No, they don’t, not in the sense that they can have an effect if you don’t submit to them. I believe that Santeristas and Voodooist exist because I see them. I don’t believe that they can do what they claim to do. I know that some people do believe it and it seems to have an effect on them. And yes, I do believe in demons and demonic possession and the power of the Church to exorcise them.
You believe in Santeristas and Voodooists because you see them? Well there are many more dark, occult practices that you do not see but do exist. And you believe in demons and demonic possession? Well, then, you believe in magic! Grab your copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church and read over paragraphs 2115-2117 and 2138. I’m going to type paragraph 2117 here for quick reference for everyone (who I’m sure will go read the other sections as soon as they can
) My comments will be in parentheses and are not part of the Catechism:
Absolute bilge (your argument, not you) as far as HP goes, because it is a FANTASY, a story. The Church doesn’t condemn fantasy. Also, I’m quite aware of the danger you speak of. That’s why I do not read horoscopes, nor consult mediums, or buy charms. My point is that if you don’t submit to them, I don’t believe that they have power over you. I don’t believe that if someone becomes angry with me, for instance, and casts a spell “over” me that it will have any effect on my because I don’t believe it has power over me. It might be different for a Santerista or Voo-dooist, since they’ve bought in and submitted to it. I taught for 11 years on the Navajo reservation. Once, one of my girls came to school in near hysterics because her father had found an owl feather in his pickup truck. The owl is an omen of evil to the Navajo. Now, does that mean that an effectual curse had been placed on this child’s father? I think not. We weren’t permitted to take our children outside to witness a solar eclipse, another evil omen. If we had, would anything effectual have happened? Of course not! The girls weren’t permitted (the girls from traditional families, at least) to play with balls because it was believed that their breasts would grow too large and unwieldy. Would that have happened? No! Could all of this have been pulled together to make an interesting fictional story? Possibly. I’ve no patience for people afraid of fiction. See below for more on HP:
Sorry, John.
Since when was I arguing about the Pope’s opinion of the books? All I stated was that magic is real, talking animals not. Even if a witch can’t fly on a broom, according to the CCC, if she attepts to “tame occult powers” then she is practicing magic. It’s real. That is the point I am making.
I didn’t find it at all convincing (and the author seems to be a bit of an intellectual lightweight, but then Envoy can hardly claim to be one of the more intellectual Catholic journals available to the faithful). It’s a work of fiction, a fantasy, and most children (indeed, all of my aquaintance) know it to be such. People are looking for something to bother themselves over.Since when was I arguing about the Pope’s opinion of the books? All I stated was that magic is real, talking animals not. Even if a witch can’t fly on a broom, according to the CCC, if she attepts to “tame occult powers” then she is practicing magic. It’s real. That is the point I am making.
By the way, did you read the article in Envoy Magazine that I mentioned above? envoymagazine.com/harrypotter.htm
I know it is long, but there are numerous reasons there to question the choice of Harry Potter for one’s children. Question, not ban
Sorry John, as you remember from our discussion of liturgical dance, I can get quite “het up.”
Let’s take this outside
Ok, John, no, I’m not seeing the movie.
I DID!!! It still doesn’t detract fromt the fact that it’s a WORK OF FICTION and no more harmful that any other fairy tale (Snow White, Cinderella, etc.). AND the author of your article moves from a relatively benign tone of voice to end in the tones of a Baptist preacher, you can hear the absolute jingoism in her assertion that the part about drinking the blood of the dead unicorn is a slap in the face to Catholics as it’s supposedly a slur on our reception of the Most Precious Blood of Our Lord. I find her entirely unconvincing and disingenous.Let’s take this outside
P.S. JKirkLVNV, you easily call these arguments “unconvincing” but you don’t support your assertions. If you read the article, you would see that they are solid, referenced examples right out of the books (book and page numbers right there for you to check). What did you find intellectually lightweight about it? The fact that they didn’t agree with you? What else is there to prove? All I can say is read the article envoymagazine.com/harrypotter.htm which is well written, supported, and poses valid reasons to question HP.
I am out of this discussion and am leaving it free for people to discuss whether or not they’re seeing the movie.
You know, I had totally forgotten about that debate until you mentioned it, so I just went back and looked. I think we both got pretty “het up” on that one, LOL.
But everyone knows that Christ Jesus is the Unicorn of the Lord. The symbolism is obvious to anyone who squints hard enough.
CatholicSam said:
FaithGiant Acquires EnvoyMagazine - FaithGiant
A leader in the Christian website industry, FaithGiant.com acquires Rediscovering the Bible last May 9, 2024.www.envoymagazine.com
Nope, I don’t have the slightest inclination to read or watch Harry Potter, and neither does my husband. People with no experience in the occult generally do not see the problem with these novels because there are so many more charming, innocent details. However, according to this article in Envoy, reading these books touches the “occult fingerprint” of people who were involved. This causes their souls to be troubled in a supernatural way. Why have your soul touched in an occult way for the sake of entertainment? And by the way, rocklobster, I don’t really take delight in reading about murder either. I have stopped reading many a secular book because it troubled my soul/heart with graphic violence, immorality, and/or foul language, even though the story was incredibly interesting. I found myself feeling distressed even after I put the book down and knew that it wasn’t good for my soul. You have to have the strenght to put it down (or in the case of movies, turn them off).
Be careful of what you put into your soul