Are Works Necessary for Salvation?

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I have a kind of unrelated question, what do you guys mean by “works”? Is that the same as almsgiving? Or charity (love)? I’m not sure. Thanks

Pax,
Zach
 
zach_dunn said:
I have a kind of unrelated question, what do you guys mean by “works”? Is that the same as almsgiving? Or charity (love)? I’m not sure. Thanks

Pax,
Zach
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Hi Zach,

“Works” means praying for people, giving alms, helping your neighbor, offering praise to God, obeying His commandments, etc.

Pax,
SHW
 
Thanks, everyone, for your (name removed by moderator)ut. Much appreciated. 🙂

I am trying to find all of the Scriptures which pertain to this subject.

Pax,
SHW
 
The post on today’s blog at acts17verse28.blogspot.com/ discussed this question. Bottom line - it’s not possible for a aperson to have faith - true faith - without having a changed life. “By their fruits you will know them.”
 
I agree with the #5 post of Peter Dawson, faith and works are the same.
Remember that time when Jesus fed people with the loaves and the fishes after
they listened to Him talking for 3 days? Well, after that they said to Him, “What
must we do to do the works of God?” and Jesus said, "This is the work of God:
to believe in the One whom He sent, Jesus Christ.
 
Cachonga said:
It seems as if you’ve walked in on the middle of the conversation. Peter Dawson brought up the parable of the talents to try and show that his interpretation of the good Samaritan parable was valid. I would suggest you go back and read what went before.
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:)I was making the point that PD was getting at, in that contained in this parable Jesus is talking about the same things being given…
No i didn’t “walk” into the middle i was here at the begining of this thread…

Try answering the question i posed to you.
 
SHW said:
Hi Zach,

“Works” means praying for people, giving alms, helping your neighbor, offering praise to God, obeying His commandments, etc.

Pax,
SHW
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I would enlarge the concept. “Works” includes all exercises of the human will. Typically, in the faith versus works argument context, the word “works” is presumed to include all exercises of the will except decisions to “have faith” in God. However, I maintain that that is a false distinction. I say that faith is a work, and works are faith in motion, indistinguishable from faith.
 
SHW said:
Some non-Catholic members of this forum insist that no works are ever necessary in order to inherit eternal life. They claim that once they are saved, then they can never be lost because no works matter; not ever! They are “saved” and “sealed” forever, according to their interpretations of Scripture.

These are two of their favorite Scripture passages:

Ephesians 2:8-9 “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.”

Ephesians 1:13-14 “In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.”

What would you tell them in response?

Pax,
SHW
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First, ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ… They can’t just take things out of context, and slap their own meaning on them which conflicts with what the inspired author meant… Actually, they do this all the time, but they can’t do it legitimately…, they can’t do it and at the same time be in communion with the truth.

Ephesians 2:8-9 means we are saved by God’s grace alone, which is exactly what the Catholic Church teaches. We are not saved by works alone, or works without faith. Protestants like to dissect and take out of context, and so give it the meanings they desire. Nevertheless, We are saved by God’s gift of grace, through faith working in charity, as the Church teaches and is found in the full Scriptures taken together.

Ephesians 1:13-14 key is believing which means having faith, being committed to and obeying… so, believing does not mean “faith alone” as the ignorant prefer. Believing includes doing what Christ asked, like forgiving others. Can we get to Heaven without being forgiven? Yet, we know that if we don’t forgive, that neither will the Father forgive us. What about eating and drinking the Body and Blood of Christ, else we have no life in us? How can we be in friendship with Christ, if we have no life in us?
 
Peter_Dawson said:
I would enlarge the concept. “Works” includes all exercises of the human will. Typically, in the faith versus works argument context, the word “works” is presumed to include all exercises of the will except decisions to “have faith” in God. However, I maintain that that is a false distinction. I say that faith is a work, and works are faith in motion, indistinguishable from faith.
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I think Galatians sums up this concept:

Galatians 5:6 “For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.”

Pax,
SHW
 
Peter_Dawson said:
I would enlarge the concept. “Works” includes all exercises of the human will. Typically, in the faith versus works argument context, the word “works” is presumed to include all exercises of the will except decisions to “have faith” in God. However, I maintain that that is a false distinction. I say that faith is a work, and works are faith in motion, indistinguishable from faith.
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It’s always a false argument to say faith vs. works, which is what typically Protestants like to make it into. By arguing a false premise, they don’t work on real footing. We Catholics know it’s truly both, faith and works, just like is recorded in the great Catholic book, the Bible.

To have a valid criticism of any Catholic official teaching, two things are required
  1. The Catholic Church must really and truly teach it (not a variation of, or first cousin of).
  2. The criticism of the teaching must be valid.
No one has ever had both together. Protestants more commonly fairly criticize some falsely represented teaching, thereby having 1 wrong, and 2 correct. Occasionally, they will have the teaching identified correctly, but fail to have a valid criticism, thereby having 1 correct, but 2 wrong. If both 1 and 2 are not correct, then there is no valid criticism, but a false accusation, kinda like the eighth commandment admonished against. One cannot seek the truth, and forever remain Protestant. Unfortunately, the spirit of Protestantism exists outside and sadly some inside the Catholic Church. The spirit of Protestantism is often opposed to the Holy Spirit.
 
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