Are you a schismatic if you don’t believe Francis is the pope and Benedict is?

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And the context of this conversation? Might one suggest that rather than opening up an accusation of schism and allowing the usual shark swarm of posters in for the kill that you simply ask the priest what he meant? I am hoping that he addressed this remark to you personally and this is not another of those, “I overheard somebody’ or ‘my friend said” or, my personal unfavorite, “Well this was a hypothetical of course”. . .
 
CHAZER2222 said:
A priest said he says Benedict our pope in private masses and Francis in public masses
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Was this priest in some sort of irregular group (SSPX for instance)?

Remember, Benedict abdicated of his own will. Some say that he was ‘blackmailed’. However, if anyone knows the theology of the Papacy, it’s Benedict. He knows that lying and abdicating without wanting to would be a disastrous thing to do and it does in fact insult the holy man’s intelligence by saying this.

Pope Benedict has likened his position to that of an Emeritus Bishop of a Diocese. My archdiocese has an incumbent Archbishop and an Emeritus Archbishop. The incumbent Archbishop is the present Ordinary. The Emeritus Archbishop is the former Ordinary. The Pope Benedict situation is exactly the same. Francis is the incumbent Pope and Benedict is the Emeritus Pope.
 
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CHAZER2222 said:
Are you a schismatic if you don’t believe Francis is the pope and Benedict is?
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No, just ignorant.

“Pope” isn’t a thing in and of itself. Rather, it is and aspect being the Bishop of Rome. And it’s been established for more than a millennium and a half that a bishop can leave his see. When the Bishop of Rome leaves his see, as a consequence he is no longer pope.

By the logic of the contrary position, most of the bishops in sees around the world would not be the bishops of those seems, as they were appointed when the see was vacated alive, rather than by the incumbent dying . . .
 
Full blown schismatic, no. Potentially spiritually troubled, yes.

There is nothing to indicate that Pope Benedict XVI resigned against his will.
 
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This is what I think was planned by the Holy Spirit. Who could have accelerated Pope John Paul II’s canonisation better than Cd Ratzinger who knew him so well as to know with almost certainty of his qualification to be beatified. That perfect moment in my opinion was in itself a miracle. I also envision St John Paul II as being the worker of many miracles in these next few decades and a cause for unlimited hope for the Church.

Pope Benedict XVI will be remembered as the Pope responsible for the canonisation one of the greatest Popes.

His role was complete.
 
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catholic03 said:
He knows that lying and abdicating without wanting to would be a disastrous thing to do and it does in fact insult the holy man’s intelligence by saying this.
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I completely agree with everything you’ve said, but generally theories about why Pope Benedict is still the Pope also say that basically by his resignation he let Cardinals elect something like a Papal Legate over entire Church with full powers. Basically Francis would be “Pope” without infallibility and ability to call Ecumenical Councils… but he would be able to even appoint Cardinals! So Pope Benedict wouldn’t really leave Church in disastrous place.

I find that theory fascinating. Applicable to today’s situation? No. Really done by Benedict? No. But theory behind Pope being able to leave a placeholder “pope”?.. Fascinating.
 
Seriously? His role was ‘complete’ and then he had to abdicate, something no other pope has done for centuries?

I love all our popes, and I’m glad you say ‘I think” and not “this IS”, but really. . . I think your speculation is a little bit much.

Oh, and Pope Benedict is Pope Emeritus, and Pope Francis is THE Pope. Just so you know I can disagree with your opinion and not be ‘against Pope Francis” (LOL).
 
CHAZER2222 said:
Are you a schismatic if you don’t believe Francis is the pope and Benedict is? A priest said he says Benedict our pope in private masses and Francis in public masses
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Catechism of the Catholic Church
2089 … schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him. 11
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Personally, the matter is beyond our pay grade, at least my pay grade. It took a long time, but I finally was able to put Vatican Politics politics behind me, and focus on the faith itself. I continue to look to the lives of the Saints, our Lady, and her Holy Son, King of the Universe for an example.

We will never know while on Earth why thing are the way they have been in Rome. You might as well spend your time playing online Battleship as to try and figure it out, but that is just where I am at and hope to stay. It is a lot less stressful.

I reserve the right to momentarily backslide at the next synod! 😉
 
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CHAZER2222 said:
A priest said he says Benedict our pope in private masses and Francis in public masses
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Not even Benedict XVI claims that he is the Pope. He is quite clear that Francis is the Pontiff.

This Priest should not be doing this.
 
catholic03 said:
Was this priest in some sort of irregular group (SSPX for instance)?
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All SSPX priests and bishops mention Pope Francis: Oremus pro Pontifice nostro Franciscus…. It’s the Resistance clergy who believe that BXVI is still pope.
 
I don’t think someone is schismatic who says this.
I think he is stupid though.
 
It seems to be extremely grave sin in general, especially for a cleric, to follow a narrow conspiracy theory about who the pope is. Then to put it into liturgy? This is very bad.

If he is traditionally minded, you might show him Fr. Cartechini’s famous chart on theological notes - you can find it here:

http://www.the-pope.com/theolnotes.html

See the line about Pius XI.

One might argue about all the details of the chart, and the moral penalties, but “theological certainty” is worth pausing over.

You might also send a little letter to his bishop, detailing what he told you, where he told you, when he told you, and if he has told anyone else.
 
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