservative radio stations. Neither of them “confirm my world view”. About the only media that I could say confirms my world view is EWTN.

 

[Biggie]

Personally to me, the value of this kind of activity is in debating opposing points of view. If your knowledge, logic, vocabulary or language skills run out, you discover very quickly and know you have work to do. You are forced to flesh out the skeletons of your understanding. That offers the opportunity for both witness and learning, if you will.

I think very few debates end in the concession of one side or the other, but that is not the value of debate. Over time, perhaps, on some topics, logic will out.

From that point of view CAF has strengths and weaknesses. One can discuss religion, specifically Catholic doctrine, freely without inhibition since the site is generally dedicated to that. On the other hand, most correspondents share similar views so it is sometimes difficult to find opinions to the contrary on important issues.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I’m with Biggie on this one.

I might add only that, in my life, I have changed from a doctrinnaire liberal to a more conservative, but less doctrinnaire pont of view.

Abortion had a lot to do with that, but it isn’t the whole thing. I was already becoming disaffected by the left when Roe was decided (Yup, I’m that old.) Possibly being “mugged by reality” and “having to meet payroll” had a lot to do with it. But a lot of it, I think, had to do with little bits and pieces of information; some of which were persuasive and some of which were not, gathered over time.

I think sites like this are worthwhile in that they do provide lots of bits of information. Some are persuasive and some are not.

When it comes to the religious issues, to be frank, I am not particularly interested in what the proselytes of other religions have to say. In religion, I am not moving, period. But you can tell that sometimes others are not so convinced. Some are not very knowledgeable. Now and then I read something by some truly erudite apologist that impresses me a great deal.

We read scripture over and over again, don’t we?

 

[Verisimilitude]

Yes, I am beginning to think so but not because of an unwillingness to be exosed to different belief systems or interpretations to make a sound judgement regarding contentious issues, but because of illigitimate and unjust restrictions placed upon debate that I feel violate the 1st Amendment.

 

[rlg94086]

I don’t think we are wasting our time. I’ve deepened my understanding of Church teaching through these fora. I’ve also sharpened my apologetics knowledge and skills to defend my faith.

It is also a good place to discuss important topics of the day with other Catholics. While we don’t all agree, I think that is the key value. There are other fora out there where I could go to discuss issues with people who agree with me. Here, I get a mix.

 

[agnostic]

I am not particularly interested in what the proselytes of other religions have to say. In religion, I am not moving, period.

I find this to be true on other boards as well. People say they are open minded and encourage debate etc but in fact they will totally reject out of hand anything that does not fit into their world view in particular pertaining to their religious beliefs and then set about trying to prove what they are right and the opposing view is wrong. Course meantime the opposing view is setting out what they are right and you are wrong. Neither side open to the other nor really listening. And certainly not questioning. It’s like somehow it would be a sin to question something in your faith in case you changed somehow. So yeah, I’d agree with the opening statement. But then it’s hardly new is it? Think on all the ideologies that have triggered world unrest.

 

[rlg94086]

I find this to be true on other boards as well. People say they are open minded and encourage debate etc but in fact they will totally reject out of hand anything that does not fit into their world view in particular pertaining to their religious beliefs and then set about trying to prove what they are right and the opposing view is wrong. Course meantime the opposing view is setting out what they are right and you are wrong. Neither side open to the other nor really listening. And certainly not questioning. It’s like somehow it would be a sin to question something in your faith in case you changed somehow. So yeah, I’d agree with the opening statement. But then it’s hardly new is it? Think on all the ideologies that have triggered world unrest.

I hope you are earnest in your belief in open-mindedness. Since you are on a Catholic forum, I encourage you to open your mind about abortion and the teaching of the Church…and to soften your heart regarding your hatred/mistrust of men.

 

[agnostic]

I hope you are earnest in your belief in open-mindedness.

If I wasn’t open minded, then why would I have ordered 2 books from Amazon that someone recommended to me on here on the catholic faith And why would I be asking questions here, if not seeking answers or at the very least trying to improve my understanding of a church of which I know next to nothing I do, however, take exception to one of the books though - I mean come on - catholicism for dummies - I mean, I’ve got a BA, a BSc and and MSc and everything

Since you are on a Catholic forum, I encourage you to open your mind about abortion and the teaching of the Church

Well, I’d like to think my mind is open on this, and every subject actually; I do after all deal with women facing this issue on a daily basis, but as you know, rather than educate me in what your church teaches, I merely got told I was uneducated, a man hater, a catholic hater, a church hater and I needed psychiatric help
Nothing in there so far that would make me doubt for one single second my unwavering belief in the woman’s right to chose. Especially when you consider the alternative options open to these women. I do however, as I pointed out on another post, SUPPORT women to go full term if that is what they choose. Part of the right to choose is the right to choose to keep the baby and the practical support we offer women to do this far exceeds anything offered by any other organisations or institutions, and believe me when I tell you if it was not for this support, abortion would be these womens ONLY option - therefore they would have NO choice.

…and to soften your heart regarding your hatred/mistrust of men.

YOU are the one that agreed with some bob or other that I hated men. So, for the hard of understanding - let me say one more time - I do NOT hate men. I very much Like men - I just couldn’t eat a whole one in one sitting, that’s all

 

[rlg94086]

YOU are the one that agreed with some bob or other that I hated men. So, for the hard of understanding - let me say one more time - I do NOT hate men. I very much Like men -** I just couldn’t eat a whole one in one sitting, that’s all**

I’m glad you ordered the books, and I am sorry we got off on the wrong foot. I truly wish you had come onto that thread with a less nasty tone, as I would not have assumed you hate men. Your insults of the clergy, blaming of men and calling my posts patronising and mysogynistic put me off for some reason. I should have seen through your cleverly disguised open-mindedness.

I do like your sense of humor, and I hope you find the Truth in Jesus Christ and His Church.

 

[Bennie_P]

I read an article written by an expert in sociology and media the other day. He had some very interesting comments about how we choose our sources of information. To give you the abridged version he basically said **“people will seek out sources of information which confirm their view of the world”. **

This is of course true for both sides of the political/ideological spectrum. This leads me to whether we are actually learning anything here. I mean, our minds are essentially made up aren’t they?

Everybody thinks that they are the exception. “Well I have seen/lived/read both sides of that particular issue, and can say blah blah…”

What do people think of this? Are you the exception? Can you really ever think critically when you already have a set “view of the world”?

Wasting time? most likely, my basic world view hasn’t changed since coming here, (I had a major chnge in my world view over the last 15 years before coming here though) but I have learned alot and even changed my view on a few minor issues, minor to me, not so minor with the people that I have debated with… on what I consider major issues, life issues, morality and family issues I have dug my heel heals in real deep and learned to debate with more passion and conviction. On the major issues I already been on the opposite end of my current world view and truly believe most will go conservative on those issues once they have a conversion experience that brings one toward being in God’s will and purpose in life, though many “liberal” thinkers think they will never go conservative…but I am assured, sooner or later,they will look back, see the error, or die being angry, hateful and mean old liberals Even WC Fields on his death bed was looking for a loop hole in the Bible, hope he found it:tiphat:

Your mind is never made up until it has no more choices to make…

 

[agnostic]

Your insults of the clergy, blaming of men and calling my posts patronising and mysogynistic put me off for some reason. I should have seen through your cleverly disguised open-mindedness.

Ok. I’ll admit it - perhaps, just perhaps, my very first posting and subsequent follow ups were NOT written in a very hospitable tone. Just perhaps, ok .
But I would plead in mitigating circumstance that, by pure accident, I wondered onto this board and that thread, following a series of internet links from elsewhere, and bearing in mind, at the hands of moderate, god fearing christians my colleagues and I have had:

• houses attacked and broken into
• threatened with rape
• cars stolen and set on fire
• human excrement sent through the mail
• been physically assaulted
• been spat at
• threatened verbally
• and attempted murder by being run at by cars who had no intention of stopping

Now, that was at the hands of moderate god fearing christians - can you imagine my fear when I realised I was surrounded on all sides by **catholics **

 

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/peace;

What do people think of this?

I joined this forum with a good intention to learn about Catholics.

Though unfortunately now I am spending time fighting with some Christians (most of the time ) , I don’t think joining here is a waste of time .

God Willing , I will be able to learn about other faith as well as let them know about my faith if they have any genuine questions

 

[rlg94086]

But I would plead in mitigating circumstance that, by pure accident, I wondered onto this board and that thread, following a series of internet links from elsewhere, and bearing in mind, at the hands of moderate, god fearing christians my colleagues and I have had:

*** houses attacked and broken into**
*** threatened with rape**
*** cars stolen and set on fire**
*** human excrement sent through the mail**
*** been physically assaulted**
*** been spat at**
*** threatened verbally**
*** and attempted murder by being run at by cars who had no intention of stopping**

Now, that was at the hands of moderate god fearing christians - can you imagine my fear when I realised I was surrounded on all sides by **catholics **

That is very sad. I certainly hope that no Catholics did those things, though they are human as well so it is not an impossibility.

Sadly, you will hear similar such attacks on those who are on the pro-life side of the equation. I personally have not been on “the front lines.” I’m sure I will be admonished by some of my fellow Catholic pro-lifers, but my activities have been behind the scenes - praying, contributing, etc. I am looking to help at our local life center, but I haven’t signed up to do it yet.

I’m sorry to hear of your experiences. Clearly they aren’t what we are called to do either by Jesus or His Church. We are called to humility and love for others. If you haven’t heard them before, the first and second “greatest” commandments are…

“You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the greatest and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” - Matt 22:37-40

Last I checked, none of the items you listed would constitute loving your neighbor as yourself.

Please keep in mind as you spend time on these fora, that our “open-mindedness” does not mean that we will oppose the clear teaching authority of Christ’s Church on earth; however, we should present the Truth with love. We don’t always do a great job of that, as you have already found out. Our mitigating circumstances? We are all fallen human beings who come up short.

 

[strngrnrth]

But I would plead in mitigating circumstance that, by pure accident, I wondered onto this board and that thread, following a series of internet links from elsewhere, and bearing in mind, at the hands of moderate, god fearing christians my colleagues and I have had:

• houses attacked and broken into
• threatened with rape
• cars stolen and set on fire
• human excrement sent through the mail
• been physically assaulted
• been spat at
• threatened verbally
• and attempted murder by being run at by cars who had no intention of stopping

Now, that was at the hands of moderate god fearing christians - can you imagine my fear when I realised I was surrounded on all sides by **catholics **

Wrong. If I said that I had heard a committed environmentalist advocate burning some polystyrene to watch the colors it made, there would be an error somewhere in that sentence. In the same way, there is an error in your statement. There are people who do such things, but they aren’t moderate God-fearing Christians any more than a foam-burning fan is a committed environmentalist. It’s a contradiction in terms.

 

[agnostic]

In the same way, there is an error in your statement. There are people who do such things, but they aren’t moderate God-fearing Christians any more than a foam-burning fan is a committed environmentalist. It’s a contradiction in terms.

OK - well I guess it was all the God and Jesus and **Burn in Hell **signs and bibles that made me think they were god fearing christians.

And I used the term moderate, as opposed to extreme, because they haven’t actually killed any of us here yet - as opposed to what has happened elsewhere