Are you a Spirit-filled Catholic?

[whatevergirl]

I actually read the thread to mean more…filled with the Holy Spirit, than like something to mean spirit in a secular sense…like team ‘spirit.’ The Apostles were filled with the Holy Spirit, and thus could witness and evangelize because of being ‘spirit filled.’ That’s how I took the thread to mean…it’s been an interesting topic.

 

[Nick9]

I just found out that the souls in Purgatory are at the Tabernacle, in the Real Presence, with Christ… which is probably why i feel i am in Purgatory when i am There… Have you ever spent a lot of time There?

hi distracted, I don’t spend enough time in front of the Blessed Sacrament, unfortunately. I do seem to have spent plenty of time in purgatory, though . My parish priest has recently told me I can have a key to the Church and spend time in front of the Blessed Sacrament while I am discerning my vocation.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

grandfather

Have you read the recent book containing Mother Teresa’s correspondence? Do you know about the desperate bleak darkness Saint Therese went through in her last days?

I haven’t read the book, but know what its all about. My wife has been reading it.

You’re confusing the issue here.

First off, Mother Teresa was in the “Dark Night of Spirit,” which few souls actually get to. However, long before she went into this dark night, she went through the other nights as described by St. John of the Cross, the Active Night of Sense and Passive Night of Sense. In the first, she received great consolations from God and even in the Passive Night of Sense, received her call to go out and serve the poor. It is in these consolations that she was spiritually moved. The Dark Night of Spirit, is for those who have infused contemplation, where the consolations from God are removed, and they act on pure faith.

Did Saint Francis ever refer to himself or anyone else as “spirit filled”, or Therese, or any of the saints"?

Yes, and those who wrote about him, use the term “Spirit Filled.”
In fact, its a term used by Catholic writers throughout history.

Is there a difference between a person who is “spirit filled” and a person who is holy?

Yes, one person is moved by the Spirit, and may eventually achieve holiness. But a person who is Holy, is also Spirit Filled.

Jim

We should seekthe giver of gifts. “Seek ye first…”

No one is talking about seeking anything other than union with God. Gifts that we receive are a result of God’s doing, not ours.

Consolations are indeed gifts from God. They can not be flawed. They are not means by which to measure the state of a soul

And I don’t know why you’re making this statement. It has little to do with what people are saying her.

Quiet frankly, I don’t understand why your debating this issue?

If God gives a person consolations and joy, I praise God, not try to take the gift the person received away from them.

Jim

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I think its important here to point out, that the term,
“Sprit-Filled,” means “Filled with the Holy Spirit.”

It is a term used in Scripture and one example begins with Jesus.

Filled with the holy Spirit, Jesus returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit into the desert. Luke 4:1

Also we have;

And they were all filled with the holy Spirit and began to speak in different tongues, 4 as the Spirit enabled them to proclaim. Acts 2:4

So it is true, we receive the Holy Spirit at Baptism, but we experience His presence, when we open ourselves up to receive the gift of faith.

Jim

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I happened to come across this in the Catechism;

2782
We can adore the Father because he has caused us to be reborn to his life by adopting us as his children in his only Son: by Baptism, he incorporates us into the Body of his Christ; through the anointing of his Spirit who flows from the head to the members, he makes us other “Christs.”

God, indeed, who has predestined us to adoption as his sons, has conformed us to the glorious Body of Christ. So then you who have become sharers in Christ are appropriately called "Christs."34

The new man, reborn and restored to his God by grace , says first of all, “Father!” because he has now begun to be a son.

We are reborn or born again, but for many of us, who were Baptized as infants, this rebirth doesn’t become a reality, until
we accept Jesus Christ into our lives.

Then it seems, that the gifts we received at Baptism, which have been laying in our internal storage room, are brought out and we now experience them.

Jim

 

[Nicholas82]

thanks… i think what i went through was … how do i say it? well, it was an exaggeration (?) of what you say here… although that doesn’t sound right either… Anyway, i am concerned for other believers because it could be that if so few have actually gone through this… that maybe something is lacking in their commitment to Christ… I mean, maybe not to the point of being in danger of Hell… but, well, Purgatory is in this life AND in the next - for those who choose Christ… I am thinking that being filled with God’s Holy Spirit is just what happens in purgatory… so we should try to go through that here, as God has shown (to saints) is what he prefers… To wait to do one’s Purgation in the next life is not a good thing… because the purgatorial fires are rigorous… (again, according to the saints, many of whom were visited by souls in Purgatory). I just found out that the souls in Purgatory are at the Tabernacle, in the Real Presence, with Christ… which is probably why i feel i am in Purgatory when i am There… Have you ever spent a lot of time There?

This sort of spiritual pride is exactly the sort of spiritual delusion I am talking about. The Holy Spirit shouldn’t puff one up. If you have experienced grace and comfort from God remember that none of us are worthy. To doubt the committment and faith of others because they have not shared your personal experience is dangerous and prideful. The Holy Spirit transforms and sanctifies us, and if He does so without tingly feelings sometimes, don’t worry about it.

 

[distracted]

hi distracted, I don’t spend enough time in front of the Blessed Sacrament, unfortunately. I do seem to have spent plenty of time in purgatory, though . My parish priest has recently told me I can have a key to the Church and spend time in front of the Blessed Sacrament while I am discerning my vocation.

wow… you are fortunate… i would love to have a key…

but my pastor won’t take a hint & give me one… i guess there is something kind of “psycho” - looking about me… :bigyikes: :hypno:



maybe he thinks i’m going to try to steal the Tabernacle…

 

[Nick9]

wow… you are fortunate… i would love to have a key…

but my pastor won’t take a hint & give me one… i guess there is something kind of “psycho” - looking about me… :bigyikes: :hypno:



maybe he thinks i’m going to try to steal the Tabernacle…

don’t worry, I am thought of little better . Everyone seems to have keys but me and he hasn’t given me the church key yet.

 

[distracted]

don’t worry, I am thought of little better . Everyone seems to have keys but me and he hasn’t given me the church key yet.

i used to feel the same way - Everyone has a key but me…

But my pastor doesn’t value the R Presence… (my viewpoint)…

I think if you spend “too much” time There, peple think you are trying to be holier than them & they start hating you… (envy?).

But you know… If i was so holy… I woudn’t need to spend time with Jesus…

Hello!!!

 

[Cam-masta]

The Catholic Church teaches us to work out our salvation on a daily basis and isn’t dependent on subjective feelings. I was a fundamentalist Christian for a few years before coming home to the Church, so I do not like the concept of “accepting Jesus as your personal savior”. It is a false individualism that was foreign to the Jews in the O.T, as well as the early Fathers and didn’t emerge, likely, until the late 18th century. They knew nothing of this notion of “accepting Christ as your personal savior”. If that is what you mean by spirit-filled, they would no nothing of it. What they did know was the beauty and mystery of God expressed in the Incarnation. Baptism, Confirmation Penance and Holy Communion, and contemplative prayer etc which express this mystery of God’s search for, and intimate union with man. In a word: Incarnation.

I think there is a danger of believing many Catholics to be void of this relationship with Christ due to their not “praying the sinners prayer,” which is the often used as a litmus test for salvation and being filled with the Spirit. If that is the case, every Catholic who ever prayed the Our Father with sincerity is spirit filled - for they are sinners praying the prayer Christ gave to his Church. I know charismatic Catholics who have claimed that many Catholics do not have a personal relationship with Christ. My response is: “how do you know?” Does not God know these intimate details of one’s spiritual life which man cannot touch? Is it not therefore foolish to make such a statement? There is a personal aspect in our relationship to God, but the “my” shouldn’t take precedence over the “our” in our common union (Communion) with Christ together as one Church.

 

[Cam-masta]

I have searched scripture and can not find the terminology, a requirement, or any reference to having a personal relationship with Christ as having anything to do with salvation, nor is it findable in scripture at all, anywhere. Some Protestants who insist that all doctrine come from scripture concocted this nonsense and it is nowhere in scripture.

What is in scripture is that Jesus says in order to have life within us we must eat His body and drink His blood. Catholics do that, and although it is not found in scripture I would say that is pretty personal as far as relationships go.

T

I think that sometimes grace is visible. Holiness is catching. The Holy Spirit working in souls draws others to God. But souls
who do have an intimacy with God, call it personal relationship if you will, are often hidden. They don’t flaunt it. So you have to kind of keep your eye out for them.

The term spirit filled is another new notion that I think comes from the Charismatic movement. It seems to be used to conote some special gifts these people think they have that others lack, those of us who are not spirit filled I guess. Are you spirit filled? Its kind of like Protestants asking if you are saved.

They get wound up about seeking spiritual gifts. Maybe I am an old grouch. I don’t want to get in a clamor or worked up in a public prayer session. I like being quiet. If God wants to give me gifts or use me for something or other I am available. If He wants me to sit here and be still, that is the best for me. All I need to know is God loves me and faith tells me that. If other folks want to get all in a tizzy and work themselves into excited states of agitation and call it spirit filled that is their call.

Living the Christian life is really pretty simple. All we have to do is love one another and love is above all the other manifestations or gifts of the Holy Spirit. It is the greatest gift of all. If you do that you please God and have His Spirit within you.

Saint Paul is very clear about it. All the other gifts are useless without love. We are empty gongs without love. If you have love you have all you need.

Actually, I couldn’t put it better myself…must be the wisdom that comes with age. .

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Well, Jesus is my pesonal savior. Our relationship with Christ is personal.

No one says it better than our Blessed Mother.

My soul proclaims the greatness of the Lord;
my spirit rejoices in God my savior.

For he has looked upon his handmaid’s lowliness; behold, from now on will all ages call me blessed.

The Mighty One has done great things for me, and holy is his name. Luke 46-49

Jim

 

[distracted]

Well, Jesus is my pesonal savior. Our relationship with Christ is personal.

Jim

why do we have to add the words “personal”? I mean, He is everyone’s savior… & those words are not in the Bible or in many Church documents that i know of…

(not saying i dont’ believe in having a personal relationship with Jesus… )

 

[notsmart]

I think, there is nothing personal about being in a large group of people that are in a sense, a large family. Once, you start thinking its “personal” you start thinking outside of the entire family as a whole, you seperate yourself in a sense.
As far as being a spirit filled catholic goes- (speaking as a non christian now) I am guessing that we all come to a sense of desire for Jesus in different ways for different reasons.
My desire was not in a way I have seen so many times over the many years on tv, that used to make me roll my eyes. I could not identify with the bum alcholic out on his luck, hitting bottom having bible believing christians yelling at him that all he needed was Jesus! And bam! Suddenly he is getting baptised “by the spirit” and boom! He is now a christian. Did not make any sense to me at all. I know thats televangelism at its worst, but it surely did not help me to take anything seriously.
Now, that man may have been touched, repented, and moved on in a walk with Jesus, but we never get follow ups on these people to know.

 

[distracted]

I Once, you start thinking its “personal” you start thinking outside of the entire family as a whole, you seperate yourself in a sense.

Good point… separating oneself like that causes one to become argumentative… etc…

As far as being a spirit filled catholic goes- (speaking as a non christian now) I am guessing that we all come to a sense of desire for Jesus in different ways for different reasons.

are you saying you are not a Christian?

Now, that man may have been touched, repented, and moved on in a walk with Jesus, but we never get follow ups on these people to know.

Well, some people beleive in OSAS… so they probably think no follow up is needed except maybe to check on his physical well-being… or economic…

i don’t know… there is just something about aht “personal” thing that bothers me… It sounds kind of American or something… It conjurs to mind that old “each to his own” type of thing… that leads to so many problems… After all, thats what thye say about abortion… “Don’t want an abortion? Don’t have one… but everyone should be able to make his own personal choice…”

Yeah… everyone should, in a free society, have the choice of whether or not to kill his own children… Freedom is God…

i read this story about a woman who became a Christian, was very devout for a time… She workd in the pro-life movement…Then she became pregnant… had an aborrtion… rationalized it, of course…

This OSAS mentality is very dangerous… this attitude of “I can decide for myself what is truth…(God’s truth)”.

 

[notsmart]

Distracted,

No, I am not a christian. We’ll see what happens after I talk to the Priest tommorow about that.

EDIT To add, abortion is a topic that led me here to help a friend.

 

[distracted]

Distracted,

No, I am not a christian. We’ll see what happens after I talk to the Priest tommorow about that.

EDIT To add, abortion is a topic that led me here to help a friend.

hmm… i would be interested to know how things turn out…

and more details about the abortion thing…

God bless… :heaven: :harp:

 

[JimR-OCDS]

why do we have to add the words “personal”? I mean, He is everyone’s savior… & those words are not in the Bible or in many Church documents that i know of…

(not saying i dont’ believe in having a personal relationship with Jesus… )

Because the love and devotion I give to God, is mine to give, it is my personal gift.

God dwells within each human being who acknowledges Jesus Christ as Lord. When I pray, I go before Him and in His presence. I speak to Him, he speaks to me. He is Lord of my life. I give my personal devotion to Him. Thats what it means, to have a personal relationship with Christ.

The last line of this prayer credited to Mother Teresa, which she kept on her wall, says it best.

          People are often unreasonable, irrational, and self-centered.  Forgive them anyway.

        If you are kind, people may accuse you of selfish, ulterior motives.  Be kind anyway.

        If you are successful, you will win some unfaithful friends and some genuine enemies.  Succeed anyway.

       If you are honest and sincere people may deceive you.  Be honest and sincere anyway.

        What you spend years creating, others could destroy overnight.  Create anyway.

        If you find serenity and happiness, some may be jealous.  Be happy anyway.

        The good you do today, will often be forgotten.  Do good anyway.

     Give the best you have, and it will never be enough.  Give your best anyway.

     In the final analysis, it is between you and God.  It was never between you and them anyway.

It is not accepted that Mother Teresa wrote this, but she valued it.

Jim

 

[distracted]

The last line of this prayer credited to Mother Teresa, which she kept on her wall, says it best.

It is not accepted that Mother Teresa wrote this, but she valued it.

Jim

have you ever spent a lot of time in the Real Presence of Christ in the Church? (Are you Catholic?)

Also: thanks for that thing on Mother T’s wall… I needed to read that… Read it b4, yrs ago… but needed to read it again…

 

[JimR-OCDS]

have you ever spent a lot of time in the Real Presence of Christ in the Church? (Are you Catholic?)

Also: thanks for that thing on Mother T’s wall… I needed to read that… Read it b4, yrs ago… but needed to read it again…

Yes I’m Catholic and my wife and myself are both professed Secular Order Discalced Carmelites. We are scheduled adorers at the local adoration chapel, where we pray before the Blessed Sacarament every Saturday afternoon.

Jim