Are you channeling satan when opening up your mind and asking to receive tongues?

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mary15

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To better pray to God, would it be channeling satan or other diabolic spirits by opening up your mind and asking to be gifted with the unknown languages of tongues?

This seems feasible, but I would love to hear back from others who are educated on such matters, as I am a beginner when it comes to the faith of the Church, as well as to prayer.

God bless.
 
Catholics don’t typically pray for the gift of tongues. Pray for the 7 gifts of the Holy Spirit instead If you are a new Catholic stick to the basics. God will supply you with all you need in prayer.
 
Oh, boy…

Anyway, not a single word in any language is needed for profound prayer. The heart is more useful than the tongue for prayer, actually. As to tongues, that is EXTREMELY controversial here and some Catholics have an almost visceral hatred of it. I do not understand their problem, but it remains. You’ll see it here in a few posts from now.

My advice: Call your local Catholic Charismatic Renewal and discuss this with them, realizing that tongues may not be your charism. It is not mine, yet I have had most profound experiences in silent prayer.
 
I’m not sure what you have in mind, but whatever special gift you pray for, should be used for the benefit of the community and to evangelize. As long as your heart is in the right place, I do not see Satan interfering.
 
Hi Mary15,

I’m not sure exactly how to answer your question but I do know that it is something that I’ve chosen not to get involved in.
Some Charismatic writers I’ve read regarding the potential involvement of evil spirits in the Charismatic setting have actually said that basically each and every instance of a Charismatic experience has to be discerned carefully by the person. Well, that seems like an awful lot to ask of such weak, sinful and easily fooled creatures as us. The potential for spiritual deception is just too high. For this reason, the saints taught us not to seek such extraordinary spiritual phenomenon. St. John of the Cross said: "…the devil habitually meddles so freely [in extraordinary phenomenon] that I believe it impossible for a man not to be deceived by them, unless he strive to reject them, such an appearance of truth and security does the devil give them."

Furthermore, what causes doubt for me is that the Catholic Charismatic movement grew out of the non-Catholic Pentecostal experience of “speaking in tongues”, which is essentially an unknown type of babbling. (This is not what the apostles did. They spoke in other languages, not unknown babbling.) It came into the Catholic Church in the late 1960’s when two guys at Duquesne University were seeking a spiritual type of experience. They attended a pentecostal type of prayer meeting where they were “baptized in the Holy Spirit.” They then laid their hands on others who were also “baptized in the Holy Spirit.” It is very odd to me that this was immediately believed to be, definitively and without any doubt, the Holy Spirit. As someone who is also doubtful about the movement has said and I paraphrase, “this is a shocking level of presumption in Catholic understanding.”

I have a few questions that maybe others could answer: How did the original Pentecostals know that this was definitely the Holy Spirit? How did these few Catholics in the 60’s know that it was definitely the Holy Spirit that made them start babbling? Why would God choose two Catholic guys who were seeking a spiritual experience and who were dabbling in Pentecostal Christianity to bring a new “outpouring of the Holy Spirit” to the Church? And why do we need an outpouring beyond the Sacrament of Confirmation? It seems to me that they had hands laid on them, they felt a rush, started babbling and everyone just seems to have assumed it was the Holy Spirit. Given the warnings of the saints, does this seem wise?
 
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I agree with @Limoncello4021. Don’t worry about praying in tongues. Remember 1 Cor. 13.

Suggestions: When this crisis is over, go to confession and Holy Communion. Prepare yourself to receive Our Lord and make a good thanksgiving when you have Him within you. Many Saints have said that the best time to ask God for graces is after you receive Him in Holy Communion.

I was involved in the charismatic movement in my senior year in college. I did it because my Catholic friends were into it and our chaplain was promoting it. I never really felt comfortable in the charismatic movement.

In Shown To Be Holy, it states that we are more open to the guidance of the Holy Spirit after we use the ordinary means God gives us - prayer, Liturgy/Mass, the Sacraments, fasting, almsgiving etc. IOW, we shouldn’t expect the gift of tongues if we’re neglecting the basics.
 
The Charismatic Renewal was born out of a reaction to the “hijacking” of devotion to the Holy Spirit by certain American preachers in the theologically fertile 1800s.

Q: Have there been abuses?
A: Humans are involved.

What is important to remember is that the Renewal is under the control of the local Bishop. Gotta count for something.

Again, IME some Catholics who are experiencing emotional or psychological problems tend to stand out. This is the exception which demonstrates the rule.
  1. The charisms are real.
  2. We are called to use our charisms.
  3. What are they?
  4. How can we find out?
  5. Of course, testing of the spirits is absolutely necessary - but what are the fruits? Humility, docility, submission, obedience and good fruits eliminate the influence of the evil one.
  6. Name any other aspect of the Church that promotes and encourages the use of the charisms.
  7. The Franciscan Friar/Priest who is the preacher of the Papal household since Pope Saint John Paul II is a charismatic.
Personally, I think the slur of “channeling” the devil was planted by the evil one himself so as to oppose the good fruits of the Holy Spirit’s action in our lives and hearts.
 
You would do well to focus on the first things, and not the final things. Pentecost came, for the apostles, at the end - in the maturity, the “finishing” - of their formation/training/being-discipled work in them, by their Master/Teacher/Lord Jesus.

Worrying about the roof before the foundation of the house is even begun, is a bit premature.
Knocking at the door of the SEAL team, before one has hardly begun basic recruit training, is a bit premature.
Writing applications for becoming a Ph.D. professor at M.I.T. is a bit premature, in the freshman year of high school.
etc. - you get my point. Charisms are totally gift from God, which He gives in His time, if at all. He knows what we need, and what the Church needs - but He is clear about the beginnings. Grow in the Faith, in the Sacramental Life, in fidelity to purity and the moral teachings of the Church, and grow in the life of prayer. The “Four Pillars” of the Faith. Find out how to do that, and hang on! The future will be a surprise.
 
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Thank you for posting all your ideas.

Its still perplexing to me…

Doest God himself decide to give you the gift, and if you open your mind and ask for it repeatedly, then cant something entirely different from Gods HS enter?
 
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mary15 said:
Doest God himself decide to give you the gift, and if you open your mind and ask for it repeatedly, then cant something entirely different from Gods HS enter?
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Hi Mary - I’ll include below the strong cautions by a very reputable spiritual writer. He allows a positive caveat at the end, for balance. Many of his thoughts here come from St. John of the Cross, who also wrote very strong cautions concerning seeking charisms:
On Charisms, or “Graces ‘Gratis Datae’” . From - Fr. Jordan Aumann, O.P., Spiritual Theology, (Christian Classics 1980, p. 422-423.):

Graces “Gratis Datae.” In his first letter to the Corinthians (12:4-6), St. Paul states that there are diverse gifts of God, but that God is one in himself. All that we have received in both the natural and the supernatural order we have received from God, so that we could speak of all these things as graces gratis datae. But theologians reserve the term graces gratis datae for a special type of graces called charisms. Unlike the grace gratum faciens (habitual or actual graces) a grace gratis data has as its immediate purpose not the sanctification of the one who receives it, but the spiritual benefit of others. It is called gratis data not only because it is above the natural power of man but also because it is something outside the realm of personal merit. With this distinction in mind, we may list the following conclusions regarding the graces gratis datae:
  1. The graces gratis datae do not form part of the supernatural organism of the Christian life as do sanctifying grace and the infused virtues and gifts of the Holy Spirit, nor can they be classified under actual grace.
  2. They are what we may call “epiphenomen” of the life of grace and may even be granted to one who lacks sanctifying grace.
  3. They are not and cannot be the object of merit, but are strictly gratuitous.
  4. Since they do not form part of the supernatural organism, they are not contained in the virtualities of sanctifying grace, and hence the normal development of the life of grace could never produce or demand them.
  5. The graces gratis datae require in each instance the direct intervention of God.
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close of part 1 - continued on part II - character-limited lengths on CA
 
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mary15 said:
Doest God himself decide to give you the gift, and if you open your mind and ask for it repeatedly, then cant something entirely different from Gods HS enter?
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Part II - continued from part 1 above:
From these conclusions concerning the nature of the graces gratis datae we can formulate the following norms to serve as a guide for the spiritual director:
  1. It would be temerarious in the normal course of events to desire or to ask God for graces gratis datae or charisms. They are not necessary for salvation nor for sanctification, and they require the direct intervention of God. Far more precious is an act of love than a charismatic gift.
  2. In the event that God does grant a grace gratis datae, it is not a proof that a person is in the state of grace; much less can the gratuitous grace be taken as a sign that the individual is holy.
  3. The graces gratis datae do not sanctify those who receive them. And if anyone in mortal sin were to receive one of these graces, he or she could possibly remain in a sinful state even after the gratuitous gift of charism had been received.
  4. These graces are not given primarily for the benefit of the individual who receives them but for the good of others and for the edification of the Church.
  5. Since the graces gratis datae are something independent of sanctity, it is not necessary that all the saints should have received them. St. Augustine gives the reason for this when he says that they were not given to all the saints lest weak souls should be deceived into thinking that such extraordinary gifts were more important than the good works that are meritorious of eternal life.(3)
But one should not exaggerate this doctrine. The graces gratis datae may indirectly or by redundance be beneficial to the one who receives them; it depends upon the spirit with which such gifts are accepted.
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Could some extraordinary “gifts” be from mere human imitation - or worse, an evil spirit? Yes. If a person is seeking a “gift” for self-centered reasons, and not for true glory of God, bad things can result. To seek the gift more than to seek the Giver is to seek oneself, and not God as He deserves and commands.
 
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The problematic part is the term “open your mind”. What does that mean?
 
mary15 said:
To better pray to God, would it be channeling satan or other diabolic spirits by opening up your mind and asking to be gifted with the unknown languages of tongues?
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No, you’d mainly just run the risk of sounding a bit foolish, or silly…etc.
 
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Mary, did you go through RCIA? Do you have a priest or mentor to speak with? I am asking because you do sound very confused about essential elements of the Catholic faith. I would strongly suggest you make an appointment with your pastor to speak about your issues with prayer. You really need to get this right so you don’t torment yourself or live with a bunch of lies.
 
It is hard to say definitely whether something else will enter in or not but I personally suspect that it’s possible that something can. Other writers more knowledgeable than me also suspect that. I have heard many stories of Charismatic people saying and doing very weird things. I know this is anecdotal and is not perfect proof. I also know that probably most people in the Charismatic movement do not do this. However, what I have heard is enough for me to be concerned. The most interesting example comes from a good friend of mine. There are people in his wife’s family (very much into the Charismatic movement and deliverance ministries) who are followers of a woman who claims to be some kind of prophet. This woman has even worked with a few U.S. bishops in performing exorcisms. But over the last several years she has begun saying very strange things about aliens and bigfoot. Also, they have talked about “other beings” showing up in their prayer meetings, other “spirits”. There also seems to be a lot of pride in her, according to my friend. Again, I know that not everyone involved is not doing this but it is deeply concerning to me when I hear examples like this and I’ve heard many. So again, I don’t think we can say for sure, but there are enough testimonies from people who’ve left the movement for me to be very wary of it all.

Another thing that bothers me is that it seems to lead to pride in a lot of people. There seems to be a sense of superiority with certain people in the movement because they have “the gift of tongues” and if another doesn’t get it then there must be something wrong with them. Again, this is something that many who’ve left the movement have attested to.

Continued…
 
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continued…

However, another criticism is that the Charismatic movement doesn’t lead to deep spirituality but a surface type of spiritual life that is very dependent upon feelings and emotion. It seems that the feelings that one gets from being “slain in the spirit” are pleasurable. They are essentially consolations, where we feel like God is very close to us. And as they are pleasurable they lead us to want to experience them again and again. But according to the spiritual masters such as John of the Cross and Teresa of Avila as well as many others, consolations are fine in the beginning of our spiritual journey, but as we go along God weans us, so to speak, from consolations. They are not how we make the most spiritual progress, Rather, it is in desolation where we make progress, that is when we don’t feel that God is close to us.

In desolation, we feel often as if God is a million miles away from us. And some saints have experienced desolation for years. It can be painful but that is what leads to deep spiritual growth. From what I’ve read and heard from former Charismatics is that it seems to keep people on the level of the emotions and that is not a good enough foundation for growing in holiness which requires a lot of suffering and lack of consolations, sometimes for years. So the question remains–why should we want to get addicted to consolations in the first place, maybe even for years, when all the spiritual masters tell us that this doesn’t lead to deep spiritual progress?

I hope this helps!
 
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tommy37 said:
the Charismatic movement doesn’t lead to deep spirituality but a surface type of spiritual life that is very dependent upon feelings and emotion.
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That’s an assumption of yours based on what you’ve heard.

Here in the thread is a user po18guy who has been actually involved with the Charismatic Renewal, and he doesn’t say they seek consolations, but that they seek to invoke and perfect the Charism of the Holy Spirit.
 
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They may not be seeking them but from what I understand, they just come from being “slain in the spirit”. This is not my experience but the experience and testimony of others who were involved in it.
Out of curiosity, what does "perfecting the charism of the Holy Spirit mean? Not trying to be a smart Alec, I just don’t know what that means.
 
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