Are you offended/disturbed by female clergy in Protestantism?

[John7]

I was taken aback and felt… odd.

1 Timothy 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

(Paul under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit)

 

[Robert_in_SD]

I wasn’t sure where to put this topic but it seemed to fit here I guess.

Anyway, I was walking through the shopping mall recently and saw a woman wearing a Roman collar and walking with a Bible and I remembered that my local Anglican church has a female Vicar (think thats what they call her, maybe Reverend). I must admit, I was taken aback and felt… odd. It made me feel odd because, well, the Priesthood is what it is and a woman attempting to fill that role is unnatural. I don’t know if that makes sense.

This is besides those female clergy who are openly lesbian and have partners. I remember watching an American show with 2 female vicars who were married lesbians and one shot of them had them up on the altar with bread and wine and it gave me the chills.

It is somewhat disconcerting to me, having grown up Catholic and having never been around it as part of the Sunday mass. My guess is that it will become more common as priestesses become more common among the protestant faith communities.

Peace,
Robert

 

[1234]

I am neither offended, nor am I disturbed by female clergy in various sects.

Why should I be? I am not a member of any of those sects, so I do not have any say about what they choose to do.

All I know is that all, and I do mean ALL, of the sects that ordain females are losing membership. They have gotten more and more liberal, in virtually every aspect, and they can’t figure out that this is costing them their membership.

Oh well, that’s their problem, not mine.

I left Protestantism back in 1953.

Well, UU isn’t losing members and it’s had female clergy for a long, long time.

Declining membership is widespread among all denominations, except the evangelicals and pentecostals–but as one Assembly of God member on this forum mentioned, they ordain women.

The only thing that the RC does retain is its membership-- but this is misleading, as the RC maintains its membership through immigration, including illegal immigration, and a high birthrate among first generation Hispanics. RC attendance has dropped, RC adherence to the church’s teaching, especially contraception, is virtually nonexistent, and donations to the RC have dropped in recent decades; parishes are closing or merging, schools closing or merging, the rate of priestly ordination remaining very low, numbers of sisters and brothers continuing to drop dramatically. Eight dioceses, including two archdioceses declaring bankruptcy. Only 22% of Catholics attend mass every week.

cara.georgetown.edu/CARAServices/requestedchurchstats.html

 

[John7]

its just scripture…without comment (just one underline)

This was clearly addressed to certain social conditions of the time and women reguarly teach aspects of our faith in our Church.

yup

Woman plainly are not be always kept in silence.

I agree with you there

 

[Iron_Donkey]

I have to admit that it does throw me when women adopt the traditionally Catholic signs of the priesthood such as the Roman Collar, etc.

Then again, I am never sure how to react to, say, an Anglican male priest either, as I don’t think he’s an actual priest in the Catholic sense (but at least some Anglicans think they are) but don’t want to show disrespect for his method of serving God either, even if I don’t think it is what he thinks it is. I don’t like to see a non-priest who looks like a priest.

To me it just seems to go against what the signs represent. The Roman Collar and vestments and such should be a sign of priesthood, and when a non-priest uses them it bothers me. When that non-priest is a woman, it bothers me slightly more, partially because it’s more obviously false, and partially because, in her case, there is not even the possibility that it become true. I try not to be bothered, but my first reaction is that our symbols have been stolen and twisted to declare a falsehood to be true, even though I know that this is obviously not the intent.

I do, of course, understand that Protestants are, by definition, not Catholic, and that many of them (you) reject the entire idea of an ordained priesthood, and so that their woman ministers aren’t even claiming to be what we claim to be impossible. But the signs still bug me.

 

[Reuben_J]

its just scripture…without comment (just one underline)

I think you did, Jon. You wrote this: (Paul under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit).

I thought that was a fair enough quote of the scripture. Probably nobody would bat an eyelid when Paul wrote that but two thousand years later perception on genders and sexuality perhaps has evolved somewhat.

Would Paul write that as a cultural thing or a teaching statement?

 

[agent_grey]

I personally am thrilled when I hear of female clergy. The Christian cults are comprised of thousands of divided denominations which is in itself proof of the absence of the Holy Spirit for the majority. But how can one eliminate as many as possible from this list of Satanic cults? Things like female clergy make it very easy to eliminate a cult as just that… a cult.

 

[ChadS]

I wonder if all of this is much ado about nothing? How many Protestant ministers, whether they be male or female, actually wear a collar on a regular basis? When I was a United Methodist I think I can count on one hand the number of ministers I ever saw wearing a clerical collar, their normal Sunday dress was a shirt and tie.

I suppose this whole phenomenon may be more prevalent among Episcopalians and Anglicans.

ChadS

 

[JonNC]

I personally am thrilled when I hear of female clergy. The Christian cults are comprised of thousands of divided denominations which is in itself proof of the absence of the Holy Spirit for the majority. But how can one eliminate as many as possible from this list of Satanic cults? Things like female clergy make it very easy to eliminate a cult as just that… a cult.

Would you like to specifically identify which Christian communions are cults? You know, for the record.

Jon

 

[dzheremi]

Rampant “me too”-ism. Not befitting of servants of God. You want to serve God, then serve God and don’t make it all about you. I have yet to see one of these “woman priests” who doesn’t behave like a little child playing dress-up. It is not anyone’s God-given right to be a priest (as Jharek so rightly points out, the vast majority of men are not qualified), just like it is not anyone’s God-given right to be married, be a millionaire, have perfect health, sire a large family, or fly to the moon. “Anything you can do I can do better” is not a hymn of the Church, and no true church bends to such nonsense. I am actually politically/socially probably rather left of center (at least as far as CAF is concerned, and certainly when compared to my religious outlook), but nothing agitates me more than seeing people who bring their power-struggles and politics into the house of God. Christianity has no glass ceiling but that today’s world has wrongly identified religious leadership with power and that makes some people (not just women!) covet it. When these covetous men become priests, they become really, really bad priests because they were already living defiance of God before they were ordained and old heart-habits don’t die just because you put on a collar. By that logic, women should then be happy to stay out of it altogether – since they can’t BE priests, there is (in theory) no chance for them to corrupt the priesthood as men do.

 

[JonNC]

I wonder if all of this is much ado about nothing? How many Protestant ministers, whether they be male or female, actually wear a collar on a regular basis? When I was a United Methodist I think I can count on one hand the number of ministers I ever saw wearing a clerical collar, their normal Sunday dress was a shirt and tie.

I suppose this whole phenomenon may be more prevalent among Episcopalians and Anglicans.

ChadS

Lutheran pastors wear the collar, well, at least the confessional Lutherans do.

Jon

 

[JackVk]

I don’t understand WHY women want to be priests or ministers. Ministry is a position of service, not power. The priest acts in Persona Christi. Christ is a man, and is the New Adam. Adam was a man. And if we Catholics are a bunch of misogynists, then why do we love Mary so much?

 

[SteveVH]

I personally am thrilled when I hear of female clergy. The Christian cults are comprised of thousands of divided denominations which is in itself proof of the absence of the Holy Spirit for the majority. But how can one eliminate as many as possible from this list of Satanic cults? Things like female clergy make it very easy to eliminate a cult as just that… a cult.

Your personal preoccupation with “Satanic cults” is not helpful in any discussion. You need to read the Catechism. We consider non-Catholic Christians to be our brothers and sisters in the Lord, not satanic cultists. This is not the first thread in which you have made such a reference. If I believed Catholics actually held this opinion of non-Catholic Christians it would be the last Church I would consider joining. Knowing this is not the case I would just advise our brothers and sisters in Christ to put you on ignore.

 

[Harpazo]

I wasn’t sure where to put this topic but it seemed to fit here I guess.

Anyway, I was walking through the shopping mall recently and saw a woman wearing a Roman collar and walking with a Bible and I remembered that my local Anglican church has a female Vicar (think thats what they call her, maybe Reverend). I must admit, I was taken aback and felt… odd. It made me feel odd because, well, the Priesthood is what it is and a woman attempting to fill that role is unnatural. I don’t know if that makes sense.

This is besides those female clergy who are openly lesbian and have partners. I remember watching an American show with 2 female vicars who were married lesbians and one shot of them had them up on the altar with bread and wine and it gave me the chills.

Oh, of course it’s unnatural (though they wouldn’t see it as that). But there is not any monolithic organization called “Protestantism” which makes it very tricky when dealing with them because you cannot generalize. You almost have to treat every denomination as a different religion. Even within the denomination there could be a variety of tolerated beliefs and practice that to more traditionally inclined Christians would seem nutty.

I don’t even discuss it with my parents anymore (who are Methodists, a denomination that has ordained females), because their church is not too big on keeping apostolic traditions, though I don’t recognize those outside of my Church as having a priesthood anyway.

In Christ,
Andrew

 

[PeaceSerenity]

I recall being a little girl in the Catholic Church and wishing I could be a priest when I grew up - after all, the apostolic letters mention female deacons, and it is safe to assume that this covered a priest-like position. I believe personally that the only reason for Jesus not appointing female apostles was that back then, women were not respected enough to have any kind of influence on the world around them. I am glad, if anything, that this is slowly changing.

I don’t think the existence of make-only priests is disrespectful to women, just that it is consistent with the teachings of the Bible both in the NT and OT. Women and men have different roles before God. The Theotokos, for example, is considered more honorable than the angels, let alone the apostles, so I don’t see any disrespect towards holy women in the church. We serve God by doing His will not changing the rules. And since when is Christianity PC anyways? If God wanted female priests, he would have made that clear even if it went against social standards.

Ah yes, the deaconesses. They stopped ordaining women as deaconesses because they wanted to be priests. The glory of ambition and feminism.

PeaceSerenity

 

[JohnnyReb]

I wonder if all of this is much ado about nothing? How many Protestant ministers, whether they be male or female, actually wear a collar on a regular basis? When I was a United Methodist I think I can count on one hand the number of ministers I ever saw wearing a clerical collar, their normal Sunday dress was a shirt and tie.

I suppose this whole phenomenon may be more prevalent among Episcopalians and Anglicans.

ChadS

I do believe the clerical collar has its origins in the Anglican church anyway. I would have to look that up to be sure though. It is so widely associated with Roman clergy that it has somehow been seen as something that is theirs.

 

[JohnnyReb]

I don’t understand WHY women want to be priests or ministers. Ministry is a position of service, not power. The priest acts in Persona Christi. Christ is a man, and is the New Adam. Adam was a man. And if we Catholics are a bunch of misogynists, then why do we love Mary so much?

Just to play devils advocate here for one second, do you deny the possibility that Christ could have been incarnate as women? If women cannot act in the persona christi, what does that say about women being made in the image of God?

 

[dzheremi]

Not a very good argument, there. “Christ COULD have xyz!” Yeah, and He wasn’t/didn’t. Respect His prerogatives as God.

 

[Harpazo]

Not a very good argument, there. “Christ COULD have xyz!” Yeah, and He wasn’t/didn’t. Respect His prerogatives as God.

Exactly! This line of thinking that you aptly pointed out made me question the various new beliefs and practices that arose from Protestant sectarians. Christ could have built a spaceship or a skyscraper or anything (He did have carpenter training after all ), but He did the will of the Father. Should we not try to conform ourselves to that, instead of our own whims? All these innovations from the Protestants made me run to Christianity with substance and purpose. I pray more people wake up to realize this.

In Christ,
Andrew

 

[JohnnyReb]

Not a very good argument, there. “Christ COULD have xyz!” Yeah, and He wasn’t/didn’t. Respect His prerogatives as God.

That doesn’t answer anything, its avoiding the question. Don’t assume I support women’s ordination, but I would like to hear and honest and solid answer to the arguement.